Legal issues with Fastpass+ this summer? (a little long)

[aaarcher86]

Yes, Disney created the heat and they should be held accountable.

 

[velvetsqueeze]

Without suggesting that I think that there would be any merit to such a suit, I think that Disney could be more vulnerable than the example you cite. If the people are waiting out in the open heat and sun waiting to tap the initial Mickey, and on the other side of that Mickey is an empty, shaded, misted, cooled, professionally designed queue area, the "reasonable person" standard could find Disney liable where the stadium would not be. To wit: Would a reasonable person cause people to stand out in the punishing heat and sun when a viable, shaded area is mere feet away and unused? If a Central Florida jury got that question, I do not think that it is a slam dunk that Disney wins. A jury could find that Disney was negligent in designing a system that pushed people out into the heat when the shaded areas were going unused, especially if the remedial measure was no more complicated than either eliminating the first Mickey, or moving it further down the line so that people lined up in the shade. The stadium offers no viable alternative to where people watch the game. As long as the Space Mountain indoor queue is empty while people line up clear out to the People Mover, I can see a jury finding a difference.

You beat me to it by 2 minutes!

We will be in Disney 3/8-3/15 and will be staying offsite. I will try to do a daily update thread (good, bad, and indifferent) with pictures, assuming I can get my computer and SD card to play nice.

 

[delmar411]

Considering Disney gives out free water at every restaurant and has ample water fountains around and doesn't not require (or desire) the entire party to stand in the line (so someone is free to get the line waiter some water), I'm pretty sure they have covered themselves legally. Plus disney has a dedicated emergency services department that is there to assist guests in any type of emergency including medical so all guest needs to do is ask for assistance or even ask for water.

 

[Golf4283]

haha this topic is a bit comical.

Honestly though even if someone were to sue they wouldn't win. Disney isn't forcing anyone to do anything that would cause them harm by waiting in line. If they're too hot they can leave the line, they can bring a mister or a fan.

If no fastpass + or - existed then the lines would still be there.

 

[FLchick415]

I've stood in PLENTY of lines in the hot sun when I was a kid. Before FP- or +. Mostly for Dumbo. My mom still laments about it. lol

 

[Q-man]

You were ahead of me, I see! I hate when I see the casual ignorance about that case. McDonalds was negligent and the woman was seriously injured (disfigured).

Yep. There were multiple burn cases before that attributed to the temperature of McDonald's coffee. McDonald's failure to change the coffee temperature in light of previous burns why the award was so high in the now famous case.

 

[Magpie]

After all, if you can win lots of money for spilling your own coffee in your own lap and getting burned, I guess fainting in the hot sun because you chose to stand there should be worth something!

Please read this: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

The McDonald's Coffee lawsuit was not frivolous. The poor woman was hospitalized with third degree burns and had to get skin grafts. And McDonald's knew they were serving dangerously hot coffee (having at least 700 documented complaints against them in the years previous) and deliberately chose to continue serving it.

Edit: Sorry for piling on! I was looking up the link, and didn't notice a whole lot of other folks posting the same thing.

As for lawsuits against Disney... Well, if you can find a lawyer foolish enough to take your case, anyone can sue for anything. I don't see it going anywhere, however.

 

[disnut8]

Considering Disney gives out free water at every restaurant and has ample water fountains around and doesn't not require (or desire) the entire party to stand in the line (so someone is free to get the line waiter some water), I'm pretty sure they have covered themselves legally. Plus disney has a dedicated emergency services department that is there to assist guests in any type of emergency including medical so all guest needs to do is ask for assistance or even ask for water.

You beat me to the post, darn it!

The thing is, Disney doesn't advertising or promote their "behind the scenes" activities so the ordinary visitor doesn't know about them. We here know about free water but the average guest doesn't. However, I think the Cast Members (although I'm sure hundreds of posers will chime in with disagreement in about five minutes) take notice if someone is lagging or drooping or something and will offer to get some assistance.

A couple of cases - my aunt at a Six Flags park stepped on something wrong as she was approaching her first ride of the day. She overturned her ankle (late found out it was broken) but instead of finding someone to take care of her, she sat on a bench for the rest of the day. Not her fault, not Six Flag's fault but she wasted her money and didn't speak up.

