Legal Question-Are Members "responsible" for Renters?

[noname70]

I was curious about members renting out points. Since a member is a deed holder to the property, is the member responsible for and to the renter?

If the renter damages the room?

If the renter gets hurt in the room?
Does DVC get sued? Do I as the "owner"?

 

[rinkwide]

If the renter damages the room?

This subject is often used as a scare tactic by those opposed to renting on these boards. The fact is, anyone who causes the damage is ultimately responsible for it. However, that won't prevent Disney Vacation Development from sending you the bill per their user agreement. At which point you would sue the renter and recover those costs (but I suspect a "friendly" request for reimbursement on a lawyers letterhead would do the trick if it came to that).

If the renter gets hurt in the room?
Does DVC get sued? Do I as the "owner"?

Unless your name is Larry Page, Sergey Brin or Bill Gates your pockets aren't deep enough.

 

[bicker]

Having to sue the renter to recover what I was charged by DVC is a pretty strong deterrant for me; I won't be renting my points again anytime soon.

 

[Doctor P]

I'm sorry, but it is not a scare tactic. As an owner, you are responsible for any damages caused by a person using your points. Yes, you can try to recover (and will likely be successful) against a renter, but DVC has no responsibility to go any further than the owner (and they have quite a bit of leverage as one owner found out regarding an unpaid room bill a while ago). You could also be a party to an injury lawsuit since you were contractually providing the accommodations. Whether the person would prevail or not would depend on the court and the circumstances.

 

[MrsNick]

Having to sue the renter to recover what I was charged by DVC is a pretty strong deterrant for me; I won't be renting my points again anytime soon.

OMG, did this happen to you? Did the renter cause damage and DVC billed you?

 

[toesmom]

I'll transfer points to other members, but wouldn't rent out. If any damage occured by renter, I'm held responsible. And unless that renter is in my local area, it would be really difficult to collect for damages they caused.

 

[rinkwide]

I rest my case.

 

[KellyDVC]

OK, what about renter's from Interval International? Are you saying the 'owner' who had absolutely no say so in who gets the week is also liable? I doubt it. Anyway, I agree somewhat with the scare-tactic justification. I have never heard of any owner being held responsible for any 'damage', at least on these boards. Not to say they could not be held responsible - per DVD legal language - just never been quoted in this forum.

Am I wrong? Has anyone been held accountable? I would enjoy hearing the story, as I occasionally rent my excess points.

 

[RobDoc]

There are no "renters" from Interval International. That is only on an exchange basis and is handled only between DVC and II. Individual DVC members do not make the reservation for the II exchange and have no responsibility for how it is handled - that is entirely under the control of DVC.

As for member's liability with a reservation they make themselves- it has happened and has been reported and discussed on this forum - even within the past year. In this case, it was not a rental per se, but it was a room being used by a family member where there was some issue with the credit card used by the family member and the billing statement for the stay was forwarded to the member who wasn't even allowed to make future reservations until the matter was resolved. Instead of handling the problem with the person who used the villa, DVC just chose to dump it all on the member who made the reservation using their points. It was ultimately resolved, but I know the member sure had some anxious days while it was handled.

There is specific language in your POS regarding non-payment of assessment (owner's would be denied access or check-in until paid) and for "Holdover" (late checkout) there are fines ($50 per day or any part thereof, as well as expenses incurred to find substitute accommodations for the next guest). These policies apply to "Owners, his or her lessees, guests, exchangers and invitees". There are other sections of the POS devoted to damages to villas where the Owner making the reservation would be held responsible.

To my knowledge, we've not had any reports on this forum about anyone being charged for damages to a villa, so it certainly is not something that has happened frequently- but the provision exists in our documents.

 

[rinkwide]

...not a rental per se, but it was a room being used by a family member...

Funny, the anti-renter faction never seems to direct their venom at owners who are subletting to family. I think we'd all be better served if they did.

 

[Chuck S]

Funny, the anti-renter faction never seems to direct their venom at owners who are subletting to family. I think we'd all be better served if they did.

More than likely because most of us are willing to accept some responsibility for our familiy members and friends, or we would not invite them to our timeshare in the first place.

That is quite different from accepting responsibility for a stranger renting points on the internet.

 

[RobDoc]

... and the point of offering that report as an example is that if it can happen when a family member is staying at a DVC resort using a member's points, it can certainly happen when a renter is staying using a member's points. In this case, the member had no difficulty getting his BIL to ultimately take care of the issue - but just imagine how long it could have taken if it was an internet renter - especially when the member's account was effectively inacessible while the matter was resolved.

 

[bicker]

I wouldn't even consider it to be an "anti-renter" faction. I think the reality is that people are just concerned that folks doing the renting realize what they're getting into. Sometimes it seems like renting is such an easy and low-risk way of raising cash, and the reality is that it simply isn't that simple.

 

[rinkwide]

I'm seeing lots of chicken-little's but not enough falling sky.

 

[RobDoc]

I'm seeing lots of chicken-little's but not enough falling sky.

Ahh- so your advice to someone who asks the question would be that the member has no responsibility at all ? Sounds like that would be questionable advice to me but, then again, I'm not much of a risk-taker. Perhaps others are eager to take that risk in spite of the consequences spelled out in the documents.

I'd rather advise people here what is printed in our documents and what events have been reported and allow them to make their own informed decision. If you aren't worried about any consequences, that is certainly your decision.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

... and the point of offering that report as an example is that if it can happen when a family member is staying at a DVC resort using a member's points, it can certainly happen when a renter is staying using a member's points. In this case, the member had no difficulty getting his BIL to ultimately take care of the issue - but just imagine how long it could have taken if it was an internet renter - especially when the member's account was effectively inacessible while the matter was resolved.

In this particular case I think there were some charges the guest (BIL) made to the room key that WDW came after the owner for. I thought the owner received a response from DVC MS that it was policy that a DVC member would not be responsible for a "guest's" room charges.

Damage to the unit would be another issue. However, I've never read anything here about anyone being charged for damage to units (except for all us members through our dues).

 

[JimMIA]

In this particular case I think there were some charges the guest (BIL) made to the room key that WDW came after the owner for.

The actual facts were that the BIL left his credit card imprint at the front desk for all charges to his room, but the front desk folks made a mistake and never billed his card. Quite some time later, the DVC owner tried to make a ressie and was told he could not do so because of an unpaid bill on his account. It was a DVC screw-up -- not a mistake or malicious act by the BIL --but it still put the DVC owner in a bind.

I think we'd all have to bury our heads pretty deeply in the sand not to realize that there is certainly a risk of charges against the account because of a renter's actions. I'm not anti-renting -- in fact, I'm all for renting. But I am anti-not-knowing-what-you're-doing. IMHO, lack of understanding the rules and mechanics of the process is the biggest risk to both parties in a rental transaction.

 

[bicker]

There's a lot of that going around, Jim: Burying heads in sand to avoid realizing risk or responsibility. It seems to be a favored pastime.

 

[greenban]

Hello Friends, just back from the either of a very nasty computer virus!

I agree there is risk in renting. But I have personally found, so far in my rental journey, that I have a bigger risk of non-payment or cancellation by renters than I do with damages to the room, or room charges.

So, I see the risk along the lines of Rink, yeah, another meteor could come along and wipe us all out, but I kinda doubt it!

Of course on the other hand, that is what the dinosauers were thinking, wasn't it?

Like the Roman's used to say, "Carpet Emporium" or buyer seize the carpet!

YRMV!

-Tony

 

[bicker]

another meteor could come along and wipe us all out

I'd put the risk more on-par with getting into a car accident.