Kid's Club counselor dislocated my daughter's elbow....

[cathicool]

yep, we were on the 3 night sailing 9/24 and on the 2nd night, hubby picked up my (just turned on 9/16) 4 year old daughter from the kids club about 10 pm (dropped off about 6:30 or so) and when he met me at the room he said he didn't think she could move her arm. I looked at her briefly and determined he was correct and asked why he wasn't informed of this when he picked her up!!!!!

We returned to the kids club where they had no idea what happened or that she was even injured. the kids club mamager immediately got involved and my daughter was able to tell us that it was a counselor and then she picked the person out of the pictures of the counselors on the wall. It turns out my daughter was 100% accurate as to how/when/who.

We went to the health center and the female doc we first encountered had no clue as to what was wrong (literally). she suggested we put it in a sling and we return tomorrow to look at it again. i protested, asked for an xray and stated that i thought her elbow was dislocated. i then asked for another doctor. the 2nd doctor (a male) took a 2 second look at her and immediately proclaimed her elbow to be dislocated. he was able to reduce it and she was able to move her arm about 10 minutes later. $154 later and we were on our way back to our room.

The following day the kids club was on castaway cay. my daughter had no issue with going to the club on the island, but was quite concerned about going to the club on the ship at night. she did go-- without incident. however, now that several days have passed and everyone asks about her cruise,she states she does not want to cruise again because "the mean girl with the yellow shirt and white tag hurt her arm at kids club".


So I'd like to write a letter to "someone" at DCL regarding this. I am upset over the incident happening obviously, but extremely disappointed over the fact that the incident was undetected and my daughter's elbow was dislocated for up to 3 hours and NOONE noticed until we brought her back to discuss the injury. We were not notified that she got hurt, we had to figure it out on our own.

Any comments? Anyone else experience something like this? We are really saddened by the whole thing- especially if my youngest child does not want to cruise any longer!

 

[MermaidsMom]

Wow! What did she do to dislocate the elbow? I've heard lots about shoulders but not much about elbows. What exactly took place?

 

[4Goofys4Dis]

First, I am sorry for your experience - it is totally unacceptable how it was handled...you NEVER should have had to pay that bill and I hope that something was said to the CM who did this!???!

I wrote to DCL about an incident I had a couple of years ago in the kids club and never received a response so I am no help to you in that area. I was amazed that I did not even receive an acknowledgment. We still cruise on them though.

I hope it all works out and I am glad you DD is ok...let us know what happens and if you get a response - I would be interested!

 

[cathicool]

It's pretty difficult to dislocated an elbow with out a good deal of force.

According to my DD, the incident happened at the top of the slide in the club. It seems my DD was not moving along fast enough and the counselor grabbed her arm and pulled it. My DD was emphatic that the injury/incident took place at the top of the slide and the counselor had pulled on her arm.

 

[cathicool]

i saw the manager of the kids club again the following day and she was the one who told me that my DD was 100% accurate as to what happened-- including the couselor she picked form the pictures. She said that the incident was being esclated above her- to her boss,and that the counselor was being delt with.

we did recieve an apology (sorry she got hurt) and a hat, a princess game, another trinket or 2. but noone offered to pay for the bill- i did go to guest services the night it happened-

i did not ask for anyone to pay the bill either. i do have a travel policy from insuremytrip.com that i suppose will reimburse me for the bill, i guess this is why i didn't ask DCL to pay it.

I'm more concerned now with my DD psyche and her "fear" of cruises and/or kid's clubs. In addition to my previous issues over the way this was (more like wasn't) handled/detected.

 

[Interpol]

A dislocation can happen in some benign situations. For example - being picked up off the floor by the arms.

Without knowing both sides of the story and the cause of the injury, I would consider getting a lawyer involved if the internal investigation turns out inadequate. Delays in diagnosis of a joint dislocation (especially in kids) can sometimes have grave consequences (i.e., long term nerve or vascular injury).

