Kid's meals on DDP

[PeachesDoesHair]

We are not thrilled by the new children's selections. If we see a restaurant and all they have to offer is applesauce and sugar-free jello with a meal, we will probably just go somewhere else. We don't usually eat dessert twice a day, so I'm not all that worried about the sugar-free jello. My kids certainly will not be eating it as it causes dh migranes and it gives dd3 a headache. The new menu certainly leaves us desiring more, but finacially, if we want to eat at table service restaurants, it is our best bet.

 

[Katiebell]

Entitlement is another issue. I use that word in a factual sense, not as an emotionally-laden hyperbole. If you feel my use of the word "entitlement" is overly-emotional, I think you may be underestimating the gravity of the problem.

I think the reason why "entitlement" makes me cringe is its close association with phrases like "welfare state". Without giving specific details about what I do for a living, I am a civil servant, I work in customer service, and I definitely have extensive experience with dealing with an "entitlement mentality".

This will be my first trip to WDW, but I've been going to DL since the mid 60's, some of my earliest memories are there. I have no desire to go to any other amusement park; and really, Disney has totally outgrown being an "amusement park"...it's an immersive experience. People pay a lot of money to vacation with Disney, and for good reason -- Disney delivers. For the money I spend at Disney, I am "entitled" to a vacation that is fun and safe for my family. And that is exactly what I get. If it wasn't fun, and it wasn't safe...I wouldn't keep coming back, and neither would anyone else. If my kids were still little, and they didn't like the choices on the kids' menu, I would just order something for them from the adult menu. And it's something I have to think about, because in a few years I will likely have grandchildren to take on my Disney pilgrimages

I think you're missing the point. Please go back and read Lewis' and my messages again.

Yes, I must be. I went back and read yours and Lewis' messages again, and I'm not understanding How would standardizing the kids' menus across the board and offering a little more variety in the choices for side items be detrimental to Disney -- or Disney's bottom line? There would be the initial cost of changing the menus, and stocking and equipping each CS to make sure they could prepare those meals; but most of them would already have the equipment in place anyway (if they grill an adult's burger, they can grill a kid's burger). The entrees I suggested are already being offered in various locations in the parks, so there would be no cost to develop the menu items. And they could eliminate some of the less popular items. It would make the guests happy. Please be patient with me -- I don't have a marketing or business degree, I'm only armed with common sense (and yes, some would argue against that) and my experience as a mom. So yes, I must be missing an important point...please explain.

 

[Ms_Maggs]

Any kid will tell you that it makes NO SENSE that they can't order pizza in a restaurant called Pizzafari which advertises itself as a pizza place. And really...if you can't get what you want in the Happiest Place on Earth, where should you be able to get it??

As a parent, it sounded ridiculous coming from my mouth "sorry, honey, but kids aren't allowed to order pizza at Pizzafari, only grownups, They want you to have PB&J and sugar free jello".

I don't think *most* people are asking for HUGE changes to the system or any special treatment or entitlement, just for some basic logic.

I was just told that kids can't have Japanese food any longer in Japan (haven't verified), but if that's true, it's insanity! My whole point in bringing my kids through EPCOT is for them to sample the culture. Mac & Cheese isn't on the menu in Japan. Even as an adult, to see Mac & Cheese at my traditional Japanese table kind of snaps me out of the Disney Magic 'I could be in Japan' mode.

Common Sense is what I'm looking for when I'm at Disney or anywhere where I'm spending a lot of money to make my family happy. If my kids associate Disney with bad food, they're not going to want to stay there and eat. Then, we'll have to drive off and/or stay off property and Disney loses dollars for every hour I'm off resort not giving my money to them.

I like the DDP for its convenience, more than the price. By the time we throw away what we couldn't possibly consume, we probably break even on price. It's not having to open my wallet that I enjoy. So it's not simply a matter of 'Don't get the plan if you don't like the food'. We do like MOST of the plan, but it stinks to have one child feel so restricted while the rest of us get what we want when it would only take a few simple changes to make *everyone* happy. For instance, if I was asked to pay the difference between the kids meal and a pizza, I'd be happy to do it. I'm not looking to cheat the system in any way. That would really help out people who have healthy, active 9 year olds who need a bigger meal than a 4 year old too. Like McDonalds has a Happy Meal and a Big Kids Meal. Anything Mickey D's can do, Disney should be able to do better, or they shouldn't be bragging that they can make magic happen!

