lesbians need not apply

[legalsea]

That wouldn't be a personal attack now-would it?

Nope, just good general advice found in Proverbs.

 

[Master Mason]

Yes. It's one issue. Reading comprehension. It's a good thing. And I added a link for ya'.

Well when you find it, go ahead and read it. You missed the part where I said Marriage doesn't count because everyone is equally restricted regarding same sex marriage.

 

[CowboyCO]

Oh, ok. So I guess my cousin who has been in a long-term loving relationship with the girl of her dreams should break up with her and get into an unhappy, loveless marriage with a guy? Yeah, good luck with that.

Anna

Absolutely not, but I wouldn't suggest that she apply to attend Brigham Young University or Oral Roberts University.

 

[Goofyluver]

Well when you find it, go ahead and read it. You missed the part where I said Marriage doesn't count because everyone is equally restricted regarding same sex marriage.

More than 1,000 federal rights are granted to married couples.

Who are YOU to say that marriage doesn't count?

Do you think it doesn't matter to gays and lesbians?

 

[Master Mason]

More than 1,000 federal rights are granted to married couples.

Who are YOU to say that marriage doesn't count?

Do you think it doesn't matter to gays and lesbians?

You were stating that there is wide spread discrimination, but can only come up with a single issue, an issue were currently people are ALL treated equally. I'm not arguing gay marriage at the moment, just wondering where this so called discrimination is occuring.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Nope, just good general advice found in Proverbs.

Better "advice" then actually addressing the question, I guess.

 

[CowboyCO]

Actually, I agree with you here. Although I am fully in support of gay rights, I can see that there is going to have to be very clear language as to how churches and such will be dealt with under such laws. In so much as I believe GLBT should have equal rights, I also don't believe church congregations and ministers should be punished for what is said inside their churches.

This is actually an issue right now in MT. We have legislation working its way through our state government to add homosexuals to those "protected" under the definition of hate crimes. The most vocal opponents are, of course, churches, but not because of any theological issues. More because they wonder, just as you wonder mkingdomlvr, if they will then be breaking the law when they preach their sermons?

I think, thankfully, the legislation will pass eventually, but IMHO it is going to have to contain some really tricky wrangling of church/state separation and/or a lot of legalspeak. (Oh legalsea, where are you....)

I hope this new hate crime legislation in Montana does not pass. It's discriminiatory against those victims and victim's families not part of that "special class".

For example, during the Matthew Sheppard trials, our city council was approached to pass hate crimes ordinances which would "protect" people based upon race, creed and sexual orientation. First off, it was not a municipal issue, so they were barking up the wrong tree - go see the state legislature. But the spotlight shone brightly for me when the mother of a raped and murdered 9-year-old girl came forward and spoke. "Why is the rape and murder of my child less greivous than the murder of someone because they are black or Jewish or homosexual? My daughter was targeted and murdered because because she was a child. Judges and juries have the power to review mitigating and damning circumstances in the sentencing of violent criminals and apply appropriate sentences based upon the acts of a criminal rather than the color of the victim."

Hate crimes create special rights and sentences for crimes against special groups, rather than equal justice under the law.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Actually, I agree with you here. Although I am fully in support of gay rights, I can see that there is going to have to be very clear language as to how churches and such will be dealt with under such laws. In so much as I believe GLBT should have equal rights, I also don't believe church congregations and ministers should be punished for what is said inside their churches.

This is actually an issue right now in MT. We have legislation working its way through our state government to add homosexuals to those "protected" under the definition of hate crimes. The most vocal opponents are, of course, churches, but not because of any theological issues. More because they wonder, just as you wonder mkingdomlvr, if they will then be breaking the law when they preach their sermons?

I think, thankfully, the legislation will pass eventually, but IMHO it is going to have to contain some really tricky wrangling of church/state separation and/or a lot of legalspeak. (Oh legalsea, where are you....)

Thank you for understanding that the churches do have a concern here.

 

[legalsea]

Better "advice" then actually addressing the question, I guess.

Read my posts contained herein. The thing is, the original 'question' has long gone by the wayside.

 

[Goofyluver]

You were stating that there is wide spread discrimination, but can only come up with a single issue, an issue were currently people are ALL treated equally. I'm not arguing gay marriage at the moment, just wondering where this so called discrimination is occuring.

