Lights of Winter - EPCOT archway ??

If the lights were still working I don't see the big deal to keep them going. If it's not broke don't fix or get it removed. Why? oh why? Just because it was old technology. That's not enough reason for me.

Luckily, I was there last year. I did video in HD for about a half hour there; so, I have a wonderful rememberance.
 
If Osborne can have technology to do it at DHS and Disney can create tech heavy rides, you'd think it could be done.. ibet its just pressure to get people to go to DHS instead..
 
Everyone else here is doing basically the same thing. Getting all mad at Disney for taking away a show and then speculating on what the "real" reasons are and then using that to spiral into yet another conversation about how Bob Iger makes $30 million a year. No substance there at all either. But yet I get yelled at for posting an opposite opinion. Sheesh indeed! ;)

:earsboy:

**
Hi WDSearcher!

I wasn't yelling at you, to the contrare. I just think some Disney apologist don't grasp the big picture. I'm not saying you are one of them, but some here just don't see the light. If they took away a huge light display, in this case Lights of Winter they should replace it with something very similar or better. I think this is just one of the many hits we as consumers are feeling when we go to Disney. People are really getting quite angry about not only this display but other cuts that Disney has been doing. Some of the magic is surely disappearing. That's all.

Brunette :flower3:
 
Her is a copy of my 2nd posting as to why my initial post was deleted. Now to wait and see if it gets deleted!
"I would like to ask why my post from yesterday was deleted. As a Disney Stock Holder, which I mentioned in my post, I am infuriated that you would delete my post which was nothing but expressing my displeasure in the decision to remove the Light of Winter display. Now, give me a reason to not sell off my Disney Stocks!"

Well, well, well! Guess what? This posting was, also, deleted!! I guess now I just need to sell off my Disney Stock and cancel my trip since they don't have enough respect for their guests to listen to any negative criticism! :mad:
 

Well, well, well! Guess what? This posting was, also, deleted!! I guess now I just need to sell off my Disney Stock and cancel my trip since they don't have enough respect for their guests to listen to any negative criticism! :mad:


I suspect they are discovering the down side of offering a public forum. As I often say (from a silly skating movie)......TOE PICK!
 
OK ... let's look at what was happening six months ago. Hmmmm. Huge economic downturn. Attendance down. Disney scrambling to get people in the parks. Massive lay-offs company-wide. Huge discounting measures. Restructuring company-wide. Yes ... I can see how testing and restesting Christmas lights would have been a top priority.

I'm thinking that, when they came down last year, someone said "Hey -- we need to check the tech on these for next year". And the response was, "Great -- we'll do that in July." Then all of the above happened. For all we know, the guys who managed, teched and ran the LOW last year don't even WORK for WDW any more. They may have been among the lay-offs. And with all the other cost-cutting, it's conceivable that Disney said, "You're going to have to get rid of something at Epcot this Christmas ... decide." And the PTB said, "You know ... the LOW tech is basically obsolete and will be expensive to change, so let's just bag it for this year and work on it next year when there's money."

The castle lights were all converted (at great expense, likely) to LED last year, so they're a whole different animal. But I can guarantee you that they, too, have a shelf life, and a time will come when Disney will decide that the "sparkling Christmas ice lights" will have completed their run and they will go away and be replaced (or not) with something new. Every show at Disney has a lifespan. And, while you may say, "You've got plenty of money to spend on a new Fantasyland, but you take away my Christmas lights!", that's apples to oranges. It's comparing a huge capital project that will be paid for over several years to a small holiday event that needs money NOW. The two things aren't paid for from the same budget.

It's perfectly cool and fine to express disappointment about a favorite show or attraction going away, but the prevailing attitude here isn't "Oh ... I'm going to miss my favorite show", or "I'm so upset that my favorite show is going away!", or "Dear Disney -- please bring back my favorite holiday tradition" ... it's, "Those stupid money-grubbing people at Disney keep cutting everything to save a buck." There's virtually no understanding of the bigger picture.