 

[beth_cam]

Look back a year back before the changes and you will see the complaints. The pizzafari issue has been there since before the changes. Same thing with hot dogs, chicken strips, and hamburgers...hard to find. And on the otherside were the parents complaining about the lack of choices - everything came with fries we want fruit choices. we want baked chicken not fried... on and on and on. Well as I have seen printed many times this was atleast somewhat a misguided attempt to appease the healthier menu requests. They can not offer a wide variety of foods to children since thy have to offer it cheaply - not just by cost of product but ease of making. They would rather you buy the more expensive food to feed your child. They do not want the dining plan to work for the majority of people. Disney is not a service out there to make children happy. They are a business doing their best to do one thing - make money. They really dont care who we are or what we think as long as the money keeps coming in. They have changed their menus once and may again, but they arent going to do it because they love are kids and wnat to make them happy - they will do it when/if/because it makes good business sense.

 

[beth_cam]

I was thinking that now that they are separating the credits they should let you get the plan you want - upgrade children to adult if you dont like the kids choices...you want the kids to have all the choices the adults do then you can just buy the adult plan for them..Of course I would never pay 39 a day for my kids at this point but it might feasibly be an appropriate choice to offer. Or maybe something like the option to put everyone as there age says or book your whole party as adults. Of course again there would be the money issue but it does put that extra choice in there...And that is why the childrens menus are small and only 11 for the day.

 

[Katiebell]

There are really two issues: the quality of kid's CS meals, and the value of the DDP for kids.

ITA that Disney is a business, and their goal is to make money. One of the best ways to make money is to keep your customers happy. Disney spends a lot of money and makes a lot of effort to please and delight their guests. That's why there are all those fun and interesting details in the ride queues. That's why Mousekeeping folds the guests' towels into cute little animals at the Pop. That's why there is music, architecture, artwork, and food in each area that is "themed" to evoke a mood, and make the Disney experience wonderful and unique. Which leads to happy guests. Which leads repeat guests. Which makes money. That's why there are so many of us who aren't at WDW or DL, but are posting on boards like these, dreaming and planning our next vacations there. Disney's reputation for magic is well-deserved -- it sure ain't Six Flags.

As for as the DDP for kids -- if your family does the average of at least one TS or CM each day, it's a bargain, hands down. The plan more than pays for itself. If your kids like the CS choices, still a good deal. If you aren't eating TS, and they don't like the kids' meals and you are paying OOP for things off the adult menu...then it may not be for you. If I was taking kids to WDW with the DDP right now, I'd plan on one buffet most days to make sure they were getting plenty of whatever they wanted to eat, use the CS meals for at least the drinks and whatever else they would eat from the kids' meals, and supplement with Snack credits for things like fruit.

 

[bicker]

How would standardizing the kids' menus across the board and offering a little more variety in the choices for side items be detrimental to Disney -- or Disney's bottom line?

I see no problem with standardization, but also don't see that it would necessarily always be a benefit. (Many folks don't like the idea of standardization actually, FWIW. I simply think the advantages and disadvantages even each other out.) "More variety" isn't really the entirety of the issue as you've raised it earlier -- rather, you've indicated changes I would consider enhancements to the choices, i.e., making the choices more attractive in general. As Lewis explained, that would make them more attractive to adults, and then Disney's right back where they were a few years ago, with all the trouble they had with adults, interesting in saving money, intimidating cast members into granting them child meals. That's the problem.

(if they grill an adult's burger, they can grill a kid's burger)

That's a perfect example. If they have a kid's burger, I know my mother (who I love very very much, but I cannot help but cringe whenever she does this...) will insist on ordering it for herself, and berate any restaurant server who dares suggest she pay more than the child menu price.

I don't think *most* people are asking for HUGE changes to the system or any special treatment or entitlement, just for some basic logic.

However, they're insisting on logic that satisfies their own objectives, to the exclusion of satisfying the objectives of the business. In the mass-market, the supplier determines the offerings and the customer accepts or declines. Therefore, to get the supplier to change the offerings, the supplier must be better-off offering the alternatives, not worse-off.

Common Sense is what I'm looking for

Common sense implies that it makes sense to everyone, i.e., both sides. What you're suggesting perhaps only makes good sense from the consumer standpoint, and perhaps makes bad sense from the supplier standpoint.

They have changed their menus once and may again, but they arent going to do it because they love are kids and wnat to make them happy - they will do it when/if/because it makes good business sense.

Precisely. Indeed, the recent changes rolled back some earlier changes, but note they didn't roll things back completely. They're being very precise and deliberate, basing the changes on what's the optimal set of offerings, given all they know (and they sure know a lot!) about us their customers.

 

[Lewisc]

At one time you posted information regarding restaurant costs. It costs just as much to grill a kids burger as an adult burger. The only savings to Disney would be less ground beef. My guess is the savings from a smaller roll would not be significant.