The girls referenced in this thread that were denied an education due to their "alleged" lesbian relationship.

The lesbian or gay individual that cannot visit or make decisions for their partner in the hospital because they are not recognized as family/spouses.

Employers that do not grant same sex partners benefits.

The wishful parents who are not entitled to adopt because there are two mommies/daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy.

DADT.

Do I go on?

 

[Holly]

When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are.

Read my posts contained herein. The thing is, the original 'question' has long gone by the wayside.

And yet here you are. Perhaps someone should themselves take the rude advice they offer to others.



As for why I'm here, I just felt like acting like a fool.

 

[Goofyluver]

Read my posts contained herein. The thing is, the original 'question' has long gone by the wayside.

It's a discussion board. Discussions weave.

 

[Cindy F]

You were stating that there is wide spread discrimination, but can only come up with a single issue, an issue were currently people are ALL treated equally. I'm not arguing gay marriage at the moment, just wondering where this so called discrimination is occuring.

Some roads must be traveled in order to understand. You have not traveled that road therefore you can not understand and no one can explain it to you.

It is also obvious that you would rather argue in order to maintain your current knowledge set and preconceived notions rather than seek true enlightenment/true understanding of someone else's situation.

 

[Cindy F]

The girls referenced in this thread that were denied an education due to their "alleged" lesbian relationship.

The lesbian or gay individual that cannot visit or make decisions for their partner in the hospital because they are not recognized as family/spouses.

Employers that do not grant same sex partners benefits.

The wishful parents who are not entitled to adopt because there are two mommies/daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy.

DADT.

Do I go on?

Goofy, quite a few people choose to believe what is most comfortable for them to believe regardless of any evidence to the contrary. Think Archie Bunker.

 

[Goofyluver]

Goofy, quite a few people choose to believe what is most comfortable for them to believe regardless of any evidence to the contrary. Think Archie Bunker.

Honey...he just argues for argues sake.

 

[RitaE]

Originally Posted by Goofyluver View Post
The girls referenced in this thread that were denied an education due to their "alleged" lesbian relationship.

The lesbian or gay individual that cannot visit or make decisions for their partner in the hospital because they are not recognized as family/spouses.

Employers that do not grant same sex partners benefits.

The wishful parents who are not entitled to adopt because there are two mommies/daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy.

#1. No they weren't. They were denied the right to attend one single Church based school. They are still quite able to receive an education from a plethora of other places. These girls will not grow up uneducated and illiterate because the Lutherans won't teach them. There is no need to over-dramatize the event.

#2. I'm actually in favor of Gay Marriage and Civil Unions. But regardless, anybody has the right to appoint a non family member as their Medical Power of Attorney and grant them those rights.

#3. Any Employer who wishes to grant same sex partner benefits has the right to do so.

#4. Same sex partners adopt children all the time.

 

[Sorsha]

The girls referenced in this thread that were denied an education due to their "alleged" lesbian relationship.

I do agree with you on the issues of most of the discriminations faced by GLBT, honestly i really really do, and I know you feel very passionatly about this, but truely those girls were NOT denied an education! We are losing sight of this point somehow.

They were denied an education in THAT school, becuase THAT school was a private entity, and disagreed with who they were and how they behaved and, in its eyes, saw that it had reason to expell them. As a private organization, THAT is their right! Do I think it was very nice of them, NO, do I agree with it, NO! But its NOT my decision!

They are perfectly free to go to any number of schools and receive a perfectly fine education, in fact, IMHO probably a BETTER education then they would have received in that school. An education that will not constantly wear down on their self-esteem and make them feel ashamed and sad about something they can't control. Isn't that better in the long run anyway?

As many other posters have said, I couldn't enroll in an Islamic school and then expect them to allow me to start preaching the bible. I couldn't enroll in my old church school and expect them to allow me to violate their rules of purity and dress code and all the other silly things I had to adhere to. They would boot me out. And would they be within their rights? You betcha! In fact, in my public high school, were I to have been caught half naked in the boys locker room playing tonsil hockey with my boyfriend, I would have disciplined there as well! What if I were to try to join an old fuddy-duddy men-only Water Buffalos club (Grand PoohBah here I come). They would say no. I am female. Could I scream and yell? Yup. But they are a private organization. Their rules, their business.

