Kid's Club counselor dislocated my daughter's elbow....

[IwannaseeMickey]

Have to chime in about the counselor's "not noticing"...my 4 yr old nephew (quiet and shy) sat in a corner for 3 hours apparently, after I discussed w/ them how he might need some encouraging, and then when we went to pick them up, they informed us that I had already picked him up and were perplexed when I told them I had been in Palo and then to Flounders to pick up the baby...not there. He kept reading the computer screen where he repeated 3-4 times, "no, he's been picked up by XXX"--uh, no, XXX is me and I just walked up to get him. After 5-10 long minutes they found him in the computer area in the corner all alone...believe me, he wasn't going back!

This was the Wonder on Sept 7.

 

[mom2two2]

My son was prone to elbow dislocation when he was younger. It can happen as easily as tripping and falling on it wrong. My son actually had his popped out once when my DD and he were pushing a little. My DD grabbed his arm (as I was saying "WATCH HIS ARM!!") and without any force at all, out it came again. (She felt horrid) Luckily they usually grow out of this as they get bigger.

HOWEVER, having said that, it is 100% UNACCEPTABLE that this happened at all and if your daughter is saying someone pulled her arm, you know it was not just her falling etc. I think it is DISGUSTING that she had a dislocated arm and not only did no one notice but it was not even dealt with until you walked her back to the club and questioned it.

Who cares if they sent trinkets and whatever? Pursue this.

 

[murcor]

it is UNACCEPTABLE that no one noticed or did anything therefore I would not have left my child there again !!!

 

[jimjulie01]

As to your question on why no one noticed...

This happened to my daughter when she was 2 years old. It is called "Nurses Maid Elbow" When they are growing so quickly they joints are often larger than the bone, which makes them slip easier. It can happen when you change their shirts or lift them to step on a curb.

We have been through this 3 times..the dr's said it is something she would grow out of. Sure enough she 5 now and over it.

For whatever reason the kids hide this when it happens. You really have to pay attention to them to see it happen. Otherwise it does not hurt at first and they just keep they keep their arm down or in a "sling like" position. I am not trying to defend disney by any means but if the conselors do not know the kids they may not notice it.

 

[cathicool]

so i wrote a letter to disney explaining what happened and how disappointed we were with it, etc.
today--after me calling and leaving no less than 10 messages, i got a call from someone in risk management. disney is willing to reimburse for the clinic bill and for my daughters cruise....about $600 all together. the lady i spoke to said that she is not entirely sure that a disney employee is at fault!

any comments? of course i am sure i will have to sign a waiver of some sort as well.

thanks....

 

[ontariomonkey]

#1 sorry this happened to dd.
#2 accidents happen but the right thing to do is own up to it.
#3 concerns me that you were not paged if dd was crying etc.

Well that settlement sounds very reasonable as long as there is no long term damage. I would have her checked out by your own physician before signing anything to release them from liability just in case. And I am sure that you will have to sign a confidentiality agreement so this is prob the last we will hear of this ha ha.

 

[cyndik1111]

1st- I am so sorry your cruise was spoiled by this and I am sorry your daughter had the injury. You must have been terrified at the thought of your daughter getting hurt when you weren't around, and no one comforting her or doing anything about it. I know I would have been a mess! but...

Before you tar and feather the CM on the DCL and get everyone paranoid about the club, PLEASE talk to an ER doc/NP/PA about this.

I have working in emergency medicine for over 10 years as a PA.
I lost count how many "nursemaid elbows" I've reduced.
The correct term is radial head subluxation. It is only a partial dislocation of one of the bones that makes up the elbow. It should not be compared to any adult dislocation. Adult dislocations take a ton of force to happen, these do not.
The mechanism of injury can be quite small and the pain isn't always immediate. Many children will hold their arm bent and close to their body while they play for hours after this has occurred. Only crying or complaining when you make them move that arm. With a typical history and this presentation, I usually try to get them to grab something they really want with that arm. If they wont, I have my Dx. (i'm not saying this is how it was with your daughter)

It is usually a tug or pull of the arm that causes it. And it can most certainly go unnoticed. AN ER doctor I use to work with did it to his own daughter one day in the waiting room while we were working. His wife was so mad at him, I had to reduce it. He had grabbed her arm to pull her close to him for a kiss, it happened so quickly. He was devastated. But luckily it is a relatively minor injury. Usually no lasting effects- except once it has happened, the child is at risk for it happening again until about age 6 or so.

Now, The CM may have pulled her hard, may have noticed that she hurt her and didn't say anything, but then again she may not have.

Please note that this injury can happen to any child anywhere by anyone.
Most common causes-
1) swinging the child by their arm
2) pulling a child up
3) You are walking in the mall holding toddler's hand. Toddler sees a toy she wants and pulls the other way- you are still pulling her your way- pop out goes the arm.

My point is, in the grand scheme of things, this is a minor injury. People can still put their kids in the club and feel as safe as they did before.

I hope she is OK now.
Xrays aren't a bad idea if she complains of pain days after this. Sometimes (rarely) they can have a small chip fracture of the radial head. But the treatment at this point would probably be watchful waiting.
Good luck

 

[cruisin'momto3]

ughh, I can imagine how upset you were/are.