:earsboy:
I do 'get the bigger picture'....I just don't particularly believe Disney's reason for discontinuing the LoW. Nothing about money grubbing. I understand that it is a business. And I realize how the economy is...I have had to make cuts as well. But Disney could be shooting itself in the foot by taking many things away yet raising prices. Sure, we get free dining or discounted rooms...have to tell you, those things don't much matter to those of us with APs and that own DVC. But, it's this group of guests that seem to bear the brunt of a lot of the cuts.

I think alot of us--don't want to speak for everyone-- just see alot of take away and not much give back, thats all. I know they've offered discounts, but at the same time they have raised prices on other things at the same time. Examples being stroller rental, ticket prices, parking, dining plan price has shot up while appetizers and tips have been taken away. Shorter park hours, more parties--at a substantially higher price--etc. It just doesn't seem we are getting the same bang for our buck that we were. I still love the place, and am returning in 3 weeks, but its getting harder and harder to justify our multiple trips anymore.
I have to agree. I used to go down about 3 times a year. Looks like my trip in two weeks may be the last one for a bit....just can't justify the constantly increasing costs. And add to that the free dining that's continually offered, which I don't take advantage of since I own DVC (yes I know I can but I pay to stay DVC), so dining is a nightmare whenever I seem to go...at least it was in August and who knows what it's going to be like in two weeks.
Disney is just taking away a lot of the magic from my trips.
 
There is a common misconception that Universal is all about thrill rides. They have 3 coasters, and I suppose you could kinda call The Mummy a coaster, but it's certainly much more technological than that. MIB, Shrek 4D, Spiderman, the Simpsons aren't thrill rides under any stretch, and Disney still doesn't have anything close to any of them. The ride portion of HP is absolutely new, so I'm not sure where you're getting your information. As a matter of fact, that is the primary reason for the recent Sum of all Thrills addition to Epcot, though what will be done in HP will be far more complex..
Sorry ... forgot the one new ride. I was talking about the reworked Unicorn ride and the Dueling Dragons rides and the "new" wand dark show. Apologies. (Although, I consideer Spiderman and the Simpsons to be thrill rides, and I include the flumes in my "coaster count". I should have been clear on that.)

I think the perception among guests (and certainly within Universal, if you're to believe their advertising) is that Universal is, indeed, the "Thrill Park" and is "all about coasters." Even on the DIS, people say, "if you want roller coasters, go to Universal; Disney is different." While in reality, they should be saying, "if you want coasters, go to Busch Gardens." Still ... Universal is always saying things like "when you get tired of pixie dust and fairies, come to universal for something different" and then they show pictures of Hulk and RRR and Spiderman and the other thrill elements. So I do think that Universal very much markets itself as a "roller coaster park."

Again, they haven't been making the kind of noticeable cuts (Night before Christmas, Fantasmic, LOW, etc.) that Disney has, but originally you were the one that brought Universal into this discussion. I only pointed out that Universal has been doing a much better job of adding, renovating, and building superior rides over the past decade (Disney has had that long to come up with something to match Spiderman, and they haven't come close).
Or ... Disney didn't WANT to come up with something to match Spiderman, because people would have claimed just that: "Oh ... Disney's copying Universal and putting in a ride just like Spiderman." Universal still wins. Why would Disney purposely do that with a competitor? Instead, in 1999 (when Spiderman opened), Disney gave us a new drop sequence at TOT, Test Track, Kali River Rapids, Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, and Rock 'n' Roller Coaster. That was how they "matched" Spiderman. But none of those, apparently, count.

As far as Night Before Christmas goes, I would counter that Disney did not "cut" Night Before Christmas. They closed it and replaced it with something else. You may not LIKE the something else it was replaced with, but it's unfair to say it was a cut. Disney put time, money and work into a new show to replace one that went away when it's performing location went away.

Fantasmic! shows were cut, yes, just as Universal is making entertainment cuts. They may not be as visible, but then ... it's different product. They don't have several nightly fireworks shows that they're supporting along with several daily parades and large stage shows. So they don't have as many big-ticket items. They did cut "Fear Factor" comletely, which was a large-capacity show, albiet not as popular as Fant! But still, they had decent audiences all day long. Universal didn't reduce the show schedule or replace it with anything. They cut it. But ... people didn't really love that show, so no one complains when it goes away.

