Let's speculate about Polynesian some more!

[maui22]

Anyone else feel like this trust has turned DVC into a legal swamp?

 

[BrianLo]

I wouldn't say never. They did ROFR on some VGF contracts while it was still actively selling direct.

I do think that was a very unique circumstance. The fire sale was more successful than intended and they needed likely some niche inventory.

I should say, they never ROFR when they have very robust cheap inventory.

 

[Sandisw]

Anyone else feel like this trust has turned DVC into a legal swamp?

Not me because I am looking forward to the potential changes it could offer us as owners.

 

[maui22]

I don't know the significance, or if there even is any significance, but .... the original 14 properties have their respective condo association listed as the managing entity under the timeshare project license. However, ... Riviera, CFW, and VDH are all listed as having MA71848 Disney Vacation Club Management LLC as their managing entity. Why were those three properties different?

View attachment 842450

Wouldn’t the tower have to be part of this management entity if it was to be part of the trust? After all, CFW (aka, trust as of right now) is part of it.

 

[Cabius]

The thrill of excitement when you see an email from Disney Vacation Club with the subject preview "NOW ON SALE"

The crash of disappointment when you open it and the full subject reads, "NOW ON SALE... The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort!"

 

[maui22]

The thrill of excitement when you see an email from Disney Vacation Club with the subject preview "NOW ON SALE"

The crash of disappointment when you open it and the full subject reads, "NOW ON SALE... The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort!"

For a price of per point. With dues that will make you every December/January.

 

[Genie+]

I’ve received 3 mailings about the cabins so far. All in my name. None in DH’s name even though our direct membership was paid out of his accounts Guess they figured out which one of us is the DVC head!

 

[eticketplease]

I’ve received 3 mailings about the cabins so far. All in my name. None in DH’s name even though our direct membership was paid out of his accounts Guess they figured out which one of us is the DVC head!

At least they know your names. We just received one mailing that I know about for the cabins and it was addressed to Vacation Club owner or something similar

 

[FFMickey]

I’ve received 3 mailings about the cabins so far. All in my name. None in DH’s name even though our direct membership was paid out of his accounts Guess they figured out which one of us is the DVC head!

I haven't figured out DVC marketing. It seems like all the promotional mailers go out to DW's name. None get addressed to me, even though I am primary on both contracts and handle everything related to DVC and Disney. However, those dues statements are definitely addressed to me....

 

[Cabius]

For a price of per point. With dues that will make you every December/January.

I actually don't think the CFW dues are too bad.

Yes, the price per point is awful, and as a result the points are terrible value as SAP.

But the point chart is pretty low, so you end up not needing to buy as many points as you would for equivalent accommodations elsewhere. That lowers your up-front costs and your actual annual dues bill.

"equivalent accommodations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, though; so much depends on whether you value CFW at Studio or 1BR rates.

If I look at one week in January, that's 118 points, or $1434 in dues, or just over $200/night.

If I compare that to the dues cost at other DVC resorts, that's about 20%-50% more than you'd pay in dues for a Studio, but quite a bit less than you'd pay for a 1BR.

Resort	Room	Points	Dues	Dues Cost	Difference
SSR	Studio (S)	90​	$ 8.1388	$ 732.49	-49%​
BLT	Studio (S)	109​	$ 7.5902	$ 827.33	-43%​
BRV	Studio (S)	107​	$ 8.6790	$ 928.65	-46%​
VGF	Studio (S)	125​	$ 7.5740	$ 946.75	-66%​
RIV	Studio (S)	116​	$ 8.8508	$ 1,026.69	-70%​
PVB	Studio (S)	125​	$ 8.2301	$ 1,028.76	-81%​
CFW	Cabin	118​	$ 12.1542	$ 1,434.20
SSR	1BR (S)	178​	$ 8.1388	$ 1,448.71	101%​
BLT	1BR (S)	210​	$ 7.5902	$ 1,593.94	111%​
BRV	1BR (S)	218​	$ 8.6790	$ 1,892.02	132%​
VGF	1BR (S)	268​	$ 7.5740	$ 2,029.83	142%​
RIV	1BR (S)	248​	$ 8.8508	$ 2,195.00	153%​

Compared to a Studio, you're buying about as many points up-front and then paying quite a bit more in dues.

