Kindergarten "summer school" - long, sorry *UPDATE*

[DisneyBabies]

Hi everyone. I googled curriculum standards last night and found this:

SC Kindergarten Standards

. I am astounded at some of this stuff.
Understand why books use headings, bold or italic words, graphs,
and pictures.
Understand that compound words are made up of two or more
small words.
Understand that a person’s name is a proper noun.
Use knowledge of spelling and grammar to edit writing with
teacher support.
Organize data in graphic displays in the form of drawings and pictures.

Do kids really know this in Kindergarten?

I have another question that you all may be able to answer. When they test at the beginning of the year, is it the same test they give at the end of the year? If so, I can understand why DS did so poorly since he's only had a month or so to learn all that stuff; how can they expect anyone to pass it one month into the school year?

I think I wouldn't be as upset about all this if they were actually using this test as a benchmark to see how far he progresses during the school year. But they aren't. They are using the results of this test to say that he is behind before he has even gotten started. But I have no idea what is considered behind.

Here's one thing to remember: some districts create their own "standards" test which may be more difficult than the state standards. My own district is like that-- the district feels that the state standards are too low, so they create their own higher test which highly exceed state standards. So one thing to ask is what is the districts policy on benchmarks and standards? Are they basing it on a national, state or district wide policy? And if so, which one and is a copy available to review?

Thank you so much for mentioning this. It did not occur to me that this could happen and I will definately be asking this. I am waiting for DS's teacher to get back to me but I am sure we will have to have a meeting with the principal as well.

I think you should be very happy that the school is being proactive in trying to get the kids on track in kindergarten and not waiting until things become a huge problem.

I am very grateful they are taking the time to help when it will be easier to fix any problems. They have been wonderful with getting DS speech therapy and keeping track of his progress even though he has been released from therapy so that we can get him in ASAP if he begins to have problems again. I will most definately send him for ELD if it is really needed. I am just confused as to what is going on because we have been told that he is doing very well and progressing as he is supposed to since August and then out of the blue we get a letter saying he is not meeting standards and they don't tell me what standards nor do they give me a copy of the test results so I can see what they are talking about. If these results were based on him taking the same test that is given at the end of the year, I don't see a problem with him not meeting standards yet because we are less than 2 months into the school year and he is supposed to master those things by the end of the year. Does that make sense?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Hi everyone. I googled curriculum standards last night and found this:

SC Kindergarten Standards

. I am astounded at some of this stuff.
Understand why books use headings, bold or italic words, graphs,
and pictures.
Understand that compound words are made up of two or more
small words.
Understand that a person’s name is a proper noun.
Use knowledge of spelling and grammar to edit writing with
teacher support.
Organize data in graphic displays in the form of drawings and pictures.

Do kids really know this in Kindergarten?

I have another question that you all may be able to answer. When they test at the beginning of the year, is it the same test they give at the end of the year? If so, I can understand why DS did so poorly since he's only had a month or so to learn all that stuff; how can they expect anyone to pass it one month into the school year?

I think I wouldn't be as upset about all this if they were actually using this test as a benchmark to see how far he progresses during the school year. But they aren't. They are using the results of this test to say that he is behind before he has even gotten started. But I have no idea what is considered behind.



Thank you so much for mentioning this. It did not occur to me that this could happen and I will definately be asking this. I am waiting for DS's teacher to get back to me but I am sure we will have to have a meeting with the principal as well.



I am very grateful they are taking the time to help when it will be easier to fix any problems. They have been wonderful with getting DS speech therapy and keeping track of his progress even though he has been released from therapy so that we can get him in ASAP if he begins to have problems again. I will most definately send him for ELD if it is really needed. I am just confused as to what is going on because we have been told that he is doing very well and progressing as he is supposed to since August and then out of the blue we get a letter saying he is not meeting standards and they don't tell me what standards nor do they give me a copy of the test results so I can see what they are talking about. If these results were based on him taking the same test that is given at the end of the year, I don't see a problem with him not meeting standards yet because we are less than 2 months into the school year and he is supposed to master those things by the end of the year. Does that make sense?