LOW is, indeed, a cut. No argument there. :thumbsup2

I'm not sure what you're including in your "etc.", but have noticed that people say things like, "And they cut Fantasmic, LOW, etc.," as if that "etc." includes hundreds of other items too massive to list. But it's pretty squishy logic without knowing what you consider to be "etc."

Disney is only going to be able to cut so much before enough people start spending their dollars elsewhere. After the way they changed the 4/3 deal to slap AP holders like myself in the face, I'll not be renewing mine next year. That is another area where Universal has been outperforming Disney, they treat their AP holders much better than Disney.
Then yes, you SHOULD renew at Universal and not Disney. And when you do that, write Disney a letter and explain to them why. If you just don't renew, Disney won't notice. It'll get written off as normal attrition. You want to get your point across, write them a letter, send them your old AP, and explain to them why you're not renewing. THAT is what gets their attention.

:earsboy:
 
/
If the lights were still working I don't see the big deal to keep them going. If it's not broke don't fix or get it removed. Why? oh why? Just because it was old technology. That's not enough reason for me.

Luckily, I was there last year. I did video in HD for about a half hour there; so, I have a wonderful rememberance.

The way I see it, it is just another money cut. I do not get it, Disney increase prices, parks are packed and stil they cut, what is going on:confused3
 
OK so the Lights of Winter was obsolete technology and yet, as I understand it they still run that elderly Electrical Water "Pageant"? Pretty sure the technology for that one is on a par with Lite Brites, the childrens toy. :confused3

Lite Brites are still in the stores this Christmas, no? ;)

:earsboy:
 
In response to the "money where their mouth is"....WDW profit is down. Why? Because Disney is giving it away with Discounts in despearation to put heads in beds. If they didn't desperately discount, those little playgrounds for children of any age would be far more empty.

As more of those "rose colored glasses" are knocked off the bridge of our noses.....Disney may find the discounts don't work as well as they did in the "good ole days of 2009".

Disney certainly is no longer the experience it once was - as recently as 5 years ago. Everyone has a limit. Lights of Winter may not be a biggie to some...but to others, it may be the final staw for those glasses.

Disney cannot afford to loose us - ANY of us - it's most loyal guests. They ARE, however, doing the very best they can to test how far they can go before we begin to look elsewhere.
But if you want to stop it from happening, STOP GOING TO WDW! You (not you, specifically, but the collective "you") complain and moan and grouse and complain some more about how Disney is no longer the experience it once was, and then you head off to plan your next trip.

It's like constantly yelling at your kids for missing curfew and then not grounding them. It teaches them nothing. But you know ... Disney tosses a deal at you (again, the collective "you"), and everyone jumps to book their room and their free dining and their BBB appointments and their fireworks cruises. And then they complain and moan and grouse about how Disney is slipping.

It's kind of a remarkable phenomenon, if you think about it.

:earsboy:
 
**
Hi WDSearcher!

I wasn't yelling at you, to the contrare. I just think some Disney apologist don't grasp the big picture. I'm not saying you are one of them, but some here just don't see the light. If they took away a huge light display, in this case Lights of Winter they should replace it with something very similar or better. I think this is just one of the many hits we as consumers are feeling when we go to Disney. People are really getting quite angry about not only this display but other cuts that Disney has been doing. Some of the magic is surely disappearing. That's all.

Brunette :flower3:
OK. :thumbsup2

I totally agree, by the way, that if Disney is taking away LOW, they should replace it with something equitable.

:earsboy:
 
Well, well, well! Guess what? This posting was, also, deleted!! I guess now I just need to sell off my Disney Stock and cancel my trip since they don't have enough respect for their guests to listen to any negative criticism! :mad:
Was it posted and then deleted, or did it never make it to post? Is it possible that all the recent traffic is slowing down the approval / posting process?

I'm sorry you'll be cancelling your trip. Looks like you leave in just over a month ... are you within the cancellation window or will you end up losing the money paid in? Because if you cancel the trip, but don't get the money back, it's kind of a moot reaction, isn't it? They still get your money, but don't have to provide you with anything in return. Which, oddly, is kind of what you're mad at them for now ... :confused3

:earsboy:
 
The WALT DISNEY COMPANY made money this year, due mostly to the strength of the film division, which is currently helping bail out the theme park division. If you read past the big huge profit number (which is somehow where everyone stops reading and gets mad), you'll see this:

Disney's theme-park division, which accounts for about 30% of overall revenue, saw a 17% drop in profit as revenue slid 4.2%.