Everywhere, every organization, has rules. Some are fairer than others. Some are nicer than others. But when it comes down to it, whether I agree or not. Its their club. Their school. Their rules. And as long as they don't go asking my government for money or grants, or anything else, its their right to stay private and make their own rules. That's the way the happy old US of A works, guys.

Its good to be passionate for a cause. Its wonderful to have strong beliefs. But we need to stay reasonable. On both sides of the issue.

Signing out now.
Off to Costco.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

The girls referenced in this thread that were denied an education due to their "alleged" lesbian relationship.

The lesbian or gay individual that cannot visit or make decisions for their partner in the hospital because they are not recognized as family/spouses.

Employers that do not grant same sex partners benefits.

The wishful parents who are not entitled to adopt because there are two mommies/daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy.

DADT.

Do I go on?

1. They were not "denied an education", they were expelled from a conservative Christian school, which, as lesbians I doubt they were all that comfortable in anyway.

2. Wouldn't a medical power of attorney cover the hospital issue? I don't know-I'm just asking.

3. An employer has to make decisions that will keep his business viable. There are companies that are stopping coverage for everyone except the employee themselves just to stay in business. Not only gay people are affected by the high cost of health care.

4. The focus here is on what is best for the child, not what makes couples happy. There are many loving couples that cannot adopt because they don't make enough money or don't have the right type of job. It's not ONLY gay couples that are rejected as adoptive parents.

5. I assume you mean "Don't Ask, Don't tell". Well, sit down, but I agree with you there. I don't think we should ever refuse an otherwise qualified person who wants to serve his or her country because they are "out".

 

[Master Mason]

Hate crimes create special rights and sentences for crimes against special groups, rather than equal justice under the law.

My problem was that then we have a tought police. Punish the actions absolutely, but you can not punish people for their thoughts or beliefs.

The girls referenced in this thread that were denied an education due to their "alleged" lesbian relationship.

The lesbian or gay individual that cannot visit or make decisions for their partner in the hospital because they are not recognized as family/spouses.

Employers that do not grant same sex partners benefits.

The wishful parents who are not entitled to adopt because there are two mommies/daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy.

DADT.

Do I go on?

No they were not denied an education, they were denied the right to attend a private school.

Employers don't have to grant benifits to anyone, they don't have to offer them to any domestic partners if they don't want, gay or straight.

My girlfiend can not make such decisions for me either, unless I fill out a power of attorney.

DADT I agree with you.

I don't know enough about adoption laws to comment.

 

[momto2girls]

I do agree with you on the issues of most of the discriminations faced by GLBT, honestly i really really do, and I know you feel very passionatly about this, but truely those girls were NOT denied an education! We are losing sight of this point somehow.

They were denied an education in THAT school, becuase THAT school was a private entity, and disagreed with who they were and how they behaved and, in its eyes, saw that it had reason to expell them. As a private organization, THAT is their right! Do I think it was very nice of them, NO, do I agree with it, NO! But its NOT my decision!

They are perfectly free to go to any number of schools and receive a perfectly fine education, in fact, IMHO probably a BETTER education then they would have received in that school. An education that will not constantly wear down on their self-esteem and make them feel ashamed and sad about something they can't control. Isn't that better in the long run anyway?

As many other posters have said, I couldn't enroll in an Islamic school and then expect them to allow me to start preaching the bible. I couldn't enroll in my old church school and expect them to allow me to violate their rules of purity and dress code and all the other silly things I had to adhere to. They would boot me out. And would they be within their rights? You betcha! In fact, in my public high school, were I to have been caught half naked in the boys locker room playing tonsil hockey with my boyfriend, I would have disciplined there as well! What if I were to try to join an old fuddy-duddy men-only Water Buffalos club (Grand PoohBah here I come). They would say no. I am female. Could I scream and yell? Yup. But they are a private organization. Their rules, their business.

Everywhere, every organization, has rules. Some are fairer than others. Some are nicer than others. But when it comes down to it, whether I agree or not. Its their club. Their school. Their rules. And as long as they don't go asking my government for money or grants, or anything else, its their right to stay private and make their own rules. That's the way the happy old US of A works, guys.

Its good to be passionate for a cause. Its wonderful to have strong beliefs. But we need to stay reasonable. On both sides of the issue.

Signing out now.
Off to Costco.

THAT is the whole point (the bolded part). The private, religious school has the right to make their rules. The girls are not being denied an education. They are just being denied an education at one private school.