Kid's Club counselor dislocated my daughter's elbow....

[LovableGluttons]

I don't want to minimize this, but I used to see kids in ther ER with "nursemaid's elbow" frequently.

It's very common and can happen even by swinging around holding hands.

 

[CGC33A]

Loveable gluttons beat me to the explanation of "Nursemaid's Elbow", the likely diagnosis (but I wasn't there so this is just a guess). http://orthopedics.about.com/od/pediatricfractures/a/nursemaid.htm
What is a nursemaid's elbow?
A nursemaid's elbow is a common elbow injury seen in young children. The injury causes a subluxation of one of the bones (the radius) at the elbow joint. Subluxation means the bones has slid out of proper position .The nursemaid's elbow injury usually occurs in children age 5 or younger.
What causes a nursemaid's elbow?
A nursemaid's elbow can be caused many ways, but the classic mechanism is a sudden pull on a young child's arm. For example, an adult trying to prevent a child from falling, may suddenly pull the child by his or her hand. If the arm is in a certain position, the radial head is susceptible to subluxation.

But my question about the entire incident, don't they videotape the club for security purposes, especially the slide where injuries could occur (a fall for example)? They might not want to tell you they have tapes b/c they could be used against them but on the other hand, it could clear them if it showed the child not being touched by the counselor (I understand that is not what occurred)

 

[mickeyluv]

cathicool- I just want to say that I am so sorry that this happened to your daughter. There is no excuse for that happening. Those counselors in the clubs are supposed to be watching out for our children while they are checked into those clubs! I also would not let this go! I'm sorry but the CM should not be in that job position on the ship and if nothing else, I would make sure that I did everything I could so that this would not happen to another child. Maybe it was an accident...maybe it wasn't...either way that CM had to of known that your DD was hurt if she was that vocal about it with you and your DH and when she tried to move it. Do what you have to do. Our children depend on us to take care of them and their needs!!! Good Luck! Lots of hugs to your DD

 

[sharen24]

So sorry that this happened to your daughter. As an ER nurse, I too have seen many cases of nursemaid's elbow, which are usually accidental. What bothers me is that it went unnoticed at the club. My son turns 3 a few days before our cruise and I had planned on checking on him every hour to avoid a potty accident. Now I will be there just to make sure he is safe. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[cats mom]

I know someone already mentioned this, but just another reminder... be extra careful, especially for the next month or so.

My DD was about the same age as yours when she also had this injury. From what I understand the first time it happened it took a pretty good jolt to pop her little arm out of place (playground incident at preschool) Unfortunately, we didn't realize at the time that recurrance was especially likely in the next few weeks, so since DD's arm felt fine, we let her go back to gymnastics. Big mistake. First day back on the bars and it happened again. Then again and again over the course of the next year or so.

Thankfully age took care of the problem for DD, but surgery was defintely on the radar if the problem had persisted past age 6 or so.

Sorry this happened OP. I hope you are able to get things resolved with DCL and that your little one will be able to focus on the fun stuff on the cruise.

 

[cruisinmama06]

I was on that ship with the same counselors 2 weeks earlier. My 4 year old was in that kids club. I don't want to minimize her injury, but nursemaid elbow is pretty common in kids. BUT, that's why I always tell people never to pick up their kids by the arms. So the couselor should have never have done that. And they should be told about it.

We were paged twice on a 3 day cruise to tell us about 2 different injuries with my 4 year old. Both of them very minor. One she had a bleeding toe cause she had picked a nail. The second she had a "boo boo on her finger".

Not only was I paged, but I was asked if I knew about the injury by three different couselors when I went to pick her up each time. So in our situation, they went above and beyond what was needed to tell me my daughter had a minor boo boo.

You should write a letter to Disney and explain what happened. Ask them to remind their counselors not to lift a child by the hands/arms.

 

[cathicool]

yes, it was nursemaid's elbow. as i said, i am a physician assistant, so it was clear to me. but this is still quite an injury in a kids club for 3-4 year olds on a disney ship!

but unnoticed?

and the counselor certainly didn't "own up to it"! i think if i were the counselor, the sheer horror of injuring someone would've made me run and tell someone that a child was injured and that i did it accidentally.

 

[lbgraves]

I have to agree with that. Since you said it was at the top of the slide my first thought was that perhaps DD looked like she was going to fall and the CM instinctively reached out to grab at her to try to keep her from getting hurt...like if you see a kid running out into the street you snatch at them, usually abruptly, to stop them. Their response to what happened is completely unacceptable however. I hope that your DD is able to get past her feelings about this and is able to enjoy the good memories from the cruise...and more to come. Kids do remember though even when you don't expect it. On our 12/06 cruise a new entertainment CM who didn't know what they were doing took DD6 at the time firmly by the shoulders and moved her away from her two friends to the back of the line to see Cinderella. We had been in line before anyone else showed up and when the kids mobbed Cindy that CM showed up late and just started grabbing kids and moving them to the back of the line. I was in shock and DD was afraid to say anything at all. I told the other CM that when DD got to the front of the line again her friends were going to come back and take a picture with her. The parents of the other kids insisted that DD go back and take a picture with her friends then and we went on our way. Later that night I talked to the character manager and she invited DD and her friends to a special meeting with the princesses later in the cruise to make up for her experience. I thought it was all forgotten. Getting ready for the EB repo DD was emailing new friends on the cruise and one of them asked her who her favorite character was. I laughed and said that one is easy...Cinderella. She frowned and said no. When I asked her why she said that she said it was because Cindy didn't like her and didn't want to take a picture with her. OMG!!! My heart broke right then and there. Can you imagine if this had happened with the CM helping Mickey? We talked about it and I told her the reason she went to that special party was because Cinderella was so upset that her friend had done that to her. She was okay with that and happy to see her on the cruise but DD8 now showed me how much of an impact one action that lasts 10 seconds can have on a child.

