"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[kaytieeldr]

I said it before and I’ll say it again- ladies and gentlemen INCLUDES everyone.

The term disincludes any person of any gender who is not polite, refined, well-spoken, courteous, honorable...

I'm fine with "everyone" and am confused as to how this became a press release.

"Everyone", or, in this case, "passengers".

 

[kaytieeldr]

This whole thing blows my mind. Genderfluid?? Ladies and gentlemen being offensive?? Sigh....

To pedants like me, yes. Not because of gender, but did to presumed but unproven degrees of politeness.

Nope it's pretty much the mentally fragile that need to be coddled because hearing terms like "ladies and gentlemen" when addressing a group of people,makes them feel like they aren't included, who are the snowflakes.

Nope. Just, again, "ladies & gentleman is far from inclusive of society as a whole.

My issue is that we have gone off the deep end trying to appease everyone's "feelings".

Changing phrasing is "going off the deep end?" Seems like a severe overreaction.

Every flight I'm on could start their announcement with, 'Good afternoon, you stupid idiots...' and I wouldn't care, or 'Good afternoon to only the aliens on board with us'

Or even, " Welcome aboard, all of you who trust this huge metal tube to take off, fly, and land safely and on schedule... "

C'mon, sing it with me now... You make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel like a natural woman.

Or wait, is that song no longer PC?

"Lady" is not synonymous with "woman."

 

[Toolulu22]

I can see what you're saying - any kid in the class can choose on any given day whether they want to act like a lady or a gentleman, as long they're not acting like a hellion.

But, to avoid the subject all together, many teachers lately have been using terms based on the students' year in school or the subject we're studying right then - like "3rd graders" or "mathematicians" or "readers".

(I actually find it keeps them on their toes if I switch it up.)

This is what I try to do in my classroom- use “9th graders” or “scientists” (which gets a chuckle).

The idea of gender fluidity is new and confusing to many of my peers and parents, and me. I figure it must also be so for people first experiencing it. I never cared about what went on behind someone else’s doors (their sexuality) and still don’t. But, I have to teach in an environment where hormones are raging. I just try to be as sensitive as I can, keep the pronoun straight, and don’t judge. I have boys who wear makeup, girls who dress like boys, and a girl who half way through last year asked to be called by a different name and the pronoun “they”.

So, you do you.
I just want to teach and get through my year.

 

[Hikergirl]

Changing phrasing is "going off the deep end?" Seems like a severe overreaction.

Yes absolutely. Changing the phrasing IS a severe overreaction

 

[kaytieeldr]

Truer words... (Do we have a nodding head smiley?)

Yes, we do . Leave out the spaces :: yes ::

 

[kaytieeldr]

Or one can encourage their dd to be ladylike and their ds to be gentlemenly because there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Live and let live, right.

.
Encourage, raise as, teach... Doesn't mean they will behave that way as adults. Ergo, ladies and gentlemen is not inclusive.

And seriously, no one listens to us anyway so

this would be hilarious - if it weren't so true!

I once went to a Cirque du Soleil show and the clown welcomed us with "Ladies and... non ladies". I like that

Now, that's inclusive!

 

[kaytieeldr]

And you're correct, it's not on everyone else to cater to me. BUT if I shouldn't expect everyone to cater to me, should others expect me to cater to them? Two way street, isn't it?

You are an individual. The LGBTQ+ community, however small, is a community. Changing a greeting to cater to an individual is unreasonable. Changing to include 1%, 5%, 10%, whatever of the population, while annoying to some, makes sense.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sorry for the long question and if you read it all the way through-thank you!

I'm going to politely and considerately direct you to the search engine of your choice because, as a cisgender, heterosexual female, I don't have the life experience to suggest what you might "be."

 

[kaytieeldr]

I saw a stat online that 1.4 million or 0.5% - 0.6% of the US population is transgender.

That's half the population of Mississippi, greater than Hawaii or Vermont or Wyoming.

 

[kimblebee]

I work in a hospital and just did an education module on all the new gender identity nonsense that is our new reality. I was confused and mostly what I got out of it is I am no longer considered heterosexual and patients can have their name on their id bracelet in any form they prefer. Whatever. The whole pronoun issue just boggles my mind. I just plan to be respectful and live my own life.

Calling it nonsense isn’t respectful..

Having been through it with a grandchild, yes, I would say in our case that definitely was part of it. There were a lot of outside influences that played a role. Our feelings were always that it's such an angst-y age to begin with, especially for girls. Who among us doesn't remember not feeling comfortable in their own skin, not really knowing who they were and deeply yearning for...something unidentifiable that seemed just beyond reach? Knowing this child intimately, I wouldn't presume to speak for anybody else's situation.

You have a grandchild? I don’t think I knew that.

 

[Sandeep1]

Calling it nonsense isn’t respectful..

So what would be the respectful way to disagree with all the new genders identity issues?

 

[ronandannette]

You have a grandchild? I don’t think I knew that.

DH has two grown daughters with families of their own. There are 8 grandkids altogether aged from 2 to 15. If you've got the time to skim through my 14,000 posts you'll find them mentioned occasionally.

 

[BearFamily]

I used "ladies and gentlemen" in the classroom for many, many years, for the same reasons listed above.

