Leverage: anyone considering SSR purchase:

[lenshanem]

Regarding the HA room, did you specifically request non-HA?

Yes.
We arrived very late at OKW, though and were not able to be moved. Course, this was after they told us it wasn't HA, TWICE.

Regarding the smoking room, it sounds to me like the resort just made a mistake. They rectified the problem, correct?

Yes.
VWL was great, but then again we arrived early enough to be moved. We had been preassigned to a smoking room.

We've seen guests sent to rooms occupied by other guests...

Actually, they almost did this to us at VWL! She started to put us in another room and then another CM came over and said you can't, someone is already in there! OPPS!

 

[TCPluto]

As for the "guilt trips" - I'm ignoring those unfounded comments from now on. It is obvious some don't want to move on and want to continue to argue instead. They can waste their own time, I've got more important things to do then defending myself on such ridiculous insults over and over again. I'll reply to those posts that are on the OP's topic.

Again, these are unfounded because they don't fit into your understanding of reality, "I'm the center of the universe, I will define all things".

Remember how mad you got when you thought I and others were asking you to keep the smoking room for your asthamatic child? Remember how mad you got when you thought I called you a liar, when what I was saying was that if we made lying illegal it would solve our problems (no reference to any one person?

Well, your feelings are completely invalid and should be dismissed, they don't count. Wait, I think they do count to you, as they should.

But I agree, let's just dismiss everyone else's feelings (when they do'nt fit with yours).

 

[crisi]

ughh, I think this is the last time I reply to these misinformed , dont bother to read the posts, look for something to argue about replies.

It has nothing to do with with the people themselves who need HA rooms just the same as it has nothing to do with the people themselves who need a smoking room, these rooms are each designed for a specific purpose. We are talking about the rooms, rooms, rooms, rooms, not the people.

do i need to outfit my entire house with handicap accesibility just to show respect for handicapped people? when i look for my next home should i tell the agent to bring me to a HA house so i can show my respect for handicapped people by buying that one instead of one that better suites my needs.

jeesh

so

Way to completely invalidate the feelings of others! With this sort of sensitivity, its no wonder that the handicapped people think you might be attacking them.

For someone who is unable to walk, or has a child who is unable to walk, complaining about low beds and not having a tub seems petty and small. They would LOVE to not need that HA room. They would love it if no one needed HA rooms. Unfortunately, they live with the reality every day that this is not the case. When you complain about the room, you sound like you can't appreciate one thing you have that they can't have. And that makes it about them, even if that is not your intent.

I have friends who grew up very poor and friends who grew up very wealthy. In high school one of the wealthy friends complained to the poor friends about the Mustang he was given for a birthday present. It wasn't the right color, he really wanted a different car. The complaint was about the car....but it was really an offensive complaint to the audience which contained kids who wore second hand clothes.

Perhaps this is not the appropriate forum for your complaints, since there are obviously people here who cannot seperate your distaste for the system from your distaste from handicapped rooms - and feel that their existance might be inconviencing you, which is offensive to them. This may not be what you are trying to communicate, but that is what they (and others) hear - and the receiving end is as important as the sending end in successful communication. I really recommend you take this up with DVC Customer Satisfaction - who will obviously be able to give you better answers to your questions and may be able to implement changes far better than anyone here.

 

[TCPluto]

One question: Is it just me or does it seem like the ones complaining the most have the least experience with DVC? Some of them not even members yet? We've been members since 97 and have done about 15 DVC trips. Never a problem. Are we discussing an almost non-existent problem?

You know Deb, what about granting room requests by the date you joined DVC? You know, give the oldest members of a resort first choice, because it was the capital raised from their visionary investment that has made this all possible.

I like it....

 

[NMW]

I'm sorry you don't see it from the point of a person with a handicap. I tried my best to describe how the words and actions can hurt.

This is something that is real, and just because many can't understand it, doesn't make it any less real.

