Latest Arguments in DAS Lawsuit

My parents had to wait 42 years to take my handicapped brother to Disney World. It wasn’t until he had years of intense therapy at his group home that he was able to deal with the overstimulation, change in routine, waiting, and behaving properly in public required for the trip. If he had never gotten to the point of being able to handle it, they never would have taken it.

It boggles my mind how people have seen Disney’s good corporate citizen approach to helping the disabled and twisted it to an entitlement that they get what they want when they want it.
 
I am curious as to what these parents do with their children, who apparently cannot wait at all in a line, when they are at the grocery checkout, in a TSA line at the airport (even the handicapped TSA line has a wait), waiting to get on/off an airplane, waiting for the school bus, etc.

I have 2 adult sons with disabilities; one Autism and one Down syndrome. They have learned to wait over the years in all kinds of lines. We didn't take our kids, when they were kid age to Disney World until we had gone to other, smaller theme parks, local festivals, etc. and we were confident that they could handle a place like Disney World. If they had not learned when they were younger, they would have never had the opportunity to go. I would not subject myself or other park goers to their tantrums. But that is just me, trying to be considerate of other people.

Most grocery lines aren't 2 hours long and it's not 100+ degrees inside a grocery store. Disney is challenging for typical children and a child with a disability makes it more challenging.
 
I want to comment on the posters that say "teach your autistic child to cope or behave, as we have". I get what they are saying, which I am sure every person with an autistic child hopes to achieve, HOWEVER, I am sure the majority of these family really need a break from their every day struggles and I am sure they don't want to deal with their child's behaviors at Disney after spending thousands of dollars and trying to relax themselves. It should be the parents who decide what is going to work for their child. People should not be judging them when they know nothing about their families.
 
I want to comment on the posters that say "teach your autistic child to cope or behave, as we have". I get what they are saying, which I am sure every person with an autistic child hopes to achieve, HOWEVER, I am sure the majority of these family really need a break from their every day struggles and I am sure they don't want to deal with their child's behaviors at Disney after spending thousands of dollars and trying to relax themselves. It should be the parents who decide what is going to work for their child. People should not be judging them when they know nothing about their families.

I hear what you are saying and it is with a good heart. In a perfect world everyone would have what they need when they needed it. Unfortunately that is not the world we live in. Disney did try to make it as easy for those who needed it until human greed ruined it. Yes parents should decide what will work for their kids to a point. But you do also need to prepare them for the realities that most of the time that won't happen. It does not matter where you are or how much you spend, the fact is the world will not always accommodate a person. And if a child is unable/incapable of adapting to what is offered then it would probably be better to do something else until they are ready.
 
My parents had to wait 42 years to take my handicapped brother to Disney World. It wasn’t until he had years of intense therapy at his group home that he was able to deal with the overstimulation, change in routine, waiting, and behaving properly in public required for the trip. If he had never gotten to the point of being able to handle it, they never would have taken it.

It boggles my mind how people have seen Disney’s good corporate citizen approach to helping the disabled and twisted it to an entitlement that they get what they want when they want it.

If you are talking about the family in the lawsuit then maybe I see your point to some limited extent. On the other hand, just because your parents chose to handle your brother that way does not mean everybody should share their philosophy.

I know a family who has a severely impacted son who has lived in a school setting since the age of 10 due to severe aggression. The parents had the monetary means to be able to put him in this setting and it definitely seems like he was unable to live effectively at home. However, they are also freed up to take trips all around the world with their other two typical kids. They have him some weekends and whatnot but are now largely free of the responsibility of that child though I’m sure it hurts their hearts to have put him there. So they could go to Disney sans their disabled son and, maybe someday, like your parents, will include him in a trip when his functioning allows him to cope with such a trip. In the meantime, they can provide all sorts of experiences for the other two kids. I do not envy this family because their son is much worse off than mine in terms of functioning. However, sometimes I wish I could leave him with someone for a week and get a break with my other two children. His behaviors require constant vigilance and it’s much more exhausting. I am not going to avoid any trips just because he may have a meltdown (he’s not violent so I’m not concerned about public safety like original family). In fact, I think we need to start doing more things rather than insulating him. That’s the only way he’s going to ever learn. Just the other day we went to the store. He was great the whole time but he didn’t want to leave. We provided ample warnings and transition cues but he still threw himself on the floor and screamed when it was time to checkout. The lady behind us was less than amused and loudly screamed “Excuse me” at him. He wasn’t even really in her way. It just seemed she wanted to make it known that she thought I was a horrible parent. Sometimes I just want to put a sign on him that says “Autism” please keep your opinions to yourself. So now do I take him back to the store and endure another embarrassing situation in the effort to teach him these things or stay at home cloistered. I think the only real answer is that he needs to learn. He’s capable of learning but it’s going to be dicey. Mind you the little meltdown lasted less than 1 minute as I redirected him. It wasn’t an ongoing thing.
 
