latest Thomas Sowell column - gay marriage

[dmadman43]

And this is the crux of the issue in my opinion. You and dmadman have both stated that if it was to put to a vote for gay marriage/civil unions you would vote in favor of it. However it is not high on your priority list therefore you are not campaigning or registering for these votes to take place. Gay men and women are in the minority - because of religious issues people against marriage/civil unions will come out and vote these motions down - people that are for them may or may not depending on high on the priority list it is for them. I've even heard people say well I didn't vote on that becuase it didn't affect me - this topic is being brought to the forefront to hopefully get people who are luke warm on the topic to actually be aware and realize that their vote is needed.

Yes civil unions were voted down - funny huh?

~Amanda

What hard to understand about it not being high on my priority list? What more would you expect me to do? I'm not a proponent of gay causes. I'm sure there are some issues that are important to me that are not high on your priority list, but you might for FOR them were they on a ballot. Why should I expect you to do more?

 

[Chuck S]

I'm sorry you apparently failed 8th Grade civics.

Hardly, the Supreme Court is constantly deciding which cases it will hear.

If the state racial segregation laws were declared unconstitutional, didn't changes go into effect whether the state legislation took any action or not? Unconstitutional means they have no grounds to enforce their existing law, making it, for all intents and purposes, null and void when the decision is rendered.

Remember the judges ruling in MA? It gave the legislature a time limit to change the law. The legislature did not do so, so gay marriage became legal in MA.

 

[septbride2002]

What hard to understand about it not being high on my priority list? What more would you expect me to do? I'm not a proponent of gay causes. I'm sure there are some issues that are important to me that are not high on your priority list, but you might for FOR them were they on a ballot. Why should I expect you to do more?

I didn't say it was hard to understand - try actually reading my post instead of jumping all over me. I didn't say it was FOR YOU to get on the ballot. What I did say is that once it is on the ballot we need people like you to actually get out and vote. You support gay marriage - great! But for some that it might not be high on their priority list then they might not go out and vote. We need people in favor of this to get out and vote we need it to be higher on the priority list.

I think you are so desperate to be right that you are reading way to much into my post. I have tried to remain civil and even friendly with you in this thread and you have done nothing but throw it back in my face and be rude to me. Even though we have disagreeded I always thought you were a nice guy - you are proving me wrong.

~Amanda

 

[dmadman43]

I didn't say it was hard to understand - try actually reading my post instead of jumping all over me. I didn't say it was FOR YOU to get on the ballot. What I did say is that once it is on the ballot we need people like you to actually get out and vote. You support gay marriage - great! But for some that it might not be high on their priority list then they might not go out and vote. We need people in favor of this to get out and vote we need it to be higher on the priority list.

I think you are so desperate to be right that you are reading way to much into my post. I have tried to remain civil and even friendly with you in this thread and you have done nothing but throw it back in my face and be rude to me. Even though we have disagreeded I always thought you were a nice guy - you are proving me wrong.

~Amanda

I misread your meaning. My apologies.

 

[jimmiej]

I find it amusing that the divorce rate in the "Red States" is 22% higher then the "Blue states".

I'm glad to hear of your retirement from teaching.

I haven't retired yet. I teach 6th grade (music) now.

 

[jimmiej]

Jimmi - if you have some evidence showing your point is valid please share it. Otherwise I am growing tired of you asking these mundane questions where people have clearly replied to you and your response back is, "Well it still could be so." Get to the point or get off the pot.

Thanks.

As you are aware, you do not have to respond to my posts. And my username is spelled jimmiej.

 

[Rokkitsci]

And this is the crux of the issue in my opinion. You and dmadman have both stated that if it was to put to a vote for gay marriage/civil unions you would vote in favor of it. However it is not high on your priority list therefore you are not campaigning or registering for these votes to take place. Gay men and women are in the minority - because of religious issues people against marriage/civil unions will come out and vote these motions down - people that are for them may or may not depending on high on the priority list it is for them. I've even heard people say well I didn't vote on that becuase it didn't affect me - this topic is being brought to the forefront to hopefully get people who are luke warm on the topic to actually be aware and realize that their vote is needed.

Yes civil unions were voted down - funny huh?

~Amanda

This will be my last post on this thread - I don't think I can add to anything I have already said. I think I understand your position clearly. Neither of us will change our minds.