Believe it or not Kindergartners do know all that stuff and then some by the end of the year. K is not like when we were kids. The first month or two of school they do patterns, letters, sight words, writing etc. They really do learn a lot. The only problem I would have is that the teacher told you that he is doing fantastic when he is clearly having some problems in some areas. I wouldn't stress about it. I would speak to the teacher and then go from there. Let him get the extra help and keep working with the teacher to make sure he is on par. Good luck.

 

[Wishing on a star]

. I am astounded at some of this stuff.
Understand why books use headings, bold or italic words, graphs,
and pictures.
Understand that compound words are made up of two or more
small words.
Understand that a person’s name is a proper noun.
Use knowledge of spelling and grammar to edit writing with
teacher support.
Organize data in graphic displays in the form of drawings and pictures.

If this is indeed their 'standards' for Kindergarten...
Then I agree with you....

Many Kindergarten children, especially boys, have not developed the fine motor skills necessary for basic writing... and they think they should be able to "Use knowledge of spelling and grammer to edit writing"....

Welcome to our educational system.

I pulled my son out in 2nd grade, and have never looked back.

 

[DisneyBabies]

If this is indeed their 'standards' for Kindergarten...
Then I agree with you....

Many Kindergarten children, especially boys, have not developed the fine motor skills necessary for basic writing... and they think they should be able to "Use knowledge of spelling and grammer to edit writing"....

Welcome to our educational system.

I pulled my son out in 2nd grade, and have never looked back.

Those sounded like maybe 1st grade but closer to 2nd grade things to me. I think it is good that they are trying to teach these concepts as early as possible; after all, it has been proven that the younger most children are, the easier it is to pick up on things. But to require every child to know some of those things by the end of kindergarten seemed a bit much to me. Like others have said, not all children have the capacity to learn such complicated skills at such a young age. It doesn't hurt to try, but I think they should be a little more realistic.

I actually told my DH before school ever started that I was thinking we should homeschool simply because I don't agree with some of the policies our district follows. They make a lot of the policies overly harsh to try to compensate for those children and parents who don't put the effort into school that the school wants them to. So far, we are very happy with what DS's teacher is teaching in the class. DS loves going to school and says he has lots of fun while his teacher says he is one of her best behaved students, he has picked up on classroom routines very quickly (which I attribute to the fact he was in Head Start for 2 years) and he is learning and progressing very well.

While I won't hesitate to send him to ELD or to even hold him back next year if that is what he needs, neither would I hesitate to pull him out and homeschool him (and later my DD). I just want an explanation about what is going on. I am really begining to think that sending that letter home blindly with no explanation specifically about each child was a very bad move on the districts part. I am wondering how many parents are reacting the way I am and I feel for the teachers today.

 

[minniecarousel]

They send you a letter on Oct. 13, telling you your child needs to attend school during a regular break in less than 2 weeks? wow - talk about being blind-sided. Won't they take into consideration that parents may have plans, or have alternate child-care issues? You said that you have plans already made for this break. Seems unreasonable to assume that you can arrange to have him attend, especially when you were previously told that kinders don't attend this special session.

Good luck.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

If this is indeed their 'standards' for Kindergarten...
Then I agree with you....

Many Kindergarten children, especially boys, have not developed the fine motor skills necessary for basic writing... and they think they should be able to "Use knowledge of spelling and grammer to edit writing"....

Welcome to our educational system.

I pulled my son out in 2nd grade, and have never looked back.

I am not picking on you but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. I am so sick and tired of boys being labeled as unable to do anything. I have boys and girls. They are more than capable of basic writing. If you do not have fine motor skills by age 5 then there clearly needs to be some sort of intervention there. I feel like boys always get some sort of pass or lack of effort made because after all "they are boys". Please! They are just as capable. Put the same expectations on them that you put on the girls! (a general you)

OP- Do what you have to do to get your son up to speed. Good luck!