 

[cruisinmama06]

yes, it was nursemaid's elbow. as i said, i am a physician assistant, so it was clear to me. but this is still quite an injury in a kids club for 3-4 year olds on a disney ship!

but unnoticed?

and the counselor certainly didn't "own up to it"! i think if i were the counselor, the sheer horror of injuring someone would've made me run and tell someone that a child was injured and that i did it accidentally.

But her own father didn't say anything until he got back to the cabin. If the injury was so obvious, then why not question it when he picked her up?

I know your child was hurt. I honestly believe that you are owed some kind of apology and assurance that this will not happen again. But beyond that, what do you think should happen?

 

[cathicool]

i know!

so everyone we see of course says "how was your trip?" and the first thing my DD says is "not good....the girl in kids club with the yellow shirt and white tag at the top of the slide hurt my arm and then i went down the slide and i cried and my arm didn't work". she does make the distinction that she was pulled before she was sliding. i don't think the slide had anything to do with the incident. i really believe the counselor was just too rough with her. perhaps my DD was not getting to the slide quick enough or was standing in the way and blocking traffic, etc. but i don't think it was out of fear for her safety that this incident occurred. the counselor had to know she pulled on her pretty hard.

i actually did exactly this to my son at LGA airport on our way to Ft. Meyers about 2 years ago. My son has low tone and is quite flexible. He ran from me and was being incredibley disobedient. So when I finally caught up to him and verbally voiced my displeasure, he responded by collapsing to the ground. I grabbed his arm to pull him up and yep, dislocated his elbow. But my son is autistic and could not tell me that his arm was hurt, but it was obvious that something significant happened as he whinced everytime i went near it. we flew to florida and went straight to the ER and it was reduced and that was that. BUT my son has very low tone, didn't walk til he was well over 2 years old, etc. My DD does not have any tone issues. And admittedly, it was a strong tug to get him off the floor. So if this is what this counselor did to my daughter- without low tone issues- imagine the force she must have exerted to dislocate her elbow!

 

[cruisinmama06]

Wait, you did the same thing to your son? So you see how an accident can occur?

It seems like you want this counselors head on a platter where as you admit yourself that you did it to your other child.

 

[cathicool]

my husband was carrying our sleeping 6 year old and our 4 year old was walking next to him complaining her arm hurt. he figured she was doing what kids do---he said he realized on the elevator when he had a moment to look at her that she was immobilizing her arm. i ran into them as they were getting off the elevator and he told me. i looked at her and we immediately returned to the kids club. dropped off our still sleeping 6 year old and headed for the clinic. this wasn't an hour later, we returned back within 5 minutes i'd say.

 

[cathicool]

HUH???? i do not want htis counselors head on a platter. i think i have been clear that i am going on the assumption that this was an accident. but that she did not own up to it and that noone noticed it is disturbing and the issue at hand.

i did do this to my own son; who has joint laxity issues and i was mad that he was running up and down the halls of very busy Laguardia airport. so how pissed off could this counselor have been at my DD at the top of a slide in the kids club? who by the way does not have joint issues!

AND it was way obvious that something was wrong with my son immediately after I yanked him up. And I admitted that it was my fault and cried all the way to Florida and probably screamed louder than he did when it was reduced, knowing i had caused this pain. i was too aggressive with him,i admit.

does anyone know who i should contact specifically reguarding this?

 

[Amlee]

HUH???? i do not want htis counselors head on a platter. i think i have been clear that i am going on the assumption that this was an accident. but that she did not own up to it and that noone noticed it is disturbing and the issue at hand.

i did do this to my own son; who has joint laxity issues and i was mad that he was running up and down the halls of very busy Laguardia airport. so how pissed off could this counselor have been at my DD at the top of a slide in the kids club? who by the way does not have joint issues!

AND it was way obvious that something was wrong with my son immediately after I yanked him up. And I admitted that it was my fault and cried all the way to Florida and probably screamed louder than he did when it was reduced, knowing i had caused this pain. i was too aggressive with him,i admit.

does anyone know who i should contact specifically reguarding this?

It doesn't take that much force to pull an elbow out of joint. Just a quick jerk in the wrong way can do it. I don't think this CM was yanking your daughter around the way you have it in your head.

From your post, I also have to wonder if you daughter is picking up some of your feelings about this and is voicing them. I would cool the talk around her about this and see if she doesn't calm down from it.