Yes - I am lukewarm on this issue - I know of many other issues that I would expend my energy on before I would even think of this one. That is because I sincerely do not think it is a matter of "rights" at all. I think it is just another example of political activism for a larger agenda.

Thank you for a reasonable exchange of ideas - I actually enjoy discussing things with people who have something to say.

Is there a way to terminate a thread? If so - please do so.

 

[Chuck S]

Rokkitsci,

If you truly want this topic thread closed, you may want to PM some board moderators.

 

[frozone]

As you are aware, you do not have to respond to my posts. And my username is spelled jimmiej.

Well, I have responded to your posts, and you haven't answered my questions. Is there some reason you're avoiding me?

I think it would be a shame to close the thread while some people are still waiting for answers. Aren't people free to come and go as they please?

 

[jimmiej]

Well, I have responded to your posts, and you haven't answered my questions. Is there some reason you're avoiding me?

I think it would be a shame to close the thread while some people are still waiting for answers. Aren't people free to come and go as they please?

Here are the questions you asked of me:

So a personal attack is not OK, but your insinuations that the mixing of races is corrupting the institution of marriage somehow is?

You're hiding behind logic, rhetoric, whatever you call it. So it's possible- is this what you believe? Is this something you'd like to see proven?

Could you please specify exacting what you intend in asking this question before I jump to conclusions. Because you *fully* have my attention.

My answer:

Proven? Doubt it's possible. Do I believe it? Whether I do or not, you've already made up your mind about me. My point is, how do we know former generations were wrong about interracial & inter-faith marriages? Because some (many) are happy in those relationships? Why did the divorce rate go up in the last 50 years? There are a lot of reasons, I'm sure. Isn't it possible interracial & inter-faith marriages were part of that? Maybe so, maybe not.

 

[jimmiej]

I really would have liked to bring my daughter to this board while we plan our upcoming trip. But I'm not about to subject her to discrimination and the risk someone telling her that if she choses to marry someone she loves that she'll be harming American "values." Some of you are doing some real damage here and it's a shame you can't see it from behind your shelter of "logic."

frozone-

We don't discuss social issues on the "Disney" boards. I doubt anyone will ask her about her stance on gay marriage on a thread about the pool at Coronado Springs or the characters at Chef Mickey's. If she's not mature enough to handle these issues, just steer her towards the other boards. The DIS is a great place for planning your trip. When you get right down to it, the love of WDW is why the vast majority of us are here. We don't have to agree on social issues to agree WDW is a "magical" place!

 

[Lebjwb]

Nope, actually you are wrong.

Failed to answer the question again dmadman

 

[Lebjwb]

Unless, or until it is proven homosexuality is as genetic as race, your argument is not valid. I don't know of anyone (save perhaps Michael Jackson) that can choose to be another race. We, indeed, have instances of people chosing to be gay. And I do know that many gays believe they never had a choice and it is something they "know" they are. I just don't recall anyone ever saying.. "I just knew I was Black"

So people choose to be gay? Please tell me that you honestly think that is true...please, please, please!

 

[ElwoodBlues2]

sigh - Ok - even though it's been answered a million times in this thread. First - why exactly can't we talk about love and emotion? That's how I decided to get married. Why can't people different than you have that same right unless you are <i>afraid</i> to give it to them?

Because emotional attachment is not a legal requirement to get a marriage license.

Sigh.... they do have the same rights as me. They are free to marry anyone of the opposite sex. Just as I am. Where is the discrimination when both groups have exactly the same rights when it comes to getting a marriage license?

There can't be discrimination if all groups have the same rights and privileges OR restrictions.

Why is that such a hard concept to understand?

And second, you know very well there are things gay couples are legally denied. Why would you even ask this question?

Of course I know that. I've never denied it nor do I think they should have property, financial and health care administration rights denied just because they aren't married. Why can't those legal rights be granted without calling it a marriage? Call it something else. I prefer civil unions. The main reason I don't want the term marriage redefined is because it's always been commonly accepted in most cultures that a marriage is between one man and one woman. The method of how that happens does indeed vary a bit in different cultures. I don't like the fact that some people are forced into marriage by their customs. That is denying someone's rights. The right NOT to marry.

It's asked many times over "why or how does it affect my marriage"? It does because at that point the meaning is lost if only in the traditional sense.

