Layoffs

[HeatherC]

I keep hearing news of people being laid off and fear we are in for a tough year ahead on the employment front. Literally yesterday, I was with my daughter when her boyfriend texted saying his entire team was instructed to login at 1:00 for an HR meeting. Turns out they were doing layoffs all morning and told the ones left at 1pm. This the corporate office of a huge national retail/wholesale company. He was lucky to have been spared and his job has been deemed essential…for now. Those being laid off are having their jobs outsourced to India and have until the end of July to prepare. So at least they have notice, but still sad.

Right now I just read that UPS is laying off 12,000 workers. (I realize some of them are probably seasonal). Etsy and EBay and Microsoft have also just done layoffs.

For anybody under the threat of this, I am thinking of you and praying it doesn’t happen.

What are your thoughts on how the year will progress? Do you think we will see layoffs this month and next and then maybe it will stabilize?

 

[amylevan]

December’s unemployment rate was only 3.7%, so unless there’s been drastic changes in the last month, that’s not high.

Not that that makes it any easier for anyone who has been laid off, but it’s not currently at a number that should make anyone nervous.

 

[john7994]

Layoffs used to be a recourse of last resort - now - they are one of many tools in a company’s cost-optimization toolbox. Meaning that company management is less stigmatized for pulling that trigger anymore. Whereas job security may have been more assured in past generations, technological innovation in particular is moving so fast, that ramp-ups followed by layoffs are more likely to be commonplace as their is no longer a reason (legally or otherwise) to manage ups and downs in a business cycle more tightly especially during times when the excuse of macro-economic turmoil provides good cover for these short-term Wall Street driven decisions.

Personally, in addition to more outsourcing, I would expect to see more age-based targeting and white collar mid-level management reductions - in an effort to be more “lean”.

While there may be a desire to be reductive in calling all of this corporate greed at work - much of this is simply driven by the markets and those (us) participating in this manic cycle of risk/reward for squeezing out the right “numbers” at earnings time to watch our investments grow at levels we have become accustomed to over the past few decades…

I think there is room to suggest company management get better at what they do … I am just not seeing a lot of incentives or mechanisms in place to make this a reality these days.

 

[cvjw]

My son works for a big 4 accounting firm. They are laying off partners, which never happens. Don’t think the economy is quite as robust as we are being led to believe by low employment numbers.

 

[mousefan73]

Not concerned, my friend works in HR and it's still an employee market. Especially in the US where it's hire and fire and employment at will. Many time it's cost cutting to make more profit, not for survival.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Seems perfect for the Controversial Topics board - has that started yet?

 

[Kitty 34]

Seems perfect for the Controversial Topics board - has that started yet?

Yes it has started. C'mon up.

 

[Southernmiss]

My son works for a big 4 accounting firm. They are laying off partners, which never happens. Don’t think the economy is quite as robust as we are being led to believe by low employment numbers.

Daughter in law's father was a partner in a Big 4 firm.

It was well known that when he hit 55, he would be encouraged to retire. He did last year.

 

[lynxstch]

Yes it has started. C'mon up.

You have to submit an opt in, does someone let you know when you can get onto the board?

 

[soccerdad72]

Daughter in law's father was a partner in a Big 4 firm.

It was well known that when he hit 55, he would be encouraged to retire. He did last year.

Most firms have a mandatory retirement age of 60, so 55 is not that out of line for partner retirement. My wife is a Big 4 partner - her plan is to retire at the end of the year (she'll be 52). She did have a friend of hers in the firm (a fellow partner) get let go as well. She was sort of hoping to be on that list, since it came with a 1 year severance package.

As far as the OP's question goes, I've heard rumblings that the job market is starting to tighten up. It's not something that will show up in current unemployment data, though.

 

[TippyThomas]

You have to submit an opt in, does someone let you know when you can get onto the board?

I only knew I could get in after applying by just clicking on the subforum every now and again until it opened for me.

 

[kdonnel]

Since the early 2000's I have worked for companies that have annual layoffs sometime in October or November.

Even in years of record performance the annual layoffs occur.

For years I came to dread October/November. It really affected moral.

My office got downsized to the point there were only three left. I was not sure if I should count myself as a winner or loser for having made it to the final three.

I think the culture of annual layoffs is part of the culture of Wall Street. Many/Most public companies are managed by stock price. Decisions are made with short term stock price affect in mind. Long term projects are difficult to accomplish.

 

[lynxstch]

I only knew I could get in after applying by just clicking on the subforum every now and again until it opened for me.

I just got an email that said they had received my submission for access to the boards, so I guess they have to 'accept you'

 

[CdnCarrie]

Most firms have a mandatory retirement age of 60, so 55 is not that out of line for partner retirement. My wife is a Big 4 partner - her plan is to retire at the end of the year (she'll be 52). She did have a friend of hers in the firm (a fellow partner) get let go as well. She was sort of hoping to be on that list, since it came with a 1 year severance package.

As far as the OP's question goes, I've heard rumblings that the job market is starting to tighten up. It's not something that will show up in current unemployment data, though.

It's legal to have mandatory retirement age in the US? I do believe that is illegal is Canada except for a few choice occupations like maybe firefighter or air traffic controller.

 

[crjack]

I work with a lot of different customers/industries in supply chain and many have had layoffs and or hiring freezes. They are uncertain about next year and are being very cautious. I don't see it as an employee market at all right now unless you have a very specific in demand skill set.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Right now I just read that UPS is laying off 12,000 workers. (I realize some of them are probably seasonal). Etsy and EBay and Microsoft have also just done layoffs.

UPS also just reported their earnings today for Fiscal 2023. $9.1B in operating income for the year and they are increasing their dividend from $1.62 per share to $1.63.

For the year they returned $7.6B to shareholders through dividends and share buybacks.

 

[soccerdad72]

It's legal to have mandatory retirement age in the US? I do believe that is illegal is Canada except for a few choice occupations like maybe firefighter or air traffic controller.

Being a partnership and not a public company, they can set whatever rules they want regarding that.

 

[TippyThomas]

Being a partnership and not a public company, they can set whatever rules they want regarding that.

Dang, I didn't know that. I thought age would be considered a protected class in all circumstances. I have very little knowledge of the subject but that really does surprise me.

 

[soccerdad72]

Dang, I didn't know that. I thought age would be considered a protected class in all circumstances. I have very little knowledge of the subject but that really does surprise me.

I found a brief article that discusses it - the ADEA (Federal Age Discrimination in Employment Act) covers employees of firms, but not partners.

https://www.foley.com/insights/publ...tory-retirement-can-you-toss-the-old-guy-out/

 

[TippyThomas]

I found a brief article that discusses it - the ADEA (Federal Age Discrimination in Employment Act) covers employees of firms, but not partners.

https://www.foley.com/insights/publ...tory-retirement-can-you-toss-the-old-guy-out/

Thanks for the link. I certainly didn't understand all of it but I do understand some of it much better now. Thanks again.