Most grocery lines aren't 2 hours long and it's not 100+ degrees inside a grocery store. Disney is challenging for typical children and a child with a disability makes it more challenging.

I agree. I also try to be considerate of people around me and rarely take my children into crowded restaurants or nicer restaurants until I’m confident they can behave properly. That’s a place people are going to relax and enjoy a quiet adult meal so I think it’s reasonable to keep my loud autistic child out of there for now. On the other hand, Disney World is a place designed for kids. There will be many kids there having tantrums and meltdowns that are not autistic. I’m not going to stay home because my autistic child will have some dicey moments just like any other child. They may be over silly things and hard to predict but since he’s like a developmentally typical 3 year old and there are plenty of 3 year old children around I don’t think it’s a stretch to ask some other patrons to show compassion rather than disgust when he’s having a hard time.

This is also my approach to stores. I usually try to keep my kids (well actually just my autistic one because the other two are almost always well behaved) out of stores and go when my husband is home. However, I’m starting to take a new approach. He needs to learn this and how else do I teach it???? But I’m getting redundant. Lol
 
If you are talking about the family in the lawsuit then maybe I see your point to some limited extent. On the other hand, just because your parents chose to handle your brother that way does not mean everybody should share their philosophy.

I know a family who has a severely impacted son who has lived in a school setting since the age of 10 due to severe aggression. The parents had the monetary means to be able to put him in this setting and it definitely seems like he was unable to live effectively at home. However, they are also freed up to take trips all around the world with their other two typical kids. They have him some weekends and whatnot but are now largely free of the responsibility of that child though I’m sure it hurts their hearts to have put him there. So they could go to Disney sans their disabled son and, maybe someday, like your parents, will include him in a trip when his functioning allows him to cope with such a trip. In the meantime, they can provide all sorts of experiences for the other two kids. I do not envy this family because their son is much worse off than mine in terms of functioning. However, sometimes I wish I could leave him with someone for a week and get a break with my other two children. His behaviors require constant vigilance and it’s much more exhausting. I am not going to avoid any trips just because he may have a meltdown (he’s not violent so I’m not concerned about public safety like original family). In fact, I think we need to start doing more things rather than insulating him. That’s the only way he’s going to ever learn. Just the other day we went to the store. He was great the whole time but he didn’t want to leave. We provided ample warnings and transition cues but he still threw himself on the floor and screamed when it was time to checkout. The lady behind us was less than amused and loudly screamed “Excuse me” at him. He wasn’t even really in her way. It just seemed she wanted to make it known that she thought I was a horrible parent. Sometimes I just want to put a sign on him that says “Autism” please keep your opinions to yourself. So now do I take him back to the store and endure another embarrassing situation in the effort to teach him these things or stay at home cloistered. I think the only real answer is that he needs to learn. He’s capable of learning but it’s going to be dicey. Mind you the little meltdown lasted less than 1 minute as I redirected him. It wasn’t an ongoing thing.

You sound like a great mom and I agree, it's not fair to your other children to deprive them because your son might not be able to adjust at times. I would keep taking him out and teaching him he has to adjust, even if he has a meltdown and scr*w anyone around you that doesn't like it. The fact that his meltdown was only a minute is key. I can't believe the lady said something to you when she saw your son having a meltdown. What a moron. Why can't people mind their own damn business?
 


I hear what you are saying and it is with a good heart. In a perfect world everyone would have what they need when they needed it. Unfortunately that is not the world we live in. Disney did try to make it as easy for those who needed it until human greed ruined it. Yes parents should decide what will work for their kids to a point. But you do also need to prepare them for the realities that most of the time that won't happen. It does not matter where you are or how much you spend, the fact is the world will not always accommodate a person. And if a child is unable/incapable of adapting to what is offered then it would probably be better to do something else until they are ready.

I agree with you and I am by no means saying anyone with a disability should be able to walk onto any ride in Disney. I think the present system Disney has enacted is very fair. I am sure there are some who take advantage of the system (like any other system in Disney) but I am sure for some the DAS really helps their family's vacation be much less stressful and more enjoyable.
 
Sometimes I just want to put a sign on him that says “Autism” please keep your opinions to yourself.
Seriously, what about a shirt for you saying, "Autism Family, keep your opinions to yourself"? I went to cafepress.com to see about designing one, and they already have a lot https://www.cafepress.com/+autism+gifts!
So now do I take him back to the store and endure another embarrassing situation
Yes, you take him back to the store. As often as you feel you need. Anybody who comments, give the 'mother death glare'.
 