How much of a discount would Disney be able to offer if instead of a kids burger they offered a junior burger? A burger that your Mom could order as well as kids. A discount that is justified by the smaller portion. Would the discount even be a dollar? Will parents be happy if an adult burger platter is $6.50 and the kids platter is $5.75.

As Lewis explained, that would make them more attractive to adults, and then Disney's right back where they were a few years ago, with all the trouble they had with adults, interesting in saving money, intimidating cast members into granting them child meals. That's the problem.

That's a perfect example. If they have a kid's burger, I know my mother (who I love very very much, but I cannot help but cringe whenever she does this...) will insist on ordering it for herself, and berate any restaurant server who dares suggest she pay more than the child menu price.

 

[bicker]

$6.50 adult / $5.75. child: I think that's probably about right, Lewis.

 

[Katiebell]

ok, I'm starting to understand some of your points. And I know there are probably quite a few adults out there like your mom, bicker -- but if she insisted on ordering a kid's burger, then her side dishes would be apple juice and goldfish crackers I dunno, maybe she likes those, too...

If Disney's ultimate goal was to make kids' meals unappealing to adults, they could always switch to chicken liver tacos with a side of brussel sprouts. Of course, then NOBODY would order them...

You mentioned your DN prefers "bland" food. That's often the best way to serve food to kids under 10 -- plain, so they can add sauce if they want. It's a lot easier than trying to scrape things off, and convince the kid that it really is edible. And plainer selections, reliable favorites ("standardized" if you will) would also accomplish the goal of making the menu less interesting to adults.

Bear with me guys...the only food service experience I have is from working in commercial bakeries, so my thoughts on this may be a bit rusty. A kid's sloppy joe at Pecos Bill's...if they offered a burger instead, it would be exactly the same bun, and the same packaging. It would be exactly the same amount of meat, just grilled in a little 2-3 oz patty, instead of being broken up and mixed with spices and a sauce, ingredients that aren't free. How is there a difference in cost between those offerings? They could test market it and see how many kids would order a plain burger over a sloppy joe. Ask any kid who orders off a school lunch menu what he prefers And the kicker is, they are already serving kid's burgers at other CS restaurants. Are the restaurants owned/sponsored by different companies? Or is Disney trying to discourage families from eating at certain CS, and encourage them to go to others? One of the most puzzling examples of this is that Pizzafari has no pizza for children, but Tangierine Cafe -- in MOROCCO -- has burgers and pizza! But the prices are higher there, too... Epcot eateries seem to offer the best choices for kids that are themed to their area, but some of the prices are higher. Are they managed differently than the CS restaurants in the other parks?

 

[beth_cam]

I may be wrong but I think you are circling the idea of the difference here. The epcot countries eateries are privately owned and dont have to think about feeding 'the world' economically.

Sloppy joes = 1 big precooked vat kept warmed and use the exact same mixture for an adult(like 2 scoops) or child(1 scoop). Hamburgers = cooked to order have to have 2 different kinds again, requiring different cooking times etc. We all complain about the long waits for counter service yet we want them to make more different things to order. I personally think disney's burgers are gross but i'm not a burger fan anyways so I'm just as happy they arent there and have a hard time seeing the other side.

 

[TDC Nala]

I see no problem with standardization, but also don't see that it would necessarily always be a benefit. (Many folks don't like the idea of standardization actually, FWIW. I simply think the advantages and disadvantages even each other out.) "More variety" isn't really the entirety of the issue as you've raised it earlier -- rather, you've indicated changes I would consider enhancements to the choices, i.e., making the choices more attractive in general. As Lewis explained, that would make them more attractive to adults, and then Disney's right back where they were a few years ago, with all the trouble they had with adults, interesting in saving money, intimidating cast members into granting them child meals. That's the problem.

.

So when I order the chilled chicken at Backlot Express (I like it better than all that heavy stuff they have on the adult menu and it makes a great snack) I've intimidated the person behind the counter into giving me a child's meal?

What's the logic behind "We don't want adults ordering children's meals, so we have to make the children's meals suck?"

Why don't they just enforce the rule, if it exists, that requires a child's meal to be ordered for a child? If you order one, you must have the child present.

 

[Ilovemyprincesses]

Other than the bad choices there is nothing stopping any adult from ordering a kids meal now. If an adult has their heart set on getting a cheaper(kids) meal they will find one.

 

[bicker]

So when I order the chilled chicken at Backlot Express (I like it better than all that heavy stuff they have on the adult menu and it makes a great snack) I've intimidated the person behind the counter into giving me a child's meal?

