Lawsuit Filed by IT Workers over H1B Visas

[com_op_2000]

See this article:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-h1b-visa-lawsuit-20160125-story.html

 

[OKW Lover]

Funny that this story keeps popping up. http://www.disboards.com/threads/another-lawsuit-pending-for-dismissed-it-workers.3466604/

 

[cbsnyber1]

Here is a more detailed report:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...workers-with-immigrants/ar-BBoGljx?li=BBnb7Kv

You have to feel for the two people quoted in the article. I know that corporations are always seeking to lower costs, but in this case, only 250 people affected, for a company the size of Disney - how much is this actually saving them? Disney is hugely profitable, billions of profit every quarter, so how much does this save?.

I also wonder who is telling the truth - Disney clams all but 95 of those affected were hired elsewhere in the company, while the tech guy claims he know of only two of 200 tech people laid off that were rehired by Disney.

 

[hopeful4fl]

Look. The bottomline is if American workers were displaced (in my book, even 1), it goes against what the visas intent was. I am sick of corporations "tweaking" the laws and pushing boundaries with no real consequences. I, for one, will watch this lawsuit and see what the courts have to say.
Please note that Disney is a corporation with shares and I am sure most people (who have investments) are shareholders. Most people on this forum would be in that group, including I. I love the fact when those share prices go up, but when I realize that a "part" of that share value was on the back of American workers, it creates an internal conflict. I WISH corps realized that outsourcing does NOT create that much of a diff on the bottomline (for God's sake if the C suite execs took a little less, they could offset all or most of that) and found a way to be model citizens while increasing their margins.
Guess I am naive.

 

[DVCcurious]

H1B visas are a big part of the bi-partisan immigration bill that passed the Senate and was blocked in the House. If immigration reform passes in the future you'll see a whole lot more H1B visas. Facebook is DYING for more foreign workers.

(I'm trying to find a way to word this so it won't violate the rules against discussing politics, so I think I just have to leave it as statements of fact with no editorializing)

 

[Josh Hendy]

H1B visas are a big part of the bi-partisan immigration bill that passed the Senate and was blocked in the House. If immigration reform passes in the future you'll see a whole lot more H1B visas. Facebook is DYING for more foreign workers.

(I'm trying to find a way to word this so it won't violate the rules against discussing politics, so I think I just have to leave it as statements of fact with no editorializing)

This lawsuit has nothing to do with racism or party politics. Facebook may be dying for more foreign workers but Disney apparently wasn't. If the displaced workers' stories are accurate, this was a case of a large corporation conspiring with a labor contracting firm to submit fraudulent visa application forms to the US govt. That would be a very serious offense ... no matter what party you belong to ... if you tried that without having a ton of lawyers on staff and few congresspeople (of both parties) in your pocket ...

 

[DVCcurious]

This lawsuit has nothing to do with racism or party politics. Facebook may be dying for more foreign workers but Disney apparently wasn't. If the displaced workers' stories are accurate, this was a case of a large corporation conspiring with a labor contracting firm to submit fraudulent visa application forms to the US govt. That would be a very serious offense ... no matter what party you belong to ... if you tried that without having a ton of lawyers on staff and few congresspeople (of both parties) in your pocket ...

I never said it had anything to do with racism. Immigration is an inherently un-racist issue. Someone from Scandinavia is not an American citizen just like someone from Mexico is not an American citizen. Immigration law is race-neutral.

 

[derekleigh]

I've ben watching this whole case since it started making headlines and I'm VERY interested to see how thing play out, the outcome, and future actions of Disney. I love Disney and as a business major completely understands the works of a corporation and it's connections/obligations/etc to shareholders.

However, accountability, sustainability, and community responsibility were areas I've always favored in place of pleasing shareholders (if and when these areas are mutually exclusive). H1b-Visas were designed to fill voids that weren't or couldn't be filled with American labor. It seems that Disney has a lot of explaining to do surrounding these firings, long-term intent (how long was this temp visa going to last and then what afterwards), and the apparent "blackballed" list of not re-hiring those laid out.

From what I've read in a various articles, this was simply a bottomline-focused action. It seemed like some of the former workers had great performance records and should have been no need to replace them unless they were being promoted and Disney needed to temporarily fill the voids after they move up, which however is not the case.