My husband at Disney World (and not putting Six Flags into a negative light) but he was just getting over the first diagnosis of gout, had all his meds, was in a wheelchair for most of the time but decided to try walking the last day. He was spent and tired so we took a bench in Animal Kingdom to wait for the next showing of Flights of Wonder. I was giving him water and making sure he was OK but a Cast Member came over from the nearby souvenir stand and offered to go and get a wheelchair for us. She also offered to go for water so we didn't have to move. My husband declined since he was feeling better and is fine now (and on meds).

So, the only person in control of your situation is, guess who, you. Why sue because of that?

 

[wishing4PA]

To wit: Would a reasonable person cause people to stand out in the punishing heat and sun when a viable, shaded area is mere feet away and unused? If a Central Florida jury got that question, I do not think that it is a slam dunk that Disney wins. A jury could find that Disney was negligent in designing a system that pushed people out into the heat when the shaded areas were going unused, especially if the remedial measure was no more complicated than either eliminating the first Mickey, or moving it further down the line so that people lined up in the shade

I see your point, but unless the Florida jury is made up of newcomers who spend all summers in the mountains and only come out at night the rest of the year, I think the jurors would look back at all the times they've endured the heat and chalk it up to a normal part of life.

 

[shepd]

McDonald's was not negligent, IMHO. It is horrible what happened to that woman. However, nothing outweighs how she chose to hold the cup, for me. Coffee is always best served dangerously hot and choosing to handle it the same way you'd handle a slurpee is your own negligence.

The fact that McDonald's served their coffee at extremely extraordinarily dangerously hot temperatures doesn't negate how she chose to hold the cup.

I have a bottle of muriatic acid at home (18%). I also have a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner (3% muriatic acid, IIRC). I handle both similarly because they're both dangerous. If I decided to shove one of those bottles between my legs and then drove about... and... oops! it turns out they gave me the pool chemical strength instead of toilet bowl strength, it's my own fault when I spill it on myself, because I didn't treat a dangerous item as a dangerous item.

Anyways, more on topic, Disney serves ice water for free, as much as you'd like. I expect when they get sued (and I'm sure it's happened more than once) they point that out.

 

[DebbieB]

Disneyland has more lines out in the sun, I wonder if they ever get sued. Probably not.

 

[JimmyV]

Disneyland has more lines out in the sun, I wonder if they ever get sued. Probably not.

In the end, this is the final result. Dumbo used to be insufferable. The Tea Cups used to be open air. Put my bare legs on that hot fiberglass more times than I can count. The new FP+ situation is a step backward, but not any worse than certain things used to be. It is unfortunate that Disney can't see a path forward and instead is making the Space Mountain line akin to what Dumbo used to be years ago. But going backwards is likely not actionable.

 

[meggiebeth]

It's ridiculous to even consider someone suing because of that. Would you sue a state park for having to wait in a line to order ice cream in 100 degree heat? Would you sue a seaside resort for not having enough parasols for everyone? It just seems a bit silly.

Besides, if you can't cope with the heat of Florida in August, you probably shouldn't go at that time of year at all.

Meg~ Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[JimmyV]

It's ridiculous to even consider someone suing because of that. Would you sue a state park for having to wait in a line to order ice cream in 100 degree heat?

Again, I think you are missing the nuance here. If the state park had a beautiful, shaded, misted waiting area that people could use while they waited, and instead made people stand out in the 100 degree heat, you'd have to scratch your head and ask why won't they let those poor souls use the shade? Law suits are not always about money. They are sometimes about forcing people to do the common sense thing. It would be common sense for the state park to allow people to congregate in the shade while they waited. It would be common sense for Disney to move the Space Mountain line out of Tomorrowland and into the building. It's all a moot point, or, should be, because I am sure that Disney will realize all of this and figure out a way to shift the FP+ lines from outside the buildings and move them back into the buildings. It isn't that hard. All they have to do is put covers over the first Mickeys.

 

[daisy_77]

No one is forcing anyone to go to a Disney park. If it's hot: too bad, so sad.

 

[Cyrano]

Speculative discussion moving from TPAS to TP community.

 

[AliceandAriel]

A little background: Before I took my current job 3 years ago, I worked for 5 years at a manufacturing company. Part of my job was to be the liaison between the attorneys and insurance brokers on lawsuits against the company. The company always had lawsuits going on, ranging from the sublime ($1,000) to the ridiculous ($7 million). Most of the lawsuits were either dismissed after the initial investigation or settled out of court. Almost all of the settled lawsuits could have been won by the company had they progressed to court, but the costs to take the case to court outweighed the benefit of winning.

