"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[kaytieeldr]

So by yall’s suggestion, if I have a student and a parent in my office (happens two or three times a day) and I am speaking to the parent, I should say “they need to . . .”

What's wrong with, "[Name] needs to..." or, " Your child needs to... "?

Also, on the beating that “act like a lady” has gotten here—I have been told from a young age it just means to be polite, have grace, and to be kind.

Yet, not all women are ladies and not all men are gentlemen.

Some of us just find it hard to believe that "ladies and gentlemen" is not only not inclusive enough but offensive to some. I guess you could say the same about "boys and girls".

Along the lines I answered @luvsJack, not every adult is, or possibly is deserving of, the assumption that they behave the way ladies and gentlemen implies. You know what else offends me? Pat Said I taking the hand of female finalists on the way to play the bonus puzzle, but not the mens' hands. It's condescending.

But I still watch.

 

[luvsJack]

[

What's wrong with, "[Name] needs to..." or, " Your child needs to... "?

Yet, not all women are ladies and not all men are gentlemen.

Along the lines I answered @luvsJack, not every adult is, or possibly is deserving of, the assumption that they behave the way ladies and gentlemen implies. You know what else offends me? Pat Said I taking the hand of female finalists on the way to play the bonus puzzle, but not the mens' hands. It's condescending.

But I still watch.

Nothing at all. It was just an example. In most anyone's day to day life working with people, pronouns are going to be used. And I was pointing out that using they/them/whatever could be offensive to some too.

If someone tells me they want to be referred to as "hello kitty", hey! whatever makes them happy, I will be more than happy to oblige. But that doesn't mean asking the next student if they want to be called "pound puppy" isn't going to offend them. So, while I don't have a problem in the world changing terminology for someone when referring to and about THEM, I don't think asking every person is necessarily the way to go either.

 

[skyblue17]

I've found that a lot of people now include their pronouns in their email signature or in places where short bios are allowed (such as on social media). That alone takes away some of the confusion regarding how to refer to someone. Think of all the gender neutral names in the world, too. What do you default to when you are unsure of that person's gender? Why not adopt that more generally? We use the word "they" to refer to people all of the time, why would that be offensive to someone?

 

[Hikergirl]

Looks like Always has jumped on the ridiculous bandwagon
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10...emale-symbol-maxipad-wrapper-trans-inclusive/
https://news.yahoo.com/always-sanitary-pads-removes-female-symbol-110431899.html
I've been an Always user for pretty much my entire life and never even paid attention to the logo.
Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this?
Not "being" included is the least of their worries if that is how they choose to go through life- looking to have hurt feelings over something as dumb as the female symbol on feminine hygiene products. (Which i'm sure that is also an offensive term now too to them ).

 

[luvsJack]

I've found that a lot of people now include their pronouns in their email signature or in places where short bios are allowed (such as on social media). That alone takes away some of the confusion regarding how to refer to someone. Think of all the gender neutral names in the world, too. What do you default to when you are unsure of that person's gender? Why not adopt that more generally? We use the word "they" to refer to people all of the time, why would that be offensive to someone?

I don't think using "they" would necessarily be offensive to anyone, I mean that questioning someone's preference can be seen as offensive to someone who fights the battle daily because they are already thought to look like the opposite sex. 18-20 year olds can get their feelings hurt easily and asking a masculine looking girl (who is straight) "what pronoun do you prefer" as was suggested, could be devastating to her.

 

[skyblue17]

Looks like Always has jumped on the ridiculous bandwagon
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10...emale-symbol-maxipad-wrapper-trans-inclusive/
https://news.yahoo.com/always-sanitary-pads-removes-female-symbol-110431899.html
I've been an Always user for pretty much my entire life and never even paid attention to the logo.
Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this?
Not "being" included is the least of their worries if that is how they choose to go through life- looking to have hurt feelings over something as dumb as the female symbol on feminine hygiene products. (Which i'm sure that is also an offensive term now too to them ).

So let them worry about it? You seem to care a lot about how much they do or don't care about something you admit is dumb to care about. Is that somehow less ridiculous than the original caring?

 

[luvsJack]

Looks like Always has jumped on the ridiculous bandwagon
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10...emale-symbol-maxipad-wrapper-trans-inclusive/
https://news.yahoo.com/always-sanitary-pads-removes-female-symbol-110431899.html
I've been an Always user for pretty much my entire life and never even paid attention to the logo.
Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this?
Not "being" included is the least of their worries if that is how they choose to go through life- looking to have hurt feelings over something as dumb as the female symbol on feminine hygiene products. (Which i'm sure that is also an offensive term now too to them ).

Would love a show of hands of how many people actually knew the symbol was even there. Honestly, some just really do go through life looking for things to get in a twist over.

 

[skyblue17]

I don't think using "they" would necessarily be offensive to anyone, I mean that questioning someone's preference can be seen as offensive to someone who fights the battle daily because they are already thought to look like the opposite sex. 18-20 year olds can get their feelings hurt easily and asking a masculine looking girl (who is straight) "what pronoun do you prefer" as was suggested, could be devastating to her.

Then don't ask. Those who want you to know will tell you and if you don't know, either speak as you always have to that person or speak generally. I promise it is not a federal case.

 

[L&Lfan]

Why would anyone but women be using Always? I don’t get it...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The Always thing doesn't bother me personally speaking. Did it have to be removed? Nah. Did it need to stay? Nah.

I do think people's perception of issues can depend on how it's brought to light. Sometimes I myself am turned off by causes depending on how they are handled, brought to light, and talked about.

