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Show me one parent who gave their kid an military type weapon. Guns are no longer about hunting, guns are marketed as killing machines. This was not my decision
You'll notice that the AK didn't commit suicide by firing itself to death.
It was manipulated by a human who made the conscious decision to perform that act.
Just as Criminals make conscious decisions to use weapons in the commission of their crimes.
Once more;
It's the people.
Not the object.
 
But it's NOT a sentence. Could it stand on it's own? Sure. But it's not.

All I'm saying is the Amendment is not as clear as some would have you believe.

That's what a sentence IS. A phrase that can stand on its own.

The right of the people to keep an bear arms, shall not be infringed--IS a sentence. An oddly written one, but a sentence all the same. The spoke oddly back then or wrote oddly.
 
you had bird rifles in the good old days, not military rifles. So if it is ok to expose my child to nude greek statues in the local museum I guess its ok to let them watch stormy daniels videos.

What are these "military" rifles you keep referring to?
 
Show me one parent who gave their kid an military type weapon. Guns are no longer about hunting, guns are marketed as killing machines. This was not my decision

What are you talking about? You are making no sense at all. Bad people will do bad things with whatever they have available. The Santa Fe shooter did it with a shotgun and 8 shot dove loads and a .38 revolver that the US Military abandoned in 1911 because it was ineffective on the battlefield. Rant about military style weapons all you want but that is not what he used. The kid was off. Maybe because his father showed him porn, maybe because his parents bought him endless first shooter video games, maybe because no one taught him values, and that life matters.

No I did not give my kids military style weapons, but I did give them guns when they reached a certain age and spent countless hours teaching them how to safely use them, maintain them, and respect their power. My kids did not play video games where the consiquinces of pulling a trigger was not fully understood. They were outdoors with me hunting and shooting and understanding the full impact of what pointing a firearm at something and pulling the trigger meant. They know what guns can do, better than you and better than most people who want to ban all guns.

Guns are no longer about hunting? Not sure where you live, but I live in Texas where we harvest almost a million deer per year and countless hogs. Believe me those deer are not being lassoed, they are being shot by the guns that you say are no longer about hunting.

And at least get it right, there are not bird rifles. Shotguns are used for hunting birds. If you want to have the conversation at least act like you know what your talking about.
 

That's what a sentence IS. A phrase that can stand on its own.

The right of the people to keep an bear arms, shall not be infringed--IS a sentence. An oddly written one, but a sentence all the same. The spoke oddly back then or wrote oddly.
Once again, that is not the amendment. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Now, if you, like Gumbo, want to say the 1st half doesn't matter and can be filled with "blah, blah, blah", go ahead. It is a poorly worded amendment. I could say "An umbrella, being necessary because of the chance of rain, you can't keep me from eating pizza."

If you'll notice, I'm not arguing for/against gun control (I've gone back and forth on the issue myself).
 
Once again, that is not the amendment. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Now, if you, like Gumbo, want to say the 1st half doesn't matter and can be filled with "blah, blah, blah", go ahead. It is a poorly worded amendment. I could say "An umbrella, being necessary because of the chance of rain, you can't keep me from eating pizza."

If you'll notice, I'm not arguing for/against gun control (I've gone back and forth on the issue myself).

I didn’t say anything of the sort. You said the second part was not a sentence but yet it is. It is a stand alone phrase and that is what a sentence is. The first part is not a complete sentence.

I read it to say they wanted the people (citizens of the US) to be able to protect the country if so needed. And as such felt the citizens need to be armed. Which makes perfect sense. I can’t figure out how anything else could have been meant.

Now the question is, did they also mean that the people have the right to protect their families, their homes, etc. I would venture to guess that is implied or they couldn’t see that particular right ever being infringed upon in the first place.
 
If you understand history, at the time, armys were controlled by kings, and that is how they stayed in power. Its like that knucklehead in North Korea, he controls the army so he stays in power. What they are trying to do is establish that the army belonged to the people and not the president. I would guess home security was never on their minds at the time. Regardless. the courts have established we can have rules in regards to safety. No one is trying to ban guns, that is floated out there to red meat the base.
 
Show me one parent who gave their kid an military type weapon. Guns are no longer about hunting, guns are marketed as killing machines. This was not my decision

Guns, like any other product in society, are about whatever the people who own them use them for. For me, guns aren't about hunting in the least and I certainly don't intend to use them as killing machines. Frankly, I don't think I've ever seen any marketing of guns whatsoever except for in gun enthusiast magazines, which for the record, no, I don't buy. Remember back in the day how Vans shoes were heavily marketed towards predominantly male skaters? Guess what, as a female non-skater, I bought them for years and could have cared less what they were marketed for. My reason for owning them had absolutely zero to do with what they were marketed for or to whom they were marketed. Same with guns and the NRA. I don't know and don't care what guns are being promoted, the reasons why, etc, nor do I pay attention to what spokespeople for the NRA have to say. I am completely capable of making my own decisions, and I imagine most gun owners feel the same way.

Once again, that is not the amendment. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Now, if you, like Gumbo, want to say the 1st half doesn't matter and can be filled with "blah, blah, blah", go ahead. It is a poorly worded amendment. I could say "An umbrella, being necessary because of the chance of rain, you can't keep me from eating pizza."

If you'll notice, I'm not arguing for/against gun control (I've gone back and forth on the issue myself).

What I was trying to point out earlier in the thread is that the structure of the sentence, like the structure of any sentence in our language, depicts how it's to be read. An example: Well-equipped schools, being necessary for the education of a free state, the right of the people to own and read books, shall not be infringed. The subject of that sentence is not the schools, it's the right (of the people to own and read books). The absolute clause "Well-equipped...free state" gives an indication of the mindset for the subject, but it by no means makes the right of the people to own and read books dependent on schools being in existence, nor limits the right to only those in schools. The sentence simply is not structured that way.