My suggestion for your daughter's sake would be to downplay the incident, just as you would if she had broken her foot, fell, or gotten a scrape. I would take the approach that an injury could happen anywhere.....and point that out the next time she falls. Try to take the responsibility away from the person/cruise and focus on it being an accident. That way she will not associate it with the cruise, just a boo-boo.

Now, I understand you don't feel the same way about it, as I sure wouldn't, but it doesn't do her any good to make that association. KWIM
Kids are so resilient....I'm sure she will soon be looking forward to her next cruise!! Ali

 

[chrisann]

honestly, to me it just sounds like bad luck. From what everyone has written, it seems like it's very easy for a child to be injured unintentionally and unless they are screaming and hollaring, have noone notice. Did your doughter actually go to a counsellor and tell them her arm hurt? The only thing I'm wondering, is when she got injured for whatever reason at the kids club, why on earth would you send her back there the next night. That's the one part I don't agree with Even if it meant missing dinner at Palos, there is no way I'd send my kids back to the place they were just injured at.

 

[sbell111]

Sometimes, kids get hurt and it's no one's fault. Accidents happen.

Sometimes, adults don't notice that there's a problem, even when they are actively looking for problems.

Dislocated elbows frequently happen in children. I know of one instance where the child grabbed hold of the top of a slide to stop himself from sliding down and dislocated his own elbow.

Disney has many procedures in effect to ensure that the chances of harm to the children in their care is minimized, but no one can completely eliminate all harm and error. Things happen.

There's nothing to see here.

 

[mmackeymouse]

I am so terribly sorry about your predicament. But, I was happy to hear DCL's compensation for the incident. It sounds more than fair.

I know your main concern was why the counselors did not notice that she was injured, and I think the answer for all of us, yourself included, is there is just no answers. Without being an eye witness, with a 4 year old, it is just impossible to know.

It is absolutely possible that the counselors were negligent, that they were not paying enough attention. It is also entirely possible that your daughter acted somewhat normal, given the circumstances.

When I was in pre-school, we had this little playhouse, and me and a couple of other kids were in there. I had lifted up my shirt for whatever reason, and they stabbed me with a stick. It went through my skin, and I bled a decent amount. I cried of course, but then I put my shirt back down, blood soaked through, but I went about my business. I did not say a word to anyone, but for the entire rest of the day, all of the daycare providers (whom I still know personally to this day, and are all great people) never noticed me walking funny or the blood stains on my shirt.

Now, of course my mother, we were not even to the car when she noticed that I was walking a little weird. She informs me that my response to why I was walking that way was "Nothin." Of course, halfway home she notced the blood. And honestly, I don't think my dad would have noticed either. I think it is one of those things mothers just... know.

I am not saying your daughter was lying or confused or anything like that. It is completely within the realm of possibility that the counselors WERE irresponsible or inattentive. But, as it is, none of us really know. It may just be "one of those things."

I have also been on the other side of this as well. I am not trained in child care, but I have worked at a daycare, as a substitute teacher, and at at a girls club. And I know that I could interact with a child 1000 times, and if I do something one time to discipline them or injure them, that is the one thing that sticks in their mind, not all the other fun and great things we did. That is just the psychology of youngsters sometimes.

So, I guess what I am saying is I wish I knew what to tell you regarding your daughter's mindset. It is not all that uncommon. Think about it. We all know that one child that had a bad experience in a pool, then won't go near a pool for years, but eventually grows out of it. Or, someone that falls down learning to ride a bike. Some kids get right back on. Some kids have to wait a while before trying again. Sometimes it does not take much for kids to get over a fear or bad experience, and sometimes it does. I do not think there is any particular rhyme or reason as to who takes more time, how long it takes, or what it takes to overcome it.

 

[cats mom]

Obviously lots of Dis-ers don't read the whole thread, nor do they notice the original post date.

OP, you might want to add something like: Update pg 3 to your title if you want feedback on the latest developments.


Personally I'd take what DCL is offering and move on.

From your original post it sounds like you wanted DCL to waive the fees for your visit to the medical center. Although they didn't step up at the time; they've offered what you wanted, and then some, now.

Granted acknowledgement and an apology from the counselor in question would have been nice. But IMO that wasn't likely to happen anyway, especially once you reported the incident and basically escalated it to a complaint at guest services. At that point I imagine DCL has to go into protection mode. Sad but true.

I do understand how upsetting it can be to see your little one in pain, especially when you didn't see what happened, nor were you able to be there to comfort her. But not being there to see what happened it's also possible that you're imagining the incident as being worse than it really was.

I'd suggest paying close attention to Cyndik1111's post. It really is a minor injury in the grand scheme of things... and I say that as a parent who has lived through it more than once since I have one of those kids who was prone it when she was younger. Sheesh, there were times when DD didn't even realize what had happened to dislocate her elbow.

Hopefully you haven't had any other incidents with the elbow in the past few months and your DD is doing well now.

 

[gmark2000]

While the compensation is reasonable in light of the circumstance, the four months for this incident to be resolved is troubling. This happened in September and you just got word in February? DCL needs to work on its responsiveness.