SO it will be interesting to see how this case unfolds

 

[lockedoutlogic]

... if you tried that without having a ton of lawyers on staff and few congresspeople (of both parties) in your pocket ...

...or perhaps if you have been basically running a whole, large, US state when it suits your purposes since 1965?

 

[mick1229]

Disgusting action on Disneys part

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

One of the worlds biggest Disney fans here, but I would love to see this visa program banned not only with Disney, but with all companies.

If we all don't start supporting US jobs more, we all will be out of work!

AKK

 

[kamik86]

Given that they laid off american workers to do this I agree it was an awful thing to do... however at the same time I understand the need for H1B Visa's.

My one department, not my whole company, or even the entire location in my small city just my one department of systems engineers has 20 open positions right now. These range from first year engineers to 10+ years of experience jobs. The pay is really quite good, especially for the area we live in. The company as a whole is desperate for more people in other locations too as they are offering huge referral bonuses to employees to bring in qualified workers.

However we can't find qualified people either in the area or that are willing to move to this area (which is pretty rural and admittedly has quite a few downfalls, but isn't all bad). Now my company cannot take H1B Visas, the work requires US citizenship by law however I can see why other companies turn to that if they are having the same type of staffing issues that we are.

 

[rwdavis2]

Given that they laid off american workers to do this I agree it was an awful thing to do... however at the same time I understand the need for H1B Visa's.

My one department, not my whole company, or even the entire location in my small city just my one department of systems engineers has 20 open positions right now. These range from first year engineers to 10+ years of experience jobs. The pay is really quite good, especially for the area we live in. The company as a whole is desperate for more people in other locations too as they are offering huge referral bonuses to employees to bring in qualified workers.

However we can't find qualified people either in the area or that are willing to move to this area (which is pretty rural and admittedly has quite a few downfalls, but isn't all bad). Now my company cannot take H1B Visas, the work requires US citizenship by law however I can see why other companies turn to that if they are having the same type of staffing issues that we are.

Your company has just not yet raised the salary enough to entice people to work there. There is a salary and benefit package that would fill these positions but the company has not yet offered it. Or maybe they just can't afford it. What area are you located? Don't need to know the exact town.

 

[kamik86]

Your company has just not yet raised the salary enough to entice people to work there. There is a salary and benefit package that would fill these positions but the company has not yet offered it. Or maybe they just can't afford it. What area are you located? Don't need to know the exact town.

That may be true, but since we are a government contractor if they raise the salary too much to stop this location from having lower rates then most competitors the location will lose the work. So there is a balance to that. As I said the pay is actually really good especially for the area (I started just out of college making 62K and have gone up quite a bit in the 7 years I have been here).

Located in western Massachusetts. Two of the main issues with getting people in the area (as we have hired people who moved and then left in less then a year because they hated the area, some without even having other jobs) are
1) that there is no night life to speak of and not much to do in the area that isn't involving the arts, which many engineers aren't as interested in
2) we are really the only engineering company in the area (there are some in Connecticut and Albany but both are a long commute). Well technically there is one other but it is moving in a few months. I can understand the concern with this one, if the area wasn't where I grew up I may not have wanted to move here since I know that if something happens to this company I am going to be forced to move.

To give you the idea of the cost of living compared to a city, my 3 bed, 1.5 bath house with a nice back yard in a very safe area cost 120K.

 

[rwdavis2]

That may be true, but since we are a government contractor if they raise the salary too much to stop this location from having lower rates then most competitors the location will lose the work. So there is a balance to that. As I said the pay is actually really good especially for the area (I started just out of college making 62K and have gone up quite a bit in the 7 years I have been here).

Located in western Massachusetts. Two of the main issues with getting people in the area (as we have hired people who moved and then left in less then a year because they hated the area, some without even having other jobs) are
1) that there is no night life to speak of and not much to do in the area that isn't involving the arts, which many engineers aren't as interested in
2) we are really the only engineering company in the area (there are some in Connecticut and Albany but both are a long commute). Well technically there is one other but it is moving in a few months. I can understand the concern with this one, if the area wasn't where I grew up I may not have wanted to move here since I know that if something happens to this company I am going to be forced to move.