 

[mjkacmom]

I am not picking on you but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. I am so sick and tired of boys being labeled as unable to do anything. I have boys and girls. They are more than capable of basic writing. If you do not have fine motor skills by age 5 then there clearly needs to be some sort of intervention there. I feel like boys always get some sort of pass or lack of effort made because after all "they are boys". Please! They are just as capable. Put the same expectations on them that you put on the girls! (a general you)

OP- Do what you have to do to get your son up to speed. Good luck!

It depends on the child. I have noticed, on back to school open house, that the majority of bad handwriting is done by boys (and both of my boys fit into this category). My girls' fine motor skills is above and beyond my boys'. Dd8's handwriting is better than ds11's, and you can't even compare dd6's with ds6's.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

It depends on the child. I have noticed, on back to school open house, that the majority of bad handwriting is done by boys (and both of my boys fit into this category). My girls' fine motor skills is above and beyond my boys'. Dd8's handwriting is better than ds11's, and you can't even compare dd6's with ds6's.

You are right. It depends on the child not on the gender. I have a son who has beautiful handwriting. My own father has nicer handwriting than my mother. I just hate when people look at a child's gender and decide that it is okay that they can't do something just because they are a boy.
Just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

My apologies for my disrespect. That was a rude post born of frustration. Kid develop differently, and you can't make them change without causing harm to them. And some of those differences are due to the different brain development between boys and girls.

Saying something isn't true because it isn't true for you, in general, is like saying "i survived riding in a car without a seatbelt, kids now shouldn't have to wear one." One issue has little to do with the other.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

You can't make a child do something they are not developmentally ready to do. Give me a break. The brain has to be ready, be it fine motor, reading comprehension, spatial skills, or concrete and abstract thinking.

I have boys and girl, too. They range from 6 weeks to 24 years old. How much parenting experience do you have? Or do you work in a field with special knowledge of this issue. Or are you just giving an uninformed opinion?

This isn't a case of "buck up" and get it done." BTW, some girls are not at that point either. Statistically speaking, boys have a greated chance of being behind in some skills. They catch up if some dimwit doesn't come along and treat them like they are just not trying hard enough.

Sorry. It is a pet peeve of mine when people base the world on the experience of 5 family members.

Wow!
Did you actually read my post or do you just like to call names for fun? If you comprehended what I read you would see that I agree that children have to be ready developmentally but that their gender should not be taken into considerationl. Their skill level and ability should be the determining factor. If you have all this "experience" that you claim to have then I find it hard to believe that you have never run across an educator or parent who dismisses a child's lack of ability simply because of their gender and not because maybe they didn't take the time to work with the child or perhaps the child has some other issue? Really? They just decided that because their child was a boy they had no expectaions of them. Yes, there are boys who are not developmentally ready. There are girls who aren't either.

 

[allison443]

OP it sounds like the letter was a form letter...the way it says he was in the bottom quartile for ELA and/or math....when you speak with the teacher hopefully she can tell you the specific areas of concern for your son.

The teacher should be able to tell you what areas he hasn't mastered. Also, don't a lot of concepts build on each other, so mastering these early areas will be important for his learning the rest of the year.

I agree with you though, I would send my child if he scored in the bottom quartile. This might be a boost that he needs to succeed this year.

Good luck and I commend you for your concern and involvement!

 

[marlynnp]

OP. I'm sure it's a form letter. They are warning you that if you ignore what ever the issue is, it may cause difficulty for him down the road. For example if you have trouble with addition, but just struggle through and barely pass, leter when you have algebra chances are you are going to fail.

I would definitely set up a meeting with his teacher and a guidance counselor to find out exactly what his weakness is. Based on that meeting I'd decide if I thought it was something that I could devote some extra time to working on with him or I'd send him to the remedial classes and let the school work with him.

Either way, I'd say that the sooner any child gets a little extra help when they need it, the better!

You can't make a child do something they are not developmentally ready to do. Give me a break. The brain has to be ready, be it fine motor, reading comprehension, spatial skills, or concrete and abstract thinking.