But compared to a 1BR, you're buying a lot fewer points up-front, and paying less in annual dues (everywhere except SSR).

Whether this is a good deal or not really comes down to how you value the cabins relative to other offerings. Do you need the extra space and the full kitchen? Does the remote location strike you as a charming asset, or a cheap-out liability? Will you look on in envy at the people staying in luxury at RIV, or will you delight in having your rustic getaway in the heart of the magic?

Having stayed in the old cabins, I'd personally consider use a BRV 1BR as my point of comparison, maybe slightly lower due to the lack of in-unit laundry and distance from dining options. But to save $20,000 up-front and $450/year in dues, plus a full 50-year contract, that seems like a pretty good deal!

Obviously it's not for everybody, but I really do think this is a very interesting product that serves a need for a lot of folks, and if specifically if you're in love with Ft Wilderness and/or really want a 1BR, it's a surprisingly good value.

 

[Genie+]

At least they know your names. We just received one mailing that I know about for the cabins and it was addressed to Vacation Club owner or something similar

I haven't figured out DVC marketing. It seems like all the promotional mailers go out to DW's name. None get addressed to me, even though I am primary on both contracts and handle everything related to DVC and Disney. However, those dues statements are definitely addressed to me....

I thought maybe they are coming in my name since I was the one who reached out initially with the phone call? Right before we bought I had requested an info packet with the key. That might have something to do with it too?

 

[Genie+]

I actually don't think the CFW dues are too bad.

Yes, the price per point is awful, and as a result the points are terrible value as SAP.

But the point chart is pretty low, so you end up not needing to buy as many points as you would for equivalent accommodations elsewhere. That lowers your up-front costs and your actual annual dues bill.

"equivalent accommodations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, though; so much depends on whether you value CFW at Studio or 1BR rates.

If I look at one week in January, that's 118 points, or $1434 in dues, or just over $200/night.

If I compare that to the dues cost at other DVC resorts, that's about 20%-50% more than you'd pay in dues for a Studio, but quite a bit less than you'd pay for a 1BR.

Resort	Room	Points	Dues	Dues Cost	Difference
SSR	Studio (S)	90​	$ 8.1388	$ 732.49	-49%​
BLT	Studio (S)	109​	$ 7.5902	$ 827.33	-43%​
BRV	Studio (S)	107​	$ 8.6790	$ 928.65	-46%​
VGF	Studio (S)	125​	$ 7.5740	$ 946.75	-66%​
RIV	Studio (S)	116​	$ 8.8508	$ 1,026.69	-70%​
PVB	Studio (S)	125​	$ 8.2301	$ 1,028.76	-81%​
CFW	Cabin	118​	$ 12.1542	$ 1,434.20
SSR	1BR (S)	178​	$ 8.1388	$ 1,448.71	101%​
BLT	1BR (S)	210​	$ 7.5902	$ 1,593.94	111%​
BRV	1BR (S)	218​	$ 8.6790	$ 1,892.02	132%​
VGF	1BR (S)	268​	$ 7.5740	$ 2,029.83	142%​
RIV	1BR (S)	248​	$ 8.8508	$ 2,195.00	153%​

Compared to a Studio, you're buying about as many points up-front and then paying quite a bit more in dues.

But compared to a 1BR, you're buying a lot fewer points up-front, and paying less in annual dues (everywhere except SSR).

Whether this is a good deal or not really comes down to how you value the cabins relative to other offerings. Do you need the extra space and the full kitchen? Does the remote location strike you as a charming asset, or a cheap-out liability? Will you look on in envy at the people staying in luxury at RIV, or will you delight in having your rustic getaway in the heart of the magic?

Having stayed in the old cabins, I'd personally consider use a BRV 1BR as my point of comparison, maybe slightly lower due to the lack of in-unit laundry and distance from dining options. But to save $20,000 up-front and $450/year in dues, plus a full 50-year contract, that seems like a pretty good deal!