Seriously, what about a shirt for you saying, "Autism Family, keep your opinions to yourself"? I went to cafepress.com to see about designing one, and they already have a lot https://www.cafepress.com/+autism+gifts!

Yes, you take him back to the store. As often as you feel you need. Anybody who comments, give the 'mother death glare'.

I agree with this. Children, typical or not, only learn from experience. Although seeing any child have a meltdown is upsetting, I don't get frustrated unless the parent is ignoring the child and doing nothing to resolve the situation. When someone comments inappropriately, explaining the situation might be a better choice than the mother death glare since it would at least be an attempt to educate that person so that they too will learn from experience.
 
I personally don't get why anyone, neurotypical or no, would wait in a two-hour line. If the posted wait time is over 30 minutes and no Fast pass is available, I move on to something else and come back later. It's even better now that I have a smartphone and can check wait times from anywhere.

On a typical day the popular rides can easily have 45-120 minute waits the entire day other than rope drop and sometimes in the last 30 minutes before park closing. I've found the wait times on MDE app aren't all that accurate. Touring Plans seems a bit better but still not accurate enough to rely on.

Knowing the ins and outs of each park prevents us from waiting in any long lines our entire trip. Knowing crowd patterns, FP usage, etc. works for us. TP has been spot on in creating a day plan.
 
I agree with you and I am by no means saying anyone with a disability should be able to walk onto any ride in Disney. I think the present system Disney has enacted is very fair. I am sure there are some who take advantage of the system (like any other system in Disney) but I am sure for some the DAS really helps their family's vacation be much less stressful and more enjoyable.

DAS has worked well for us and really helped enjoy Disney where it otherwise would be very problematic. The only minor issue I have is in explaining to the CM at guest services why I need a DAS. They have little medical background and sometimes have a difficult time understanding our needs. Often their solutions are way off. Can't be upset with them though, they're put into a difficult position and we're usually able to work things out in the end.
 
I personally don't get why anyone, neurotypical or no, would wait in a two-hour line. If the posted wait time is over 30 minutes and no Fast pass is available, I move on to something else and come back later. It's even better now that I have a smartphone and can check wait times from anywhere.

I know, when I saw a 300 minute (5 hour) wait for slinky dog, I LOL. Come on, can you imagine waiting that long for a 2 minute ride? I cannot believe there are that many people that would ever wait that long.
 
Again, hope I'm not getting too off topic here, but since you asked the question and I feel like I might be able to help answer - some kids with autism can have significant issues with rigidity and / or OCD. So as I mentioned upthread, it may be the 'transition' families who are the worst off here, because once the idea that he was going to ride a particular ride over and over with no wait became a ritual then that can be - yikes. For example, I've worked in situations where kids were used to having unrestricted access to swings while on break, and then after an occupational therapy eval, the OT concluded that this was overstimulating, so access should be on a schedule or limited. That can cause huge meltdowns and take weeks to work on, and that's with full support staff. It's not that they couldn't wait for the swings at all - they could - it's just that they expected to have free access to them during breaks. In my personal experience some of the most severe and potentially dangerous behaviors I have come across involve interrupting a ritualistic or rigid behavior, so I think that can be a very big deal.


I do question whether or not it was a good idea to bring a child with that level of difficulty regulating to Disney in the first place, if that is the case. I mean, in those cases, even if he was ok when engaged in the ritual, the family was still likely skating on pretty thin ice in hoping that something else didn't go wrong or set off his OCD or rigid behaviors. But, if they felt they were able to manage and then everything changed, I can see how that could be the difference between them being able to attend the park or not. (That's assuming all the arguments in that case are in good faith. I realize that people do try to 'game the system' or just go after settlement money, and I'm not familiar with this case - but I do think it's at least possible that this child kind of slipped through the cracks in the change between systems.)
I totally understand the OCD however I believe the particular family who started the suit comes from Canada. How often would this young man be coming to Disney to be in a routine of riding it over and over? He isn't a local that comes every day.
 
I am curious as to what these parents do with their children, who apparently cannot wait at all in a line, when they are at the grocery checkout, in a TSA line at the airport (even the handicapped TSA line has a wait), waiting to get on/off an airplane, waiting for the school bus, etc.

I have 2 adult sons with disabilities; one Autism and one Down syndrome. They have learned to wait over the years in all kinds of lines. We didn't take our kids, when they were kid age to Disney World until we had gone to other, smaller theme parks, local festivals, etc. and we were confident that they could handle a place like Disney World. If they had not learned when they were younger, they would have never had the opportunity to go. I would not subject myself or other park goers to their tantrums. But that is just me, trying to be considerate of other people.