I have boys and girl, too. They range from 6 weeks to 24 years old. How much parenting experience do you have? Or do you work in a field with special knowledge of this issue. Or are you just giving an uninformed opinion?

This isn't a case of "buck up" and get it done." BTW, some girls are not at that point either. Statistically speaking, boys have a greated chance of being behind in some skills. They catch up if some dimwit doesn't come along and treat them like they are just not trying hard enough.

Sorry. It is a pet peeve of mine when people base the world on the experience of 5 family members.

Wow! How many family members ARE required???

 

[DisneyBabies]

DS's teacher brought him to the car this afternoon and said since this issue has come up that we could move up the date of his Parent Conference if we want. We weren't scheduled to have conferences until the 23rd, but she moved us to 8am on Friday. I don't think she belives there is a major problem, but I think she will want him to go just to give him a little extra help. DH and I will talk tonight, but I think if she recommends that DS go, we will send him. I called my parents today to warn them we may not be coming but they both agreed that if it will help make things easier for him we should do it.

Now onto my next question for all of you . I have come up with a few questions to ask because I figured DS's teacher would want a face to face meeting, but can any of you think of anything else I should ask?

1. Can I get copies of DS's test results as well as a written explanation about what each section of the test consisted of and what it is supposed to achieve as far as skills he needs to have at the end of the school year.
2. Can I get a list of the curriculum that the school district is using to base their standards of achievement on.
3. Tell me exactly what the district expected him to know how to do before he walked in the door on the first day of school.
4. Is the MAP test based on state standards or did the district make up their own? If so, how do they differ? And can I get a copy to review to make sure my DS gets ahead and stays there. (thanks CindyB)
5. Is the test that was given the same one that will be given at the end of the year?
6. What lower quartile was my DS in? School? District? State?
7. What else can we do at home to help DS fix this problem?
8. Who will be teaching him during ELD? And how many children will be in each class?
9. How are they going to specialize his time there so that he is working on the skills he is lacking since this is not one-on-one time and the whole reason for him to go is to get better at the skills he lacks?

Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it .

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am not picking on you but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. I am so sick and tired of boys being labeled as unable to do anything.

Ohhhh, don't misunderstand...
I have a son. (albeit, one who has diagnosed hand/eye fine-motor disability....)
I also hate the 'boys will be boys'.... excuse/rhetoric
That is exactly what I am hearing right now about a situation where a kid is being physically aggressive in his efforts to bully my son away from a mutual friend.... "Boys will be boys... boys play rough.... etc... etc..."

But, isn't it commonly believed/known that at this age, boys are indeed frequently behind on some of these skills???

I know my post was very negative. But, that one comment was really meant to be a simple and valid comment.

 

[Wishing on a star]

disneybabies....

I am happy to see that you are concerned and ready to step up when it comes to your child's education!

However, he is 5... This is Kindergarten...

My personal thoughts.... If you had plans to take him to spend time with his grandparents, for you to see your parents, for younger siblings to be together with grandparents.... IMHO, I simply would not even entertain the idea of canceling.

I think it is safe to say that by the time your 5 year old Kindergartener graduates High School, or even moves into upper-elementary, this one session will be history, and will not have had any significant effect on your son's success.

Hugs!

 

[Cindy B]

DS's teacher brought him to the car this afternoon and said since this issue has come up that we could move up the date of his Parent Conference if we want. We weren't scheduled to have conferences until the 23rd, but she moved us to 8am on Friday. I don't think she belives there is a major problem, but I think she will want him to go just to give him a little extra help. DH and I will talk tonight, but I think if she recommends that DS go, we will send him. I called my parents today to warn them we may not be coming but they both agreed that if it will help make things easier for him we should do it.

Now onto my next question for all of you . I have come up with a few questions to ask because I figured DS's teacher would want a face to face meeting, but can any of you think of anything else I should ask?