Since having a daughter, I'm forcibly reminded that too often, being "ladylike" translates to values/behaviors I DON'T want to instill in her. As a little kid, I did want her to run and get sweaty and dirty and hang upside down and yell and like airplanes and argue for what she thought was right and be "bossy" without being rude. And don't get me started on what "ladylike" can translate to now that she's a couple years away from heading into dating territory. I have never in her life told her to "be ladylike".

I have told her to behave as if I taught her MANNERS. Manners, consideration, and kindness are gender neutral. I don't want to see her chewing food with her mouth open. I don't want to see her underwear in public. I do expect her to hold doors for people and help them when they drop things and apologize for bumping into them. I want her to use a napkin and not eat all of the cookies that are there for people to share and not talk during concerts and not push in front of people in line. I want her to stand up for others when she sees injustice or unkindness. I want her to stand up for herself, even if it means being loud. I would expect these things from any child of mine, no matter what their gender.

"Manners" doesn't differentiate with regard to gender. "Being ladylike" and "being a gentleman" do. If you came up with a list of qualities of "gentlemanly" and "ladylike", I do not believe they would be the same. And a quick Google search pretty well confirms that.

I no longer use "ladies and gentlemen" in the classroom. Not only does it not include my non-binary students (and yes, I too have multiple non-binary as well as trans students in my tiny school) and those who just may not relate to "being a lady" or "being a gentleman" but it implies that I have different expectations of those two groups of students. I do not. Changing my language to "musicians" or "friends" or "students" or "y'all" or to whatever it is has NOT resulted in any of my students behaving with less manners or consideration. But if it has made even one student who felt excluded by my previous language feel more included, I consider it a change worth making.

"I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better." (And yes, that's the correct Maya Angelou quote. It gets mangled a LOT.)

All that being said, the trans and non-binary adults I know would not, in general, be offended by the use of "ladies and gentlemen" on the airline as long as both options were included. They have a whole lot of bigger, more awful things to worry about.

 

[Jennasis]

So what would be the respectful way to disagree with all the new genders identity issues?

One could simply keep their thoughts to themselves.

 

[LSUmiss]

To pedants like me, yes. Not because of gender, but did to presumed but unproven degrees of politeness.

Nope. Just, again, "ladies & gentleman is far from inclusive of society as a whole.

Changing phrasing is "going off the deep end?" Seems like a severe overreaction.

Or even, " Welcome aboard, all of you who trust this huge metal tube to take off, fly, and land safely and on schedule... "

"Lady" is not synonymous with "woman."

Maybe that’s part of the issue. I don’t identify as a “lady” most of the time. I think of myself as a woman who tries to always be classy & polite (at least in public ). But, the greeting is just an innocuous greeting. I’ve never heard that greeting & thought “oh that’s me” b/c they said “ladies”. I really don’t have a problem with them changing it as it’s shorter & more efficient. I’m good with y’all too like some ppl have joked. But, I don’t think it’s more inclusive & it just seems like a publicity stunt to make it a story. If I were in any of the groups who don’t identify as a traditional gender, I would actually be annoyed with this attention-seeking announcement b/c to me it trivializes the movement to get ppl to be more inclusive & makes ppl roll their eyes.

 

[ronandannette]

One could simply keep their thoughts to themselves.

Kind of defeats the purpose of a discussion board though, no? Lots of things get tossed around here; it's a place we have discussions we likely don't IRL. I'm not sure why you participate here if you're not at least a little interested in what others think.

 

[Sandeep1]

One could simply keep their thoughts to themselves.

So I have to listen to people telling me about their gender identity thoughts but I can't disagree?

 

[kaytieeldr]

So what would be the respectful way to disagree with all the new genders identity issues?

Simple. Don't have gender identity issues.

Or, presuming you are a respectful adult, continue to be respectful. "Y'all", "Everybody", "People", etc. do not negatively affect you or anyone without gender identity issues.

Refer to everyone as "they" or " them" until/unless advised otherwise.

 

[Sandeep1]

Simple. Don't have gender identity issues.

Or, presuming you are a respectful adult, continue to be respectful. "Y'all", "Everybody", "People", etc. do not negatively affect you or anyone without gender identity issues.

Refer to everyone as "they" or " them" until/unless advised otherwise.

You've got to be kidding me. "Advised otherwise?" Advised by whom? Who makes the rules?

 

[BearFamily]

You've got to be kidding me. "Advised otherwise?" Advised by whom? Who makes the rules?

People (in power) have pretty much always made their own rules on how they want to be addressed.

I obtained a certain degree - I want you to call me Doctor or put J.D. or PhD or MSW after my name in writing
I have a certain job - I want you to call me Your Honor or Madame President or Coach or Professor
My grandparents inherited a certain piece of land/title - I want you to call me Your Grace or His Royal Highness
I have a certain gender affiliation and/or marital status - I want you to call me Mr., Miss, Mrs., or Ms.
I have a certain rank in relationship to you - I want you to call me by my last name not first, or "Chef" or "Sir" or "Captain"
I am teaching a certain language to you - I want you to call me Profe or Senor
I prefer a different version of my name - I want you to call me Chris or Greg or Sue instead of Christopher, Gregory or Susan

Without knowing which of these might apply or be preferred, a polite person would generally default to the most inclusive and respectful when interacting with someone. Why is this any different?