 

[DuskKodesh]

I think a lot of people are confusing individuals with corporations in this topic. These examples being brought up are corporate marketing decisions. Do I believe the corporations actually care? No. Corporations never care. Everything they do is a strategic decision based on a marketing climate. It can be completely divorced of their clientele's wants and needs (I mean, we're on a Disney board and look at how much stuff Disney does as marketing that has people here scratching their heads). That's why things like this come out as an announcement and are not just quietly new policy where no one would ever notice. They put out an announcement and it spreads for them in news outlets, social media, and both pro and anti circles.

There is no such thing as bad publicity - P.T. Barnum

 

[skyblue17]

Why would anyone but women be using Always? I don’t get it...

A non-binary person might get their period. It's also possible that someone who identifies and/or is transitioning to male still gets their period.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think a lot of people are confusing individuals with corporations in this topic. These examples being brought up are corporate marketing decisions. Do I believe the corporations actually care? No. Corporations never care. Everything they do is a strategic decision based on a marketing climate. It can be completely divorced of their clientele's wants and needs (I mean, we're on a Disney board and look at how much stuff Disney does as marketing that has people here scratching their heads). That's why things like this come out as an announcement and are not just quietly new policy where no one would ever notice. They put out an announcement and it spreads for them in news outlets, social media, and both pro and anti circles.

There is no such thing as bad publicity - P.T. Barnum

I agree but I would have left out the PT Barnum quote. Negative, luke-warm,so-so reviews combined with Disney's decision to have 1 ride open, etc and whatnot def. impacted attendance and reception of SWGE. This entire summer was filled with article after article after article about how low the crowds were, how SWGE wasn't getting people in, how SWGE failed in this way or that way, etc.

Companies aren't completely impervious to the public opinion. There is however short-term vs long-term outcomes. Most decisions that create waves in a not so nice light probably are more short-term in comparison to the long-term. That isn't always the case though.

 

[Searc]

Looks like Always has jumped on the ridiculous bandwagon
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10...emale-symbol-maxipad-wrapper-trans-inclusive/
https://news.yahoo.com/always-sanitary-pads-removes-female-symbol-110431899.html
I've been an Always user for pretty much my entire life and never even paid attention to the logo.
Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this?
Not "being" included is the least of their worries if that is how they choose to go through life- looking to have hurt feelings over something as dumb as the female symbol on feminine hygiene products. (Which i'm sure that is also an offensive term now too to them ).

Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this? I 100% agree.

 

[DuskKodesh]

I agree but I would have left out the PT Barnum quote. Negative, luke-warm,so-so reviews combined with Disney's decision to have 1 ride open, etc and whatnot def. impacted attendance and reception of SWGE. This entire summer was filled with article after article after article about how low the crowds were, how SWGE wasn't getting people in, how SWGE failed in this way or that way, etc.

Companies aren't completely impervious to the public opinion. There is however short-term vs long-term outcomes. Most decisions that create waves in a not so nice light probably are more short-term in comparison to the long-term. That isn't always the case though.

I decided to throw in the quote because I was honestly remembering the old Howard Stern controversy where his fans listened for an average time that was far less than his critics. My brain always goes to things like that but I didn't mean it to sound like such issues are spectacle at all, being as I'm genderqueer myself (Something I don't really share usually and just quietly put into my bios). I also have several companies in my permanent boycott list so I know what you mean as far as short-term vs long term.

 

[Hikergirl]

Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this? I 100% agree.

Discussing your thoughts on something doesn't mean you have an issue with it, other than expressing your opinion about such things.
Actively seeking to change something means you do have a real issue.
Remind me again who it is actively seeking to change these kind of things because their feelings aren't being considered?

 

[Searc]

Discussing your thoughts on something doesn't mean you have an issue with it, other than expressing your opinion about such things.
Actively seeking to change something means you do have a real issue.
Remind me again who it is actively seeking to change these kind of things because their feelings aren't being considered?

Actively discussing it for 17 pages means you have an issue with it.

 

[VandVsmama]

Looks like Always has jumped on the ridiculous bandwagon
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10...emale-symbol-maxipad-wrapper-trans-inclusive/
https://news.yahoo.com/always-sanitary-pads-removes-female-symbol-110431899.html
I've been an Always user for pretty much my entire life and never even paid attention to the logo.
Are people so fragile that they have an issue with this?
Not "being" included is the least of their worries if that is how they choose to go through life- looking to have hurt feelings over something as dumb as the female symbol on feminine hygiene products. (Which i'm sure that is also an offensive term now too to them ).

I don't really care how they label the packaging. The truth of the matter is this comes down to simple biology. If you have a certain female reproductive system organ and get a period, you will need products such as maxipads and tampons. And if you don't have a uterus, you might have someone in your life who you would need to purchase such products for.

You can use whatever pronouns you want, consider yourself male, female, non-binary, whatever. No uterus? No maxipads required. It's pretty simple.

 

[skyblue17]

Discussing your thoughts on something doesn't mean you have an issue with it, other than expressing your opinion about such things.
Actively seeking to change something means you do have a real issue.
Remind me again who it is actively seeking to change these kind of things because their feelings aren't being considered?

I recently realized that the packaging of the pads I use is blue! BLUE! That's BOY COLORS! It used to be purple which was at least you need PINK to make PURPLE, so the PURPLE would at least remind me that I am a WOMAN because PINK is for GIRLS. But now it's just BLUE! Do they even CARE about me?!

(What's that about ridiculous again?)

 

[luvsJack]

I recently realized that the packaging of the pads I use is blue! BLUE! That's BOY COLORS! It used to be purple which was at least you need PINK to make PURPLE, so the PURPLE would at least remind me that I am a WOMAN because PINK is for GIRLS. But now it's just BLUE! Do they even CARE about me?!

(What's that about ridiculous again?)

Funny and yes ridiculous. How many times thought have women (or men) asked for packaging to be changed to suit them?