So while the company might be doing well, the theme park division is not. And the theme park division supplies a third of the company's revenue. So ... while theme parks can certainly be bailed out by other divisions, it's inaccurate to say that all the cost savings and cuts that Disney has been making in its theme parks are unwarranted. The division has to be able to make its own budget in order to survive. It can't depend on the other divisions to keep bailing it out.

:earsboy:

Bailing it out? They are still making a ton of money, even with a drop in profit. Parks & Resorts made $344 million in the last quarter, it was announced yesterday on revenue of 2.8 billion. That's for 3 months! Yes, it's down 17% but they are hardly losing money.

There's the old saying "you have to spend money to make money". You can't keep diluting the product and expect to make money.
 
I guess I'm in the minority but I never really cared for them all that much.
I hated the lighting ceremony because it created a huge bottleneck crowd of people that you were stuck in or had to go completely around on the side walkways.
I also thought it took away from the view of the tree.
 
I guess I'm in the minority but I never really cared for them all that much.
I hated the lighting ceremony because it created a huge bottleneck crowd of people that you were stuck in or had to go completely around on the side walkways.
I also thought it took away from the view of the tree.

I saw the tree Wednesday -- it looks pretty lonely sitting there this year.

Liz
 
Universal has really good rides and yes some even better then at Disney. Yet I love Disney more due to all the magic. However lets not forget it cost much more. 7 day tickets will be around $250(base ticket) plus taxes will be around $800 for 3 of us. At Universal I can have 7days for $350(including taxes) for 3. Therefore I pay extra $450 for magic and if it's gone then what is the reason. Cuts are all over the parks, less CMs, less training of CMs, less food, less shows, cuts in fireworks, increase of prices... I still go but have less fun then before. If they cut Wishes or Illuminations, that will be it for us. As for holiday lights, many people plan vacations around holidays to see decorations and lights and it will bite Disney back. As for Universal, trill does not mean roller coaster, almost every ride at Universal is a trill ride but they are also a family rides as well and Disney does have rollercoasters and trill rides as well but the problem they are spread all over 4 parks.
 
Bailing it out? They are still making a ton of money, even with a drop in profit. Parks & Resorts made $344 million in the last quarter, it was announced yesterday on revenue of 2.8 billion. That's for 3 months! Yes, it's down 17% but they are hardly losing money.

There's the old saying "you have to spend money to make money". You can't keep diluting the product and expect to make money.

They may not loosing money yet, still 17% is a lot. Basically it is a warning that something needs to be done fast or it will lead to more cuts. Yet cutting in parks will not bring more people esp. with Harry Potter in Universal and generally lots of other attractions in area. IMO, new rides and attactions take years to build and will bring profit in a future but what about now. They need to come out with some services, something new and something that they can do already, like ME was the most brilliant idea ever.
 
I notice that many of the people that defend Disney's actions live in or near the area and have probably seen these things many,many times over the years and don't realize how disappointing it is to those of us who scrimp and save and journey from sometimes great distances. We all take for granted things in our own areas that seem like a big deal to visitors but are ho- hum to us. These people are also beneficiaries of the economic impact the parks bring to their area and are advocates and rightfully so. For many of us we're looking for a bit of nostalgia and perhaps something that brought a smile to our face when we were younger and just trying to recapture the "magic".
 
I notice that many of the people that defend Disney's actions live in or near the area and have probably seen these things many,many times over the years and don't realize how disappointing it is to those of us who scrimp and save and journey from sometimes great distances. We all take for granted things in our own areas that seem like a big deal to visitors but are ho- hum to us. These people are also beneficiaries of the economic impact the parks bring to their area and are advocates and rightfully so. For many of us we're looking for a bit of nostalgia and perhaps something that brought a smile to our face when we were younger and just trying to recapture the "magic".
True, and some people here are also CMs and take some comments personally sometimes, due to being part of Disney although deep down I am sure they know that Disney standarts went down unfortunately:sad1:.
 

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