I can answer this for my sons with autism. It isn't the act of waiting in a line that is the issue. It is the ENVIRONMENT of most queues at Disney that causes sensory overload, creates anxiety, and sets up situations with strangers that can be awkward or unwelcome (my child will FREAK the heck out if anyone bumps into him accidentally and he just does not grasp the concept of personal space so he gets all up in strangers space by standing uncomfortably close to them, as just one example) Disney's queues are often dark, loud, themed, have switchbacks that make you feel surrounded/trapped, and are often claustrophobic. It is a combination of these things that creates problems for us in SOME rides at Disney. We have no issues with lines that are largely outdoors, shaded, and feel like a single file line. We wait in those lines without issue. We use the DAS for specific rides only, because the queue creates problems.

In our day to day life, we wait in all kinds of lines, wait at the doctors office, wait at restaurants, wait in traffic, etc. Airports are no problem because we bought Pre Check, so we basically have a Fastpass for security where we don't have any demands placed on us such as removing clothing, removing liquids and large electronics, etc. It's an under 5 min process and very similar to Disney's security checks so the kids breeze right through it. The difference is, in real life, the lines we wait in are super minor, don't have hundreds of people in them, aren't in super loud and immersive environments, and don't engage the senses the way Disney lines do.
 
I can answer this for my sons with autism. It isn't the act of waiting in a line that is the issue. It is the ENVIRONMENT of most queues at Disney that causes sensory overload, creates anxiety, and sets up situations with strangers that can be awkward or unwelcome (my child will FREAK the heck out if anyone bumps into him accidentally and he just does not grasp the concept of personal space so he gets all up in strangers space by standing uncomfortably close to them, as just one example) Disney's queues are often dark, loud, themed, have switchbacks that make you feel surrounded/trapped, and are often claustrophobic. It is a combination of these things that creates problems for us in SOME rides at Disney. We have no issues with lines that are largely outdoors, shaded, and feel like a single file line. We wait in those lines without issue. We use the DAS for specific rides only, because the queue creates problems.

In our day to day life, we wait in all kinds of lines, wait at the doctors office, wait at restaurants, wait in traffic, etc. Airports are no problem because we bought Pre Check, so we basically have a Fastpass for security where we don't have any demands placed on us such as removing clothing, removing liquids and large electronics, etc. It's an under 5 min process and very similar to Disney's security checks so the kids breeze right through it. The difference is, in real life, the lines we wait in are super minor, don't have hundreds of people in them, aren't in super loud and immersive environments, and don't engage the senses the way Disney lines do.

Your description of the lines for rides is pretty much the same as the entire park. The whole park is one sensory assault after another. How does your child react to being bumped while walking around the park? I imagine that happens fairly often. It worries me when parents expect other people to adjust to their child's behaviors. If he were to crowd in my daughter's personal space she would be likely to tell him to back off. How do you handle that?
 
I want to comment on the posters that say "teach your autistic child to cope or behave, as we have". I get what they are saying, which I am sure every person with an autistic child hopes to achieve, HOWEVER, I am sure the majority of these family really need a break from their every day struggles and I am sure they don't want to deal with their child's behaviors at Disney after spending thousands of dollars and trying to relax themselves. It should be the parents who decide what is going to work for their child. People should not be judging them when they know nothing about their families.

No, it should not be the parents who decide what works. You will than have parents saying what works for my kid is looping rides, going to the front of the line to see characters, and the ability to skip the lines at quick service, ohh and my child needs to get into a fully booked restaurant despite us not having a reservation. When you have people suing Disney because their child is no longer allowed to loop space mountain 8x on a busy summer day you have to realize how much people will take advantage
 
No, it should not be the parents who decide what works. You will than have parents saying what works for my kid is looping rides, going to the front of the line to see characters, and the ability to skip the lines at quick service, ohh and my child needs to get into a fully booked restaurant despite us not having a reservation. When you have people suing Disney because their child is no longer allowed to loop space mountain 8x on a busy summer day you have to realize how much people will take advantage

Yes, there are "some" people who will always take advantage/cheat the system of anything that if offered. Just because one person is suing, don't paint a picture like everyone is disgruntled, that's not fair. If a DAS is offered to disabled guests/children, yes, than their parents should decide if they need one and take advantage of it.
 
I personally don't get why anyone, neurotypical or no, would wait in a two-hour line. If the posted wait time is over 30 minutes and no Fast pass is available, I move on to something else and come back later. It's even better now that I have a smartphone and can check wait times from anywhere.

I’m with you. There are rides I can’t ride yet because the lines are silly and I live close enough not to need to stay overnight. If I don’t have a fast pass, I just don’t go.
 

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