Are you honestly saying that anyone that does not want a HA room is being disrespectful, unsympathetic and rude to handicap people who need them? I am not trying to argue with you, I am honestly asking. I have said before on this thread it would really not matter to my family if we got a HA room. We plan to always get 1 or 2 bedrooms, so the tub thing is not even an issue. The other changes don't matter at all.
For some families though, it does matter. What about families that stay in a studio with a baby? In my experience it's pretty tough to hold a slippery 8 month old in a shower! I just don't see how them putting a non HA request on their reservation hurts handicap persons feelings. Maybe you don't either, I don't know. I realize this issue is real to you. I don't mean to offend you, I just fail to see how this ( all be it hypothetical family) would offend you.
I have said repeatedly that the only request we care about is non-smoking. I wish it was a confirmed booking category like Boardwalk view at BWV. DH and I are from northern New Jersey and now live in PA. Our area is not very smoking freindly, although it's not as bad as CA . I would not be surprised if all of FL went non-smoking. A lot of states are trying to pass these smoking bans. For us, it is a health issue, as I have stated in previous posts. So, until it becomes a guarantee or banned all together, we just will hope for the best. That's all anyone can really do anyway.

 

[TCPluto]

Are you honestly saying that anyone that does not want a HA room is being disrespectful, unsympathetic and rude to handicap people who need them?

No, I am absolutely not saying that. It's the comment's that some people make, in this thread, and other threads over the years.

To say "I don't care for the soup" or "I don't want the soup", is far different from " This soup tastes like s---". The cook would likely be offended by the last and not the first two comments.


The comments of some relay the message that as another poster stated, "the handicapped are ok, as long as they don't get in my way or impede on my vacation".

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Let's start with being a kind, considerate, sympathetic adult, then we'll build on that.

the thing that is funniest is I have lived with a handicapped person and I have just as much respect for them as anyone esle in life. I wasnt going to bring it up but apparently you will just not see another persons point of view unless they are in your exact situation.


IT HAS NOTHING TO DUE WITH HANDICAPPED PEOPLE!

how much clearer does it need to be stated.

so go ahead keep posting the same ole thing over and over and try to convince yourself that everyone has it in for handicapped people

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Way to completely invalidate the feelings of others! With this sort of sensitivity, its no wonder that the handicapped people think you might be attacking them.

For someone who is unable to walk, or has a child who is unable to walk, complaining about low beds and not having a tub seems petty and small. They would LOVE to not need that HA room. They would love it if no one needed HA rooms. Unfortunately, they live with the reality every day that this is not the case. When you complain about the room, you sound like you can't appreciate one thing you have that they can't have. And that makes it about them, even if that is not your intent.

I have friends who grew up very poor and friends who grew up very wealthy. In high school one of the wealthy friends complained to the poor friends about the Mustang he was given for a birthday present. It wasn't the right color, he really wanted a different car. The complaint was about the car....but it was really an offensive complaint to the audience which contained kids who wore second hand clothes.

Perhaps this is not the appropriate forum for your complaints, since there are obviously people here who cannot seperate your distaste for the system from your distaste from handicapped rooms - and feel that their existance might be inconviencing you, which is offensive to them. This may not be what you are trying to communicate, but that is what they (and others) hear - and the receiving end is as important as the sending end in successful communication. I really recommend you take this up with DVC Customer Satisfaction - who will obviously be able to give you better answers to your questions and may be able to implement changes far better than anyone here.

again really not trying to rude, but have you read any of my posts. I have done what I think is right outside of this board and I have stated that on more than one occasion. Im not going to get into details about it though. I dont think that means I dont need to or shouldnt post here, its 2 completely different things

Also, the inability for some to not be able to distinguish the differnce between the dislike of handicapped people and HA room is what is frusterating.

How can the 2 be considered anywhere near the same thing. its not even close.

 

[athenna]

You know Deb, what about granting room requests by the date you joined DVC? You know, give the oldest members of a resort first choice, because it was the capital raised from their visionary investment that has made this all possible.

I like it....

Don't think the newbies would like that very much.

 

[tjkraz]

You know Deb, what about granting room requests by the date you joined DVC? You know, give the oldest members of a resort first choice, because it was the capital raised from their visionary investment that has made this all possible.

Probably wouldn't work...at least not they way you intend. DVC tracks their information by the contract ID rather than by the owner of the contract. A member who buys and OKW resale TODAY will get an ID card that says "Member Since December 1992", or whatever date the contract was originally created.