Obviously it's not for everybody, but I really do think this is a very interesting product that serves a need for a lot of folks, and if specifically if you're in love with Ft Wilderness and/or really want a 1BR, it's a surprisingly good value.

That is a good point. Same reason we started out with Boardwalk. The points of a smaller contract went further. That meant less dues per night and buying less points saved money on the buy-in.

We came from the opposite end with buying VGF. Part of choosing that resort was direct incentives at a good price, but also the lower cost when trading out with lower than average dues. I’m yet to trade out our BWV resale points but already used direct VGF for SSR lol. VGF would make a great trade to the cabins too! $120 in dues per night is nice. The buyin for those points was $4pp - so about $65/nt before TVM on a 16pt cabin night.

 

[ocdb8r1]

I actually don't think the CFW dues are too bad.

Yes, the price per point is awful, and as a result the points are terrible value as SAP.

But the point chart is pretty low, so you end up not needing to buy as many points as you would for equivalent accommodations elsewhere. That lowers your up-front costs and your actual annual dues bill.

"equivalent accommodations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, though; so much depends on whether you value CFW at Studio or 1BR rates.

If I look at one week in January, that's 118 points, or $1434 in dues, or just over $200/night.

If I compare that to the dues cost at other DVC resorts, that's about 20%-50% more than you'd pay in dues for a Studio, but quite a bit less than you'd pay for a 1BR.

​

Compared to a Studio, you're buying about as many points up-front and then paying quite a bit more in dues.

But compared to a 1BR, you're buying a lot fewer points up-front, and paying less in annual dues (everywhere except SSR).

Having stayed in the old cabins, I'd personally consider use a BRV 1BR as my point of comparison, maybe slightly lower due to the lack of in-unit laundry and distance from dining options. But to save $20,000 up-front and $450/year in dues, plus a full 50-year contract, that seems like a pretty good deal!

Obviously it's not for everybody, but I really do think this is a very interesting product that serves a need for a lot of folks, and if specifically if you're in love with Ft Wilderness and/or really want a 1BR, it's a surprisingly good value.

Agreed there is a "market" where this product likely fits their sweet spot...but just a few observations on your comparison:

First, you've chosen one of the lowest seasons of the year for a comparison. In looking at the CFW chart, this is where there is the greatest value delta compared to existing resorts. If you look at the higher seasons of the year, the value decreases (and in some cases flips). For example, if you look at the second highest season of the year, a 1BR at SSR and BLT(s) both end up costing less (on a pure annual maintenance fee basis) than CFW. Looking at the total points required across all seasons for a 1-bed, CFW is actually more than both SSR and BLT(s) on a per week basis when averaged across all seasons (again, on a pure annual maintenance fee basis). Also keep in mind that this is for a room that is at least 1/3rd smaller and has no washer/dryer.

Second, if CFW annual fees increase at a similar rate as other DVC resorts, by starting at a much higher level, the annual fee delta will only increase over time. Now, it will remain to be seen if this is the case...perhaps the fees will increase at a lower rate (but I suspect this will not be the case as a free standing unit is bound to have higher costs over time that a multi-unit building).

Third, I agree, if buying direct the up front cost could be substantially lower...but when throwing the option of resale into the mix, it is a much more difficult comparison. You're always going to be able to get into SSR/CCV/BLT resale for much cheaper than CFW direct. However, CFW resale (when it eventually emerges) will not be easily comparable given no ability to book outside CFW....then again, maybe a moot point as at the annual fee level, it would be crazy to use those points on another resorts point chart.

None of this is meant to refute your ultimate conclusions, I think it just demonstrates that everyone should carefully do the full calculations and consider their intended use. If you are a family of 6, there is unlikely a better option. If you MUST always stay at CFW, you have your answer. But if you are a family of 2-5 and don't need to stay at CFW every single year, there are a lot of permutations to consider.

 

[Cabius]

Agreed there is a "market" where this product likely fits their sweet spot...but just a few observations on your comparison:

First, you've chosen one of the lowest seasons of the year for a comparison. In looking at the CFW chart, this is where there is the greatest value delta compared to existing resorts. If you look at the higher seasons of the year, the value decreases (and in some cases flips). For example, if you look at the second highest season of the year, a 1BR at SSR and BLT(s) both end up costing less (on a pure annual maintenance fee basis) than CFW.