To give a simpler example: The professor being ill, class is cancelled. The subject is the class, the action is it being cancelled. The professor being ill provides background for the sentence, but it can't be taken to mean that class can only ever be cancelled if the professor is ill or that class isn't still cancelled if the professor is actually not sick but just playing hookie.

Likewise, the absolute phrase about the militia gives background info for the subject, but structurally does not make the right of the people limited to the militia or dependent on the existence of a militia or dependent on society viewing a militia as being necessary to the security of a free state. This is not my opinion. It's merely the structure of sentences and how parts of speech function in a sentence.

If you understand history, at the time, armys were controlled by kings, and that is how they stayed in power. Its like that knucklehead in North Korea, he controls the army so he stays in power. What they are trying to do is establish that the army belonged to the people and not the president. I would guess home security was never on their minds at the time. Regardless. the courts have established we can have rules in regards to safety. No one is trying to ban guns, that is floated out there to red meat the base.

Several of our founding fathers were recorded as referencing the security of their homes in regards to the right to own a gun.

The Supreme Court has also established that they see the 2nd amendment as providing individual rather than collective rights to gun ownership as well. They've ruled that the phrase about the militia does not prevent the right of the people to bear arms. Of course that right is not unlimited. No one here is trying to claim that it is or that it should be. We're simply trying to have a discussion about safety that doesn't infringe on our Constitutional rights and will actually work to reduce violence.
 
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If you understand history, at the time, armys were controlled by kings, and that is how they stayed in power. Its like that knucklehead in North Korea, he controls the army so he stays in power. What they are trying to do is establish that the army belonged to the people and not the president. I would guess home security was never on their minds at the time. Regardless. the courts have established we can have rules in regards to safety. No one is trying to ban guns, that is floated out there to red meat the base.
Congressman Eric Swalwell (D) CA, appears to disagree with your statement.
He proposes not just banning, but forced buyback, which by ANY standard constitutes confiscation, of the millions of currently legally owned semi automatic rifles and the prosecution of those who refuse to turn in those arms.
IMHO this would not sit well with the millions of Citizens who own those arms.



From The Washington Times Thursday May 3, 2018
In an editorial in USA Today, Rep. Eric Swalwell proposed a mandatory buyback of all “military-style semiautomatic assault weapons” without any “grandfather clause” for existing weapons or any deference to the Second Amendment — the sort of forced-confiscation plan that gun-rights advocates have warned about and gun-controllers have hotly denied they seek.
The California Democrat called reinstating the federal assault-weapons ban from the 1990s a good beginning, “but it would not affect weapons already possessed.”

“Instead, we should ban possession of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, we should buy back such weapons from all who choose to abide by the law, and we should criminally prosecute any who choose to defy it by keeping their weapons,” Mr. Swalwell said.




 
This might not be possible with the Freedom of Information Act but what I would like to see is no mention of the names of these psychopaths. They are looking for infamy. Don't give it to them.

I think that's an excellent thought. I don't know that there's any way to legally regulate it in most cases, but I do think the main stream media could at least be convinced to tone down the mentioning of the killer's name. Unfortunately, in regards to social media and YouTube, etc, I doubt anything could really be done. I'm not normally about silencing info and free speech, and I don't think there's should necessarily be any laws about saying the killers name, but it sure would be nice if they werent so sensationalized. Perhaps less people would try to emulate them if they see that other killers don't live on in infamy.
 
This might not be possible with the Freedom of Information Act but what I would like to see is no mention of the names of these psychopaths. They are looking for infamy. Don't give it to them.
The Freedom Of Information Act only prohibits the Government from withholding facts that are germane to the Public Welfare or information that is gathered by Government agencies funded by American taxes.
The Press would have to become a leading actor in any attempt to keep the names of sick murderers out of the Public's eye.
I hold no illusions that anything like this will occur since virtually all media operate on the "If it bleeds, it leads" journalistic genre.
 
Your comment makes absolutely no sense to me. Not in the I think the logic in your argument is flawed sense, but in the I have no idea what in the world you are trying to say sense.

Say it with me: mil-it-cia. That is the word that qualifies the sentence in the amendment. Easy.
 
Say it with me: mil-it-cia. That is the word that qualifies the sentence in the amendment. Easy.
Look at it this way, if your people weren't such a conquering people especially in the past. Non of this would be. The Americans felt the need for guns, to keep you people out. And they were successful.
 
Look at it this way, if your people weren't such a conquering people especially in the past. Non of this would be. The Americans felt the need for guns, to keep you people out. And they were successful.

This is certainly true, but not really relevant to the current day. I'm not sure, but Queen Elizabeth II doesn't seem ready to crack out the ol' war ships at the moment...
 
The amendment specifies that a militia is required. You can't get clearer than that.

In 2008 the Supreme Court decided that was not the case.

Besides a militia is made up of citizens, as long as there are citizens to call on in need, there will always be a militia.
If you and your citizens prefer to wait to see if you ever need to protect yourselves feel free, but we Americans aren't British subjects any longer so what you think of what are Amendments say doesn't really matter. In this case, it has been decided by our own Supreme Court. (I'm saying this because you are the one to bring up your Queen).
 
So what is the video suppose to be showing me? That if you fire 300 rounds in a automatic rifle, (which by the way takes a lot of hoops to jump through and a lot of money to own) the gun is going to fail? Most gun owner know that. Ever see what 00 buckshot can do when fired from a "bird gun?" I can make the barrel hot on my semi-automatic "bird gun" by shooting and reloading.
 
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