 

[Mom2PrincessesLinSy]

OMG, I am horrified and so sorry this happened to your DD!! Of course she would be scared to sail again, I'm suprised she even went back to the club!

I have seen many elbow dislocations in children (I am a therapist), particularly when a child has "very loose joints" or is double jointed. Not sure if that is the case with your DD or not. NOT that I am saying that the injury wasn't caused by the counselor, please don't think that. But I have had many a child in my office for therapy who had been "swung" by the arms by mom/dad/babysitter, etc and their elbow dislocated. When their joints are that mobile, the elbow is actually a pretty easy one to dislocate, since it just pops off the groove. So usually it is easy to reduce and kids being resilant, they recover much quicker than mom does!

I would think (and sincerely hope!) that this counselor is removed from the kids club from this point on. If they have to keep her on in that capacity, (and I really don't know about the ins and outs of how that works on DCL) maybe she should go up to the teenage group who would put her right back in her place!!

Good for your DD for being about to tell about her incident, and be so accurate, esp at her age! You should be proud of her!!

Let us know how things go! I'll be interested to know since we are going on the Magic on Nov. 1 and my DDs are 6 and 3!!

 

[Amlee]

An elbow isn't as hard to dislocate as you think. Mine pops in and out several times a day. It has done this since I was a child. As a kid, we had to be careful how I was picked up or how I played.

I don't know what getting a lawyer involve will solve.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

OP - Did you take your DD to an orthopedist once you got home?

The only reason I ask is that I had a dislocated shoulder when I was 14. It was out of the socket for approximately 10 hours. It wasn't immobilized long enough and the doctor ended up breaking the socket when he put the bone back in place. As he never re-xrayed it, I never knew until I dislocated it a second time. New doctor took x-rays and could see the healed break. He said that first doctor was negligent by not taking care of the break. He offered to testify in court if we wanted to sue him. I ended up having chronic dislocations until I had rotator cuff surgery to repair it.

So, if she hasn't already been re-checked by someone you trust please have it done. Better to be safe then sorry.

And Disney should never have charged you for that office visit, trip insurance or not!! Hugs to your DD.

 

[cathicool]

accidents happen. i can accept that. i am assuming this was an accident and the couselor probably didn't mean to pull her (or whatever the case was). my duaghter does not have loose joints or double joints, by the way.

my concerns are:

1--why did noone "know" this happened, and we had to present my DD to them (the kids club) and start asking questions about her injury.

2. her new "fear" of cruises and/or kids clubs.

 

[Fizzgig]

Our 9/27/08 cruise meet thread is reporting quite a few problems with the Oceaneer's Club.

My daughter was injured by counselors twice (scrape on the back and one on the arm, done on different nights, nothing said to us by the counselors.)

I think we're done with DCL. With the dry dock not refreshing the cabins and the kids club not being acceptable, most of the reasons I cruised on DCL have been removed.

 

[cathicool]

hmmmm......we went to WDW after the DCL. so we just got home on saturday. but maybe i should get her to an orthopedic and an xray just to be safe.

thanks for the advice!!!!

 

[Fizzgig]

accidents happen. i can accept that. i am assuming this was an accident and the couselor probably didn't mean to pull her (or whatever the case was). my duaghter does not have loose joints or double joints, by the way.

my concerns are:

1--why did noone "know" this happened, and we had to present my DD to them (the kids club) and start asking questions about her injury.

2. her new "fear" of cruises and/or kids clubs.

Regarding #1, the care is not one on one on DCL, and if the counselors were not able to concentrate on your child like you and your spouse did, they probably were unable to notice anything being out of the ordinary. If child was not actively engaging the counselors' attention, benign neglect is what I saw in the Oceaneer's Club on this past cruise on that ship. I was using that Club a few days after you, and to say I wasn't impressed is a major understatement.

Regarding #2, your call. Do you WANT to take her on another cruise? If so, then maybe playing up the good portions of the cruise might be called for.

 

[Amlee]

I have some questions. Did your DD seem hurt or upset when your husband picked her up? Did she whimper or whine about her arm? Did you ask her if she said something about being hurt?