And, remember that DVC/DVD have a very big desire to continue selling new contracts. They aren't going to take any actions that would devalue future contracts in favor of older contracts.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

The comments of some relay the message that as another poster stated, "the handicapped are ok, as long as they don't get in my way or impede on my vacation".

show me one post, ever, that would imply this is what someone meant. I have never seen one.

 

[TCPluto]

I realize this issue is real to you. I don't mean to offend you, I just fail to see how this ( all be it hypothetical family) would offend you.

The problem is, it's not all hypothetical.

Imagine this true scenario. You're standing behind us at check in. In front of us is a family, who are arguing loudly about the H/A room which they just got assigned. They are pointing out all of the flaws of the room and how inadequate it is. The cast member tries to explain that these rooms are required and that, unfortunately, this is all that is available to meet their BWV standard view request.

The couple becomes angrier and more vociferious. Our family, including my 10 year old in her power chair are forced to listen to this. The cast member gives us an embarrassed look. The wife follows her gaze, looks down her nose with an utter expression of contempt at my daughter.

The message we received: but for people like us, this wouldn't be happening to them and their vacation. We have infringed on their rights to a perfect vacation, because the resort has to accommodate the likes of us.

If it were me that needed the H/A, I think it would have had less of an effect. But to intentionally, or unintentionally, belittle someones else's special needs is quite horrible.


Like someone else has said, "the handicapped are ok, just keep them away from me".

It can be the same with, fat people, black people, hispanic people, middle eastern folks, poor people, or whatever specific group you care to name. My intent was to make people aware that their words and actions can have a deletrious impact on others.

I believe that anyone who needs any combination of room reuests for legitimate medical reasons (tubs, non-smoking, H/A, whatever), should have them granted.

Somehow along the way, the message got twisted to me supporting smokers and bashing those that needed specific accommodations for medical reasons. AS a non-smoker and a father of a non-ambulatory child, nothing could be further from the truth.

I suspect that part of the problem is the BB forum, where you can't see the greatest part of the communication (non verbal ques, tone, inflection, body language, etc). Kind of ironic.

But I have experienced the unkind words and deeds of many people in regards to the less fortunate. I'm confident that I am more aware of the issues, because I live it.

 

[crisi]

You don't need to say that for that to be what is heard. Apparently you don't understand connotation and can take everything literally. Most people can't do that. Most people can't seperate their needs and wants from themselves (ever been in a discussion about guns with gun owners and anti gun people? how about SUVs between environmentalists and SUV drivers?)

People have come out in these threads and used words like "unacceptable" and "inferior" to describe the rooms. That is very different than "I would really prefer to stay in a non-HA room." I've said that about a dozen times over the past two months - they aren't ideal for our family. But I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that I'm coming across as insenstive when I say that. But before I condemn the situation as unacceptable, I want to know what the alternatives are, and what the alternatives are going to cost. Because, while I rather not stay in a HA room, it isn't worth a surcharge of $5 a point to retrofit those rooms with HA accessible tubs to me. It isn't even worth $.10 a point to make changes to the reservation system. And of course, those numbers are completely made up - maybe its a lot more or less expensive.

 

[TCPluto]

Probably wouldn't work...at least not they way you intend.

Sorry T, I was being facetious!!

I should have inserted some smily faces, but I detest them. Ok, Ok, I was joking again, I don't hate them!

 

[sjdisneywedding]

The problem is, it's not all hypothetical.

Imagine this true scenario. You're standing behind us at check in. In front of us is a family, who are arguing loudly about the H/A room which they just got assigned. They are pointing out all of the flaws of the room and how inadequate it is. The cast member tries to explain that these rooms are required and that, unfortunately, this is all that is available to meet their BWV standard view request.

The couple becomes angrier and more vociferious. Our family, including my 10 year old in her power chair are forced to listen to this. The cast member gives us an embarrassed look. The wife follows her gaze, looks down her nose with an utter expression of contempt at my daughter.

The message we received: but for people like us, this wouldn't be happening to them and their vacation. We have infringed on their rights to a perfect vacation, because the resort has to accommodate the likes of us.

If it were me that needed the H/A, I think it would have had less of an effect. But to intentionally, or unintentionally, belittle someones else's special needs is quite horrible.


Like someone else has said, "the handicapped are ok, just keep them away from me".

It can be the same with, fat people, black people, hispanic people, middle eastern folks, poor people, or whatever specific group you care to name. My intent was to make people aware that their words and actions can have a deletrious impact on others.