1. Can I get copies of DS's test results as well as a written explanation about what each section of the test consisted of and what it is supposed to achieve as far as skills he needs to have at the end of the school year.
2. Can I get a list of the curriculum that the school district is using to base their standards of achievement on.
3. Tell me exactly what the district expected him to know how to do before he walked in the door on the first day of school.
4. Is the MAP test based on state standards or did the district make up their own? If so, how do they differ? And can I get a copy to review to make sure my DS gets ahead and stays there. (thanks CindyB)
5. Is the test that was given the same one that will be given at the end of the year?
6. What lower quartile was my DS in? School? District? State?
7. What else can we do at home to help DS fix this problem?
8. Who will be teaching him during ELD? And how many children will be in each class?
9. How are they going to specialize his time there so that he is working on the skills he is lacking since this is not one-on-one time and the whole reason for him to go is to get better at the skills he lacks?

Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it .

Those are great questions. In some districts, they do not have a set curriculum for certain subjects and instead use "teacher focused learning". For example, one year my daughter did not have a set science book, but the teacher created her own with experiments, hands on work, inquiry, and other things. I've seen teacher created curriculum in younger elementary grades and not so much in older grades-- however I have been noticing that high school english in our case is more teacher created than curriculum centered.


Yes, those standards sound very appropriate for kindergarten. My state has very similar standards. I remember working in a kindergarten classroom and doing a lesson on line graphs and bar graphs with valentines candy. Yes, kids can do it!


Also, remember that this too will pass and you will have many many hurdles in the academic life of your kids. Good luck in the meeting and don't get too emotional or let them bully you.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Also, remember that this too will pass and you will have many many hurdles in the academic life of your kids. Good luck in the meeting and don't get too emotional or let them bully you.

ITA!!!!
Truer words have never been spoken

 

[Cindy B]

Just for clarification, as for your question about the curriculum and standards of achievement.. in my state the State Dept of Education sets the standards and all publicly funded schools have to adhere to the standards. The curriculum that each district chooses may not be written to tailor these standards specifically, but it is the way the teachers present the material which shows mastery of specific standards.


For example, I taught 5th-6th grade. The language arts curriculum was not set for NJ public schools but the way I taught the material matched the state standards.

 

[DisneyBabies]

Well, we had a meeting with DS's teacher this morning and we decided to go ahead and sent him to ELD. His scores on both sections of the MAP test were about 10 points lower than the district wants them, which isn't really bad since you have to take into account that the kids have to have some computer skills to even take the test and DS may not have understood everything that was being asked of him (teachers are not allowed to help at all). For example: The test tells them to move 8 frogs from the grass to the lillypad and to do this, you have to "click and drag" the frogs from the grass to the lillypad using the mouse. If the kids don't understand how to "click and drag", they get the question wrong.

His teacher said that although he has some things to work on, she wasn't worried about any of it because they haven't been in school very long yet and he has all year to get good at this stuff. That being said, she still recommended that he go to ELD just to give him a little extra help to bump him up a little in improving his skills. We also reviewed what we are doing here at home to help and she recommended a few new things we can add into our rotation of "homework". She said she has no fears about him being held back even if we had decided to keep him out of ELD because she makes the decision about who to hold back and she takes into account what the kids do in class as well as the MAP testing simply because some kids don't test well.

She also gave us the website for the computer that they use at school and she recommended letting him do it at home as well since the program is made to state standards; if he's doing well on that, we have nothing to worry about. One other good thing about this program is that each child has a user name and password that the teacher (parents, school, and district) can use to keep track of how the child is doing and see what else they may need help with.

We are greatly relieved by everything she told us this morning and she said we were not the first parents in her class to get uspet about the way the district went about informing all of us about who needed to go to ELD. And the teachers weren't any happier since they didn't get the results of the MAP testing until yesterday afternoon after all the letters had gone out to parents .

But all is well for now, although we haven't figured out how to tell DS we aren't going to NC .

Thank you everyone for all your help the last couple of days!

 

[lillygator]

sounds like the meeting went well.


question for you. has your son been introduced to computers before now?