To give you the idea of the cost of living compared to a city, my 3 bed, 1.5 bath house with a nice back yard in a very safe area cost 120K.

I never figured any part of Massashusetts was far from anywhere. ;-) I can see where getting young people to move there would be an issue.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Your company has just not yet raised the salary enough to entice people to work there. There is a salary and benefit package that would fill these positions but the company has not yet offered it. Or maybe they just can't afford it. What area are you located? Don't need to know the exact town.

100% agreement. The company has also probably not put a priority on recruiting and advertising to fill the positions (efforts which need to be made on top of just offering salary and benefits). And your company also has the option to bring in slightly unqualified folks who are really bright but maybe not perfectly skilled-up yet for the work and train them, as companies have done forever, either by paying for degrees they need, apprenticing them to the skilled workers, or offering internal training or a combo of all 3.

 

[rwdavis2]

100% agreement. The company has also probably not put a priority on recruiting and advertising to fill the positions (efforts which need to be made on top of just offering salary and benefits). And your company also has the option to bring in slightly unqualified folks who are really bright but maybe not perfectly skilled-up yet for the work and train them, as companies have done forever, either by paying for degrees they need, apprenticing them to the skilled workers, or offering internal training or a combo of all 3.

Excellent points. Most companies seem to think their employees should arrive fully trained and ready to go and do not want to invest in training. I've seen job reqs so specific that there might be only a handful of people in the country with that combination of skills.

 

[TwoMisfits]

It goes without saying that I hope Disney is made the example for all other US companies on the abuse of these H1B visas...it has gotten blatant and commonplace to the detriment of all Americans. If these companies want to hire overseas folks, have them locate overseas and deal with the conditions in the countries which allow meager wages (like possible government takeovers of their businesses, high crimes, crappy roads, less skilled workers, etc)...if they want to locate here and enjoy all the benefits of the US, they can live with US workers...

 

[Eoghann]

100% agreement. The company has also probably not put a priority on recruiting and advertising to fill the positions (efforts which need to be made on top of just offering salary and benefits). And your company also has the option to bring in slightly unqualified folks who are really bright but maybe not perfectly skilled-up yet for the work and train them, as companies have done forever, either by paying for degrees they need, apprenticing them to the skilled workers, or offering internal training or a combo of all 3.

If they are a government contractor then those aren't actually very good options.

• The people you bid have to meet the skills qualifications in the RFP
• Offering more money makes you uncompetitive because in the current contracting environment price trumps everything. Even then bids that aren't LPTA (Lowest Priced Technically Acceptable) officially, sort of are anyway.
• If you already have the award you have to perform in accordance with the contract. So if it's FFP then you've got a lump sum to work with, CPIF and your fee goes down if you exceed target costs, even CPFF these days usualy has a level of effort clause attached to it.

 

[TwoMisfits]

If they are a government contractor then those aren't actually very good options.

• The people you bid have to meet the skills qualifications in the RFP
• Offering more money makes you uncompetitive because in the current contracting environment price trumps everything. Even then bids that aren't LPTA (Lowest Priced Technically Acceptable) officially, sort of are anyway.
• If you already have the award you have to perform in accordance with the contract. So if it's FFP then you've got a lump sum to work with, CPIF and your fee goes down if you exceed target costs, even CPFF these days usualy has a level of effort clause attached to it.

Don't bid what you can't do...it's not the government's fault if companies routinely underbid to get work and then try to claim cost overruns to get paid what they should have asked for in the 1st place. Honestly, the best thing the government can do in contracts is to make them all fixed price with no changes (since that also drives up costs when the government changes requirements)...and then you bid honestly and you get an honest price. I have been on the side of evaluating government contracts and accepting them...and the 1st thing I looked at is IF the company could even theoretically do the work, not how much they asked for...if I had a Top Secret (TS)-needed contract and you had no current TS workers to fill the task, you were automatically out, since TS takes so long to get...and recruiting workers who have them is no faster...

Companies no longer feel the need to invest in themselves and their people vs paying everything out to stockholders - stopping H1B abuse would start to turn this around b/c it would force companies to start doing what they should already be doing...