I believe that anyone who needs any combination of room reuests for legitimate medical reasons (tubs, non-smoking, H/A, whatever), should have them granted.

Somehow along the way, the message got twisted to me supporting smokers and bashing those that needed specific accommodations for medical reasons. AS a non-smoker and a father of a non-ambulatory child, nothing could be further from the truth.

I suspect that part of the problem is the BB forum, where you can't see the greatest part of the communication (non verbal ques, tone, inflection, body language, etc). Kind of ironic.

But I have experienced the unkind words and deeds of many people in regards to the less fortunate. I'm confident that I am more aware of the issues, because I live it.

you can have your opinion, but I think you are extremly misinformed or just reading what you want to

please read: its not that the rooms are flawed, its simply that they are designed to meet certain needs and by meeting those needs they can not meet other needs.

theres no way around it, the studios do not have a tub, some have problems with different beds, whatever the reason, I am not going to list each person specific problem.

the rooms are designed DIFFERENTLY not better not worse just different to meet different needs.

 

[lllovell]

Well, then this is probably where we have a philosophical disagreement.

If I'm standing in line at the grocery store with a full cart and someone with 2 items jumps in line behind me, I'll certainly offer to let them go ahead.

If I'm sitting on a Disney bus and a pregnant woman boards and is unable to find a seat, I'll happily give her mine.

I request a non-smoking room every time, but I would give up my room to a family with a greater need than I. Doesn't really matter to me whether the guest booked 11 mos ahead or 11 hours. If there is room at the resort and accommodating a family that otherwise wouldn't be able to make the trip means I have to take a Smoking room, I can live with that.

Rigid first-come, first-served systems have zero flexibility. Neither system is perfect, but I'll take the imperfect system with flexibility over an imperfect system with no flexibility.

Up until now I've always said that I didn't know which side of this debate I was really on. Now I know. I'll stick with the status quo: requests are guaranteed to those with a medical need and granted as-available to all others. I hate to sound corny, but I guess that's just the way I was raised.

You aren't sounding corny and I have said MANY times that I would give up my non-smoking room to someone that had a true medical request. I think these are seperate issues though. (and my son will have the sniffles and occasionaly runny eyes if we are in a smoking room, but with his allergy meds is fine so I dont really consider that a true medical need for us - but I sure would prefer him not to get the sniffles on vacation)

If we are talking about such a small percentage of people not having their requests met, then I also believe with a firm "first come" policy in place, those with medical needs would benefit the MOST. Now we have stumbled into the who really needs it area. I would ALWAYS give up my seat on a bus or try to be of assistance to others around me. Sort of the "pay it forward" way of life. Someone that doesn't need it usually would say "thanks but I am fine" and that is how it is supposed to work. BUT, in this day and age, sadly there is a MEMEMEMEMEMEME mentality in the world and I am somewhat sad to discover that I look at people sometimes and think the worst. I am thinking for most DVC members, non-smoking is not a need, simply a desire. Do we want our desires met, yep! Everyone does. However, I don't think that the general attitude of many people is that ok got a smoking room this time, must be all that was available (or let me just call and check to make sure - which I would probably do). Instead, there seems to be this trend of going back and jumping up and down and pressuring CMs until you get someone else's room. I do think that is what happens when they tell you there are no more rooms and then magically one appears. Someone else got bumped. If I don't have a medical need for a non-smoking room, then shame on ME! I have no way of knowing if the person that just got bumped really needed that room (and I don't think most would care). I do care. I would call down and make sure there were no non-smoking or non-HA rooms that I might have instead and then settle in and let it go. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Somehow you think that I am for not giving people with needs the chance to get their needs met, BUT I do believe that knowing in advance that they only had smoking left at SSR for example and that is what I booked, it would never be an issue upon arrival.

We do seem to disagree on how the rooms should be assigned, but we don't disagree on how people should be treated.


(one side note - I am not sure about Disney's "medical needs" policy, but it does seem like an area they need to clear up. THAT might help in keeping more members happy as well)

 

[TCPluto]

again really not trying to openly rude,...