Hmmmm... well the only person I mentioned was my mother.... Mom??? Is that you? Gosh, why didn't you tell me you were participating on the DIS forums?

What's the logic behind "We don't want adults ordering children's meals, so we have to make the children's meals suck?"

You just explained the logic: Preventing adults from avoiding that aspect of adult meal prices that represents the cost of customer acquisition.

Why don't they just enforce the rule, if it exists, that requires a child's meal to be ordered for a child?

Disney is more concerned about avoiding confrontational situations. Evidently, enforcement is much worse for customer satisfaction than lack of selection.

 

[Lewisc]

Send your Mom over to Pastamore in City Walk for breakfast. The only difference between the adult egg platter and the kids egg platter is the price. I don't remember if a beverage is included, some people might have an issue asking for coffee with a kids meal.

I don't know the wholesale cost for a small container of milk but Disney's cost for milk might negate whatever savings are obtained from reduced portion size.

Hmmmm... well the only person I mentioned was my mother.... Mom??? Is that you? Gosh, why didn't you tell me you were participating on the DIS forums?

 

[Katiebell]

OK...my kids are grown (youngest is almost 16), and they all survived to adulthood, none of them starved to death along the way, even with our trips to Disneyland

So...from alllll the posts I've read, the research I've done online (over the last few days), and my extensive credentials and years of experience as a mom (*ahem*):

~ If you got the DDP for free, be grateful. It's FREE. Not everyone is so lucky, so be happy If your kid doesn't like the choices on the kids' menus at CS, then plan on buying them adult meals OOP. You can still use the CS credit for the beverage, and whatever sides the kid will eat out of the meal. And don't forget the snack credit.

~ If you paid for the DDP, one TS a day more than breaks even for the $11/day cost. That's not even counting the CS or the Snack credit.

~ If you have toddlers, or kids that hardly eat anything, the CS kids' meals should suit them fine. They can fingerpaint with the applesauce and fling the carrot sticks at their siblings -- it will give them something to do while the rest of the family eats lunch.

~ If you have kids that like kids' meals, but are picky about the entree choices, then do your research. After all the planning you must do to get ADR's for your TS meals, I hate to say you need to plan even more -- but you do, if you want your kids to be happy at lunch time. Just browse the CS menus online for each park -- there is a page for them on this site http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/dining/disneydining.cfm#mk
and make a note of any CS restaurants your kids would hate, and any that have choices they would like. You should find at least a couple of reasonable options to choose from in each park -- and you'll know which CS restaurants to avoid like the plague. Epcot has the greatest variety and some of the best sounding meals for kids if they have a little more sophisticated palate (check out the CS kids' menus for Yakitori, Sunshine Seasons, Tangierine, and the Cantina).

~ if your children are sick of grapes, applesauce, and carrot sticks after 3 days, ask if they can sub fries. Some of the restaurants even say on the menu that they will do that, and they will sub a soda for the other beverages. If you don't see it on the menu, never hurts to ask. If you don't let your kids have fries and sodas, even on vacation, then just don't tell them it's an option. Oh, and hope they don't look around the restaurant and notice what the other kids are eating.

~ if your kid is a big eater, consider doing a buffet lunch or dinner, most if not all days. The children can choose from all the same selections as adults, and they're sure to find something they like.

~ if Disney would hire me to revamp their kids' meals, the kids and parents would be happier, but according to the feedback I've received from some folks here, Disney would not be happier...so it's probably not gonna happen. Darn. Guess that means I will just have to go into Guest Relations after all

Actually, I rather be a Disney TA.

 

[bethbuchall]

I am a bit confused...how do Disney stop you ordering all adult meals if they dont seperate the cs credits?

They usually will let you order only a maximum number of adult/kids meals listed on your card at the same time. Even though the credits aren't separated, they can see how may adults you have in your party.

 

[bicker]

I don't know the wholesale cost for a small container of milk but Disney's cost for milk might negate whatever savings are obtained from reduced portion size.

Milk is generally one of the smallest margin items in restaurants.

 

[Lewisc]

Milk is generally one of the smallest margin items in restaurants.

An adult CS meal generally includes a fountain soda, cost to Disney is near zero. A child CS meal generally includes a small container of milk.

We agree Disney saves $.50- .75 on the cost of beef if they had a kids meal with a smaller burger. I wonder how much of that "savings" is reduced in order to pay for the milk.

 

[bicker]

Probably all of it. In the end, the difference in price between adult CS and child CS is probably mostly a matter of a family-friendly (or perhaps family-biased) courtesy discount.