Very fair! I always look at January as a point-of-comparison, because that's when my family typically travels. We're also (as of December) a family of six, so this really hits the sweet spot for us. But it's definitely not for everybody.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

 

[maui22]

I actually don't think the CFW dues are too bad.

Yes, the price per point is awful, and as a result the points are terrible value as SAP.

But the point chart is pretty low, so you end up not needing to buy as many points as you would for equivalent accommodations elsewhere. That lowers your up-front costs and your actual annual dues bill.

"equivalent accommodations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, though; so much depends on whether you value CFW at Studio or 1BR rates.

If I look at one week in January, that's 118 points, or $1434 in dues, or just over $200/night.

If I compare that to the dues cost at other DVC resorts, that's about 20%-50% more than you'd pay in dues for a Studio, but quite a bit less than you'd pay for a 1BR.

Resort	Room	Points	Dues	Dues Cost	Difference
SSR	Studio (S)	90​	$ 8.1388	$ 732.49	-49%​
BLT	Studio (S)	109​	$ 7.5902	$ 827.33	-43%​
BRV	Studio (S)	107​	$ 8.6790	$ 928.65	-46%​
VGF	Studio (S)	125​	$ 7.5740	$ 946.75	-66%​
RIV	Studio (S)	116​	$ 8.8508	$ 1,026.69	-70%​
PVB	Studio (S)	125​	$ 8.2301	$ 1,028.76	-81%​
CFW	Cabin	118​	$ 12.1542	$ 1,434.20
SSR	1BR (S)	178​	$ 8.1388	$ 1,448.71	101%​
BLT	1BR (S)	210​	$ 7.5902	$ 1,593.94	111%​
BRV	1BR (S)	218​	$ 8.6790	$ 1,892.02	132%​
VGF	1BR (S)	268​	$ 7.5740	$ 2,029.83	142%​
RIV	1BR (S)	248​	$ 8.8508	$ 2,195.00	153%​

Compared to a Studio, you're buying about as many points up-front and then paying quite a bit more in dues.

But compared to a 1BR, you're buying a lot fewer points up-front, and paying less in annual dues (everywhere except SSR).

Whether this is a good deal or not really comes down to how you value the cabins relative to other offerings. Do you need the extra space and the full kitchen? Does the remote location strike you as a charming asset, or a cheap-out liability? Will you look on in envy at the people staying in luxury at RIV, or will you delight in having your rustic getaway in the heart of the magic?

Having stayed in the old cabins, I'd personally consider use a BRV 1BR as my point of comparison, maybe slightly lower due to the lack of in-unit laundry and distance from dining options. But to save $20,000 up-front and $450/year in dues, plus a full 50-year contract, that seems like a pretty good deal!

Obviously it's not for everybody, but I really do think this is a very interesting product that serves a need for a lot of folks, and if specifically if you're in love with Ft Wilderness and/or really want a 1BR, it's a surprisingly good value.

I actually don't think the CFW dues are too bad.

Yes, the price per point is awful, and as a result the points are terrible value as SAP.

But the point chart is pretty low, so you end up not needing to buy as many points as you would for equivalent accommodations elsewhere. That lowers your up-front costs and your actual annual dues bill.

"equivalent accommodations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, though; so much depends on whether you value CFW at Studio or 1BR rates.

If I look at one week in January, that's 118 points, or $1434 in dues, or just over $200/night.

If I compare that to the dues cost at other DVC resorts, that's about 20%-50% more than you'd pay in dues for a Studio, but quite a bit less than you'd pay for a 1BR.