I have done what I think is right outside of this board and I have stated that on more than one occasion. Im not going to get into details about it though. I dont think that means I dont need to or shouldnt post here, its 2 completely different things

Also, the inability for some to not be able to distinguish the differnce between the dislike of handicapped people and HA room is what is frusterating.

How can the 2 be considered anywhere near the same thing. its not even close.

But you're going to be rude anyway?

I don't think it's supported by therapists to tell a person that their feelings are invalid. How can you tell someone that another's comments are not hurtful? How can you dismiss what is real to another person? I don't think you can...

I think you fall into the class of people (maybe group would be a better word) who will never get it. And that's ok. Better to have tried and failed than to not have tried at all.

 

[TCPluto]

you can have your opinion, but I think you are extremly misinformed or just reading what you want to

please read: its not that the rooms are flawed, its simply that they are designed to meet certain needs and by meeting those needs they can not meet other needs.

theres no way around it, the studios do not have a tub, some have problems with different beds, whatever the reason, I am not going to list each person specific problem.

the rooms are designed DIFFERENTLY not better not worse just different to meet different needs.

From my post:

The couple becomes angrier and more vociferious. Our family, including my 10 year old in her power chair are forced to listen to this. The cast member gives us an embarrassed look. The wife follows her gaze, looks down her nose with an utter expression of contempt at my daughter.

I was not misinformed. My entire family got the message.

Maybe you are just reading what you want, ignoring the rest.

Like I said, you'll never get it. But I'm not sorry for trying...

 

[lllovell]

Its is obvious that you guys and gals have very strong feelings about the HA room sidebar that is going on here.

I, much like sj, do NOT believe that not wanting to stay in a HA room is in any way related to not wanting the rooms available so that someone who needs the room can enjoy Disney just as much as I. Nor do I believe that it has to do with any personal opinions I might have about handicapped people. It is the room - which is designed differently. It would not fit my needs (as we are a family of 4 who wants to stay in studios, but have two small children) but I could handle it if I was assigned one. Some people with small children have issues like children that are afraid of showers, crawlers that have no self control and would love to play with the stove, etc.

I also think that if you are comparing SJ (or anyone else that feels like they do) with the woman in your example, its out of line. The scene you descibed would make me sad and then angry as well. I know I dont face what your family does and I am sure you are trying to teach your daughter how to handle people in the world that somehow think she is inferior. That is a wonderful thing.

However, I think the personal emotions have climbed higher than this thread should require. There are no tone buttons here. Maybe its time to take a step back and take a deep breath for everyone.

Mickey bars on me!

 

[TCPluto]

Its is obvious that you guys and gals have very strong feelings about the HA room sidebar that is going on here.

I, much like sj, do NOT believe that not wanting to stay in a HA room is in any way related to not wanting the rooms available so that someone who needs the room can enjoy Disney just as much as I. Nor do I believe that it has to do with any personal opinions I might have about handicapped people. It is the room - which is designed differently. It would not fit my needs (as we are a family of 4 who wants to stay in studios, but have two small children) but I could handle it if I was assigned one. Some people with small children have issues like children that are afraid of showers, crawlers that have no self control and would love to play with the stove, etc.

I also think that if you are comparing SJ (or anyone else that feels like they do) with the woman in your example, its out of line. The scene you descibed would make me sad and then angry as well. I know I dont face what your family does and I am sure you are trying to teach your daughter how to handle people in the world that somehow think she is inferior. That is a wonderful thing.

However, I think the personal emotions have climbed higher than this thread should require. There are no tone buttons here. Maybe its time to take a step back and take a deep breath for everyone.

Mickey bars on me!

I see your Mickey bar and raise you one!

I agree that the H/A rooms don't work for everyone. I was trying to raise awareness about how people communicated their thoughts on the matter, and that they should be aware on how their words and emotions do affect others.

And certainly, most often, they would never intendt to hur tthe feelings of another, particularly a child. Bit I have seen it happen first hand.

I do think the likes of SJ fall into the category of "it's my world, don't you dare infringe upon it", and "I'll tell you how to think and feel". But I'm only basing this upon her discussion here.

How many times can you tell a person that you have no right to feel a certain way, that your feelings are invalid? While she, and others, have derided posters for saying the same thing, she takes free reign of the world to decide what people should feel.

On the other hand, the vast majority of people, at WDW and elsewhere, are not in this category. Thankfully.