 

[Fizzgig]

HUH???? i do not want htis counselors head on a platter. i think i have been clear that i am going on the assumption that this was an accident. but that she did not own up to it and that noone noticed it is disturbing and the issue at hand.

i did do this to my own son; who has joint laxity issues and i was mad that he was running up and down the halls of very busy Laguardia airport. so how pissed off could this counselor have been at my DD at the top of a slide in the kids club? who by the way does not have joint issues!

AND it was way obvious that something was wrong with my son immediately after I yanked him up. And I admitted that it was my fault and cried all the way to Florida and probably screamed louder than he did when it was reduced, knowing i had caused this pain. i was too aggressive with him,i admit.

does anyone know who i should contact specifically reguarding this?

Call the DCL Reservation line and ask for a phone number, if you can't find something in the DCL FAQ post on the front of this board.

And no, I don't think you want someone's head on a platter, seeing as you look to your trip insurance to reimburse you for the $154 charge from the health clinic, and you are looking to give feedback, versus where to send legal paperwork.

===
Oh, and my mom still has your lanyards. For some reason, Guest Services thought she was coming to pick them up...? Anyway, we didn't find you on the cruise to hand them over to you.

 

[owensjro]

Sorry to hear this happened to your child. Arm injuries (elbow/shoulder) have always been a fear of mine as my daughter is very slight of build and I constantly worry that tugs on her arms could cause injury.

Although this does not help now I would recommend to everyone that you do not leave the ship without resolution on matters such as this as once you are off the cruise communication and resolution becomes more difficult (especially in regards to medical bills as a result of injury while on board). I probably would have escalated it outside of the kid's club management chain.

It's definitely a tricky situation as you want to understand what happened, want to make sure it doesn't happen again, and want proper compensation for it. In order to find out what happened you have to expose your child to revisiting the event (looking at pictures of CM's, recounting the problem multiple times to different people, etc) which can increase the sense of wrongness for the child.

I am not a psychologist but it seems to me you need get some resolution for your child. You mentioned that this counselor did not own up to it. Was this person confronted with it? One thing you may consider is writing a letter to the person and asking for a reply with an apology to your daughter. Kids have an amazing ability to forgive and forget and her hearing that the counselor is sorry for hurting her may help her get over the fear of going back to the club as the "bad" person is no longer bad. (of course, getting a written apology may be difficult as the counselor probably would not want to put his or her guilt in writing....you could also consider writing your own letter "from" the counselor and sending it to your child).

Hope this helps. The counselors in the club seem to move on pretty frequently with only the really good ones being around year to year. With luck this particular counselor will not be with the line for long or will learn a lesson from this incident.

Jim

 

[eyeheartgoofy]

Oh my gosh! I don't know much about elbow injuries or anything. But, geesh, that sounds absolutely awful to me.

I agree that accidents happen, but I also agree that the counselor should not be a counselor anymore. If somebody is that impatient with children, then a counselor job at the kids club on a cruise ship that caters to children is not a good job!!! I know people who have no patience with kids and would probably think nothing of yanking on an arm to move a kid along on a slide ... they wouldn't intend to be malicious, but they shouldn't be working with kids!!!

Man, I would be livid! I'm so sorry that happened on your cruise!

 

[jship210]

HUH???? i do not want htis counselors head on a platter. i think i have been clear that i am going on the assumption that this was an accident. but that she did not own up to it and that noone noticed it is disturbing and the issue at hand.

i did do this to my own son; who has joint laxity issues and i was mad that he was running up and down the halls of very busy Laguardia airport. so how pissed off could this counselor have been at my DD at the top of a slide in the kids club? who by the way does not have joint issues!

AND it was way obvious that something was wrong with my son immediately after I yanked him up. And I admitted that it was my fault and cried all the way to Florida and probably screamed louder than he did when it was reduced, knowing i had caused this pain. i was too aggressive with him,i admit.

does anyone know who i should contact specifically reguarding this?

Disney Cruise Vacations
Guest Communications
Post Office Box 10238
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-023

 

[Octoberbride03]

It's pretty difficult to dislocated an elbow with out a good deal of force.

According to my DD, the incident happened at the top of the slide in the club. It seems my DD was not moving along fast enough and the counselor grabbed her arm and pulled it. My DD was emphatic that the injury/incident took place at the top of the slide and the counselor had pulled on her arm.

Actually, when a child is 4 its not hard to dislocate or break the elbow. My sister was about 4 when my mom picked her up and pop went the elbow. Mom said she didn't do it any harder than usual. But it was a lesson learned and she changed her way of picking my DS up after that.

This of course does not excuse the counselor for what happened. And If i were you I think I'd rather have the cruiseline pay for the injury than the travel insurance. I hope you get a response to your letter. And with time and some luck your DD should lose her cruising fear.

Hope she's feeling better.

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

It is called "Nursemaids Elbow" and is VERY common..happened to my daughter a few time..once when I was holding her hand and she turned around.
Each time, I was sure the ER would call CP on me!! But the Dr said under the age of 5, it is very common..the joint hasn't hardened or something like that

I too said "you're fine..stop whining" when it happened the first time...oh yeah, the guilt