I guess I don't understand why it needs to be changed when there are other methods for same-sex couples to get health care, financial and property administration rights. Lobby your representatives to create new laws that allow that to happen. However, it seems much easier to change it at the top and then have everything else fall in place once the definition is redefined without regard to those that believe that marriage is between one man and one woman.

If you are trying to use dmadman 's illogical logic about the way the law is written to defend being against changing the law, then please stop - you are making my head swim.

Better get a set of water wings for your brain then because the arguments he and I are using aren't in any way illogical.

 

[GaryAdams]

So people choose to be gay? Please tell me that you honestly think that is true...please, please, please!

perhaps you would like to show us all how being gay is genetic?

 

[frozone]

Here are the questions you asked of me:

So a personal attack is not OK, but your insinuations that the mixing of races is corrupting the institution of marriage somehow is?

You're hiding behind logic, rhetoric, whatever you call it. So it's possible- is this what you believe? Is this something you'd like to see proven?

Could you please specify exacting what you intend in asking this question before I jump to conclusions. Because you *fully* have my attention.

My answer:

Proven? Doubt it's possible. Do I believe it? Whether I do or not, you've already made up your mind about me. My point is, how do we know former generations were wrong about interracial & inter-faith marriages? Because some (many) are happy in those relationships? Why did the divorce rate go up in the last 50 years? There are a lot of reasons, I'm sure. Isn't it possible interracial & inter-faith marriages were part of that? Maybe so, maybe not.

jimmiej- look at those questions I asked you again, brother. I haven't made up my mind. I was just waiting for an answer. And, I guess it's OK you don't have one. I think you're question comes from fear and maybe just lack of exposure to different cultures, races, whatever.

But Lord help me, jimmiej, I wish you could meet my daughter. You couldn't help but love her. Everybody does- she's smart, beautiful, and most of all proud. And she's the product of an interracial marriage. I've done right by her because I was ready for the responsibilities of parenthood and her mother was not. Our family hasn't hurt American morality- we've helped it by giving you the gift of my daughter. You folks like Condi Rice? This girl's going to put Condi to shame cause she's going to speak her mind and you'll love her for doing it. You will, jimmiej, just wait. She and others will change your mind with their actions before I do with my words.

 

[Lebjwb]

perhaps you would like to show us all how being gay is genetic?

http://www.narth.com/docs/triplets.html

Have fun...want more? Just ask!

 

[ElwoodBlues2]

Nice try but as usual you're wrong. I'm not here to be nice...What's so nice about carving out a segment of society and saying that you aren't allowed to participate? Put as much lipstick on that pig as you want it's still a pig.

Do you mean the group of heterosexuals that want to marry other heterosexuals of the same sex for the sole benefit of financial, property and health care administration rights that married opposite sex couples that have?

 

[jimmiej]

jimmiej- look at those questions I asked you again, brother. I haven't made up my mind. I was just waiting for an answer. And, I guess it's OK you don't have one. I think you're question comes from fear and maybe just lack of exposure to different cultures, races, whatever.

You presume quite a bit. You might be surprised to know:

I grew up in a community with a 30% black population. Went to school with them, played sports & band with them. I now live in a community that is about 40% Hispanic. I teach their kids, I go to church with them, & consider some of them my good friends. I have three interracial couples in my family. When we get together for holidays, birthdays, etc., literally half of us are black. My youngest DD dated an Hispanic for about a year.

Fear, lack of exposure? Try again.

But Lord help me, jimmiej, I wish you could meet my daughter. You couldn't help but love her. Everybody does- she's smart, beautiful, and most of all proud. And she's the product of an interracial marriage. I've done right by her because I was ready for the responsibilities of parenthood and her mother was not. Our family hasn't hurt American morality- we've helped it by giving you the gift of my daughter. You folks like Condi Rice? This girl's going to put Condi to shame cause she's going to speak her mind and you'll love her for doing it. You will, jimmiej, just wait. She and others will change your mind with their actions before I do with my words.

If you'll look back, I never said interracial marriages hurt morality. I just wondered if it played a part in the high divorce rate.

FYI, I love Condi Rice! I wish she'd run for President. She'd get my vote!

Your daughter sounds like a great kid. I'm glad you have a family you are proud of.

 

[jimmiej]

http://www.narth.com/docs/triplets.html

Have fun...want more? Just ask!

Study of Male Triplets Lends Support to Neurohormonal Theory of Sexual Orientation, Say Psychologists

Lends Support? Hardly proof.