The reason I ask, is if she didn't act hurt, or didn't say anything before she was picked up. The club might not have known she was hurt.

I know my nephew is bad to get hurt and not say anything until it's pointed out to him.

 

[Mom2PrincessesLinSy]

accidents happen. i can accept that. i am assuming this was an accident and the couselor probably didn't mean to pull her (or whatever the case was). my duaghter does not have loose joints or double joints, by the way.

my concerns are:

1--why did noone "know" this happened, and we had to present my DD to them (the kids club) and start asking questions about her injury.

2. her new "fear" of cruises and/or kids clubs.

I completely agree with you!! That's part of why you put them in a SUPERVISED kids' club, so that they can keep the kids safe and notice if something is wrong and contact the parents right away!!!

Wasn't trying to make an excuse with the double jointed children, as I don't think this should have happened at all!! I think there definately needs to be an "investigation" and ramifications! I hope you get some decent answers!

I wouldn't worry about the going back on cruises and kids clubs right now. It will take some time to get over this for her. Both of you will probably have serious nervousness about going to another club, but in time (and with gentle encouragement) I'm sure she'll be fine!

Also, the Orthopod is probably a good idea. Sounds like things are fine since the elbow was reduced, but just may want to double check. Also be aware that once an elbow is dislocated, it CAN happen again, since the ligaments are stretched from the initial injury. May want the doc to give her a note to take it easy (if she goes to PreK) and not do any hanging from monkey bars and all for a bit!

(((hugs))) to everyone!

 

[Donna3271]

Cathi,

I have nothing to add, just to say that I am horrified that you had that experience. Not only should they not have charged you for the exam, but they should comp you a cruise. DO NOT LET THIS GO. THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE. My cousin had an issue a few years back (his 6 year old son got hurt in the pool at the Pop Century). He carried on so much, they comped him a week at the Animal Kingdom Lodge. And it wasn't even a cast member that hurt him, it was another guest! Good luck!!!!!

 

[cathicool]

in response to amlee....


well she was in obvious distress when i ran into them (as they were getting off the elevator) and when i went to touch her arm she yelled out this nasty whiny/crying sound. she said she was crying on the slide. shecould not move her arm- it was bent in front of her as if she had it in a cast--in a very unnatural position. my DH was carrying our sleeping 6 year old DS who is autistic and our 4 year old was walking, but hubby said she kept saying her arm hurt when she was walking. I am a stay at home mom now, but was trained as a PA 18 years ago (haven't worked in 10 years), so DH naturally defers all medical/health issues to me. He said his first thought was to get her to me when it dawned on him that she was really hurt.

a little kid holding thier arm across thier chest for some time has got to send off some bells in some adults mind. there were not a lot of kids in the club at that time and if she was crying on the slide, how could they not have noticed her arm, unless they ignored her crying. my DD is not shy. if someone came up to her and said why aren't you playing, or something like that, she would've said to them that her "arm didn't work" like she said to me. She said that "she came down the slide and her arm didn't work and she was crying."

we entrust these people with our children. a COUNSELOR- not another child pulled her- even that counselor, you'd think would've had enough sense to have put 2 and 2 together when my DD was crying and not moving her arm. admit that a mistake was made and get my DD some medical attention. Or perhaps the counselor hoped that my DD would not be able to detail how the injury occured. I am going on the premise that this was indeed an accident, but never the less, we leave our children with these trained adults to play and have fun...nothing else and certainly not to have them injured by the same trained adults!