Resort	Room	Points	Dues	Dues Cost	Difference
SSR	Studio (S)	90​	$ 8.1388	$ 732.49	-49%​
BLT	Studio (S)	109​	$ 7.5902	$ 827.33	-43%​
BRV	Studio (S)	107​	$ 8.6790	$ 928.65	-46%​
VGF	Studio (S)	125​	$ 7.5740	$ 946.75	-66%​
RIV	Studio (S)	116​	$ 8.8508	$ 1,026.69	-70%​
PVB	Studio (S)	125​	$ 8.2301	$ 1,028.76	-81%​
CFW	Cabin	118​	$ 12.1542	$ 1,434.20
SSR	1BR (S)	178​	$ 8.1388	$ 1,448.71	101%​
BLT	1BR (S)	210​	$ 7.5902	$ 1,593.94	111%​
BRV	1BR (S)	218​	$ 8.6790	$ 1,892.02	132%​
VGF	1BR (S)	268​	$ 7.5740	$ 2,029.83	142%​
RIV	1BR (S)	248​	$ 8.8508	$ 2,195.00	153%​

Compared to a Studio, you're buying about as many points up-front and then paying quite a bit more in dues.

But compared to a 1BR, you're buying a lot fewer points up-front, and paying less in annual dues (everywhere except SSR).

Whether this is a good deal or not really comes down to how you value the cabins relative to other offerings. Do you need the extra space and the full kitchen? Does the remote location strike you as a charming asset, or a cheap-out liability? Will you look on in envy at the people staying in luxury at RIV, or will you delight in having your rustic getaway in the heart of the magic?

Having stayed in the old cabins, I'd personally consider use a BRV 1BR as my point of comparison, maybe slightly lower due to the lack of in-unit laundry and distance from dining options. But to save $20,000 up-front and $450/year in dues, plus a full 50-year contract, that seems like a pretty good deal!

Obviously it's not for everybody, but I really do think this is a very interesting product that serves a need for a lot of folks, and if specifically if you're in love with Ft Wilderness and/or really want a 1BR, it's a surprisingly good value.

It is a good choice if most stays at CFW. Harder when using CFW points to stay at other resorts.

For that reason, future resale may be something DW and I would look at. We would use other points to stay at non-CFW. Resale CFW should come at a discount compared to direct.

Nice part of DVC is many different resorts to please different people. (Disclaimer, I would never recommend DVC to those who don’t like WDW or DL).

 

[wilkydelts]

There are countless threads on the cabins.

 

[Genie+]

None of this is meant to refute your ultimate conclusions, I think it just demonstrates that everyone should carefully do the full calculations and consider their intended use. If you are a family of 6, there is unlikely a better option. If you MUST always stay at CFW, you have your answer. But if you are a family of 2-5 and don't need to stay at CFW every single year, there are a lot of permutations to consider.

Very fair! I always look at January as a point-of-comparison, because that's when my family typically travels. We're also (as of December) a family of six, so this really hits the sweet spot for us. But it's definitely not for everybody.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

I’m very interested to see new incentives April 1st. Right now CFW can make sense for those who want stay there most or all of the time, or don’t mind paying a premium to stay there occasionally during lower point seasons when 7 month demand might be a challenge. CFW is not great for buyers who plan on trying many different resorts. Trading into Poly, VGF or RIV hurts with $12 dues.

 

[vdangelo239]

I’m very interested to see new incentives April 1st. Right now CFW can make sense for those who want stay there most or all of the time, or don’t mind paying a premium to stay there occasionally during lower point seasons when 7 month demand might be a challenge. CFW is not great for buyers who plan on trying many different resorts. Trading into Poly, VGF or RIV hurts with $12 dues.

I am also very curious what the incentives look like on April 1st. You would have to think that DVC would realize this is their last chance to "fire sale" Riviera before the new Poly tower goes on sale.

I can see them having Poly Tower and the Cabins as two entirely different offerings, but how Riviera could ever compete with the Poly head-to-head - I just don't see it happening. So in my mind, this next round of incentives has to be where they try to move as many Riv points as possible before the new Poly tower goes on sale and becomes the go-to for many - with the Cabins as the alternative WDW option.

Thoughts?

 

[eticketplease]

We're also (as of December) a family of six, so this really hits the sweet spot for us. But it's definitely not for everybody.

Just remember kids only get older so while bunk beds might be great now in a few years your kids feet might be hanging over bed.

 

[WDWFERN]

I’m all in for better incentives on RIV!