What did I learn during those 5 years? People will sue anyone for any reason, whether there is a basis for it or not.

My current thoughts: I'm looking at the busy days (8+) at the Disney parks and the long FP+ lines they are currently experiencing. I'm looking at the fact that these long lines are outside in the sun. I'm looking at the historical data for temperatures in Lake Buena Vista, FL for June/July, which seem to easily top 90+ degrees each day. Add the high humidity and you're looking at a heat index of over 100 degrees.

My question: Do you think Disney will open itself up to lawsuits with these long lines in the heat? I'm thinking about the people who are too hot, dehydrated (most people don't know when they are dehydrated), have no fluids with them, and don't want to lose their place in line to get something to drink. They pass out from the heat while standing in line. Will they sue Disney for causing the heat exhaustion by negligence? What if someone dies after the fall (i.e., hits their head just right)? Will the first lawsuit made public cause a domino effect and lead to more lawsuits?

Valid thoughts, but that would be like someone suing Disney for having a heart attack on a ride that explicitly says not to ride if you have heart problems. As much as someone wants to stand in a line, their health comes first, and if they fail to keep their health in check, they only have themselves to blame if they are hurt or ill. Disney can't mandate who drinks and eats and when.

 

[Magpie]

McDonald's was not negligent, IMHO. It is horrible what happened to that woman. However, nothing outweighs how she chose to hold the cup, for me. Coffee is always best served dangerously hot and choosing to handle it the same way you'd handle a slurpee is your own negligence.

The fact that McDonald's served their coffee at extremely extraordinarily dangerously hot temperatures doesn't negate how she chose to hold the cup.

I have a bottle of muriatic acid at home (18%). I also have a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner (3% muriatic acid, IIRC). I handle both similarly because they're both dangerous. If I decided to shove one of those bottles between my legs and then drove about... and... oops! it turns out they gave me the pool chemical strength instead of toilet bowl strength, it's my own fault when I spill it on myself, because I didn't treat a dangerous item as a dangerous item.

Anyways, more on topic, Disney serves ice water for free, as much as you'd like. I expect when they get sued (and I'm sure it's happened more than once) they point that out.

Actually it does. Because no reasonable person would expect COFFEE to be as dangerous as muriatic acid.

And, in fact, if McDonald's coffee had been served at the same temperature as the coffee you have at home, it would not have hospitalized that woman for almost a week and required skin grafts.

I've spilled coffee on myself. Even if it's freshly made, and as hot as I can get it, it still only causes temporary (if painful) reddened skin. McDonald's coffee was heated well beyond reasonable temperatures, beyond anything a home coffee brewer can produce.

Heck, if she'd incautiously tried to drink it black, the moment she got it, she would have severely burned her mouth, blistered her tongue, and probably still required skin grafts. Would you have blamed her then?

As the courts found: It was unfit for human consumption. Period.

(By the way, she was not the driver, and the car she was in was not moving. I've held hot chocolate between my knees under similar circumstances. I would not expect third degree burns requiring skin grafts, if I spilled it. I'd just expect a mess.)

 

[tazadd0420]

It's ridiculous to even consider someone suing because of that. Would you sue a state park for having to wait in a line to order ice cream in 100 degree heat? Would you sue a seaside resort for not having enough parasols for everyone? It just seems a bit silly.

Besides, if you can't cope with the heat of Florida in August, you probably shouldn't go at that time of year at all.

Meg~ Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

So basically if you can not stand the heat stay out of the kitchen?

 

[mom2AidanAndEli]

I'm sorry, but once you hold a flimsy styrofoam cup between your knees and take the lid off, you're responsible for your actions. And you certainly aren't deserving of almost $3 million!

It seems like the general motto in our society should be "It's always someone else's fault." They have to put warnings on plastic bags, "This is not a toy. Do not place over head." Seriously???? On a plastic coffee cup, "Caution! Contents hot!" Really???? What happened to common sense?

And in the OP's example, Disney is going to have to start posting warning signs at every ride queue. "Caution!! Standing in hot sun without enough liquids may cause dehydration and loss of consciousness!"