 

[Amlee]

well she was in obvious distress when i ran into them (as they were getting off the elevator) and when i went to touch her arm she yelled out this nasty whiny/crying sound. she said she was crying on the slide. shecould not move her arm- it was bent in front of her as if she had it in a cast--in a very unnatural position. my DH was carrying our sleeping 6 year old DS who is autistic and our 4 year old was walking, but hubby said she kept saying her arm hurt when she was walking. I am a stay at home mom now, but was trained as a PA 18 years ago (haven't worked in 10 years), so DH naturally defers all medical/health issues to me. He said his first thought was to get her to me when it dawned on him that she was really hurt.

a little kid holding their arm across their chest for some time has got to send off some bells in some adults mind. there were not a lot of kids in the club at that time and if she was crying on the slide, how could they not have noticed her arm, unless they ignored her crying. my DD is not shy. if someone came up to her and said why aren't you playing, or something like that, she would've said to them that her "arm didn't work" like she said to me. She said that "she came down the slide and her arm didn't work and she was crying."

we entrust these people with our children. a COUNSELOR- not another child pulled her- even that counselor, you'd think would've had enough sense to have put 2 and 2 together when my DD was crying and not moving her arm. admit that a mistake was made and get my DD some medical attention. Or perhaps the counselor hoped that my DD would not be able to detail how the injury occurred. I am going on the premise that this was indeed an accident, but never the less, we leave our children with these trained adults to play and have fun...nothing else and certainly not to have them injured by the same trained adults!

If she let them know and they ignored it, then they have screwed up big time. At the least, you shouldn't have been charged for the doctor visit. At the least DCL should give you the money back for that. I would also ask to see what was done to that CM and the CM supervisor. As both should be removed from their jobs. Accidents happen I expect them too. What I don't expect is them not paying attention to a child who was hurt. That is why they should be removed from their job. As that is the whole purpose for them being there.

That being said, if she was able to go on and do days at the park and your doctor clears her, what more would you want from DCL?

 

[gummyvites]

OP,

I was thinking about your question regarding your dd's psyche and fear about cruising in the future. One thing I would recommend is to avoid discussing the situation in front of her. If she hears you talking to other moms/friends/relatives about it, it becomes a much bigger deal in her mind. Every time she is reminded about it, it will probably become a scarier concept to her than it was originally. For example, if Mommy is upset/scared about it, then it must be REALLY scary, because moms are never scared about anything (at least to a kid's perspective). Instead, downplay it in front of her, "Oh, she's fine now, no big deal..." and so on. They are so observant of when they are being talked about, not only when we are talking directly to them.

Just a thought... We had to do this with our dd's shyness (obviously a very different situation). It was recommended by our pediatrician. I couldn't believe what a massive difference it made. Within two weeks she went from a crying/hiding behind mom kind of kid to a much more outgoing one when I stopped saying to people, "Oh, she's just SO shy, you know..." I guess I was subtly reinforcing it by talking to people about it.

Anyway, it might help, it might not. But never hurts to try!

Karen

 

[flexsmom]

I'm so sorry this happened to your daughter, and to you all. A few years ago, I would have really been shocked and surprised, but we had a not so great incident with the Wonder Oceaneers Club/Lab counsellors in August, so I'm really not nearly as surprised.

My DS5 came into Scuttles Cove with me to pick up my DD9 - the Lab was there at the time. They gave him a "visitor" sticker, since he wasn't checked in. I sent DS to get DDs shoes, and DD over to the shower in the enclosed area to rinse off. DD finished up, and I looked around for DS - no where to be found - and this is an ENCLOSED area. After about 5 minutes of prowling the entire area, and since I was getting visibly distressed, a counsellor asked me what was up. He started looking - all over - and had no luck. He was getting nervous, too. We all finally headed over to the exit to ask the counsellors there to put out an alarm, and the check-out counsellor nonchalantly said "oh, you mean this little boy?" and pointed at DS who was seated OUTSIDE of Scuttles Cove. I was LIVID. They basically let his OUT of the club with no supervision - and the CMs who were outside essentially shrugged their shoulders and said "well, he wasn't checked in with us, so since he said his mom was inside, we just let him out here". It was pretty fascinating how they turned it around on ME. Even the guy who had been looking for DS with me was looking at them like they had lost their minds.

So - I don't mean to distract from the definitely alarming physical injury - but the overall attitude I felt from this batch of CMs just wasn't really what I'm used to from previous cruises.