 

[asreitzel]

I think it is nice that DCL offered you some compensation for what happened and hopefully this situation has been reflected in the Club CM training so they know how to avoid it and the signs of when it has happened (other than crying, because not all kids will cry).

I personally can attest to being ignorant when my own DD had this happen on the playground. I noticed she was holding her arm funny, but she never cried and continued to play. I even asked if she was hurt and she insisted she wasn't (I think she was afraid to have me examine it or to go to the doctor). 3 hours later I went to change her shirt and the screaming started. now I know what to look for, but I had no idea at the time.

 

[mmackeymouse]

Obviously lots of Dis-ers don't read the whole thread, nor do they notice the original post date.

From your original post it sounds like you wanted DCL to waive the fees for your visit to the medical center. Although they didn't step up at the time; they've offered what you wanted, and then some, now.

Right, this is what a lot of people questioned. And, the way I look at it, the medical center may not even have the authority to waive the fee. And, to be frank, I am not even sure anyone on the ship has the authority to waive fees. It likely has to go through channels before it gets resolved.

I mean I really do not know how the Medical Center works in regards to DCL. People are always concerned about servers getting stiffed. If the medical center would have waived the fee, it is doubtful that DCL or your travel insurance would have paid them for your work. So, the doctor and medical staff would not have gotten paid for seeing your daughter, as minor a procedure as it was.

Now, if the medical staff charged the fee, as they did, that leaves you free to go after DCL or get the money from your insurance, in which case it is coming out of DCL's pocket, not the doctor's. Make sense?

 

[gmark2000]

FYI - The Medical Center is contracted out and staffed by Vanter Cruise Health Services.

 

[Sinderelly]

I'm sorry this happened to your family and your daughter. I think everyone could be alot kinder...just a thought. The important thing is making sure your daughter is okay from this both physically and mentally. It doesn't matter who noticed the injury first or when. The important thing here is that it happened and the way the Cms handled the situation.

Maybe you should consider speaking with a personal injury attorney regarding the incident. Taking on Disney and signing release forms might be a bit overwelming. I work as a paralegal for a personal injury firm and we all aren't so bad lol. Most attorneys will do a free consult and give you some advice.

I hope your daughter's arm is okay and that in the future she wants to cruise again. I also hope the CM that did this is not allowed to work around children again. Whether the injury was caused by a "yank, pull or gentle tug, she should know better than to pull a child by the arm. How bout a gentle hand on the small of the back if she needs some help getting down the slide?

Hugs to daughter and family!

 

[sharen24]

I'm sorry this happened to your family and your daughter. I think everyone could be alot kinder...just a thought. The important thing is making sure your daughter is okay from this both physically and mentally. It doesn't matter who noticed the injury first or when. The important thing here is that it happened and the way the Cms handled the situation.

Maybe you should consider speaking with a personal injury attorney regarding the incident. Taking on Disney and signing release forms might be a bit overwelming. I work as a paralegal for a personal injury firm and we all aren't so bad lol. Most attorneys will do a free consult and give you some advice.

I hope your daughter's arm is okay and that in the future she wants to cruise again. I also hope the CM that did this is not allowed to work around children again. Whether the injury was caused by a "yank, pull or gentle tug, she should know better than to pull a child by the arm. How bout a gentle hand on the small of the back if she needs some help getting down the slide?

Hugs to daughter and family!

Now we know why Disney has to charge such high prices!

 

[kimpossible]

I am totally shocked at this. I am so glad that Disney is reimbursing you some of your expenses.

My biggest fear, however, is sending my 2 boys to the clubs on the Wonder in May.

I always hear such good things, now I am a bit nervous, to say the least.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

1st- I am so sorry your cruise was spoiled by this and I am sorry your daughter had the injury. You must have been terrified at the thought of your daughter getting hurt when you weren't around, and no one comforting her or doing anything about it. I know I would have been a mess! but...

Before you tar and feather the CM on the DCL and get everyone paranoid about the club, PLEASE talk to an ER doc/NP/PA about this.

I have working in emergency medicine for over 10 years as a PA.
I lost count how many "nursemaid elbows" I've reduced.
The correct term is radial head subluxation. It is only a partial dislocation of one of the bones that makes up the elbow. It should not be compared to any adult dislocation. Adult dislocations take a ton of force to happen, these do not.
The mechanism of injury can be quite small and the pain isn't always immediate. Many children will hold their arm bent and close to their body while they play for hours after this has occurred. Only crying or complaining when you make them move that arm. With a typical history and this presentation, I usually try to get them to grab something they really want with that arm. If they wont, I have my Dx. (i'm not saying this is how it was with your daughter)

It is usually a tug or pull of the arm that causes it. And it can most certainly go unnoticed. AN ER doctor I use to work with did it to his own daughter one day in the waiting room while we were working. His wife was so mad at him, I had to reduce it. He had grabbed her arm to pull her close to him for a kiss, it happened so quickly. He was devastated. But luckily it is a relatively minor injury. Usually no lasting effects- except once it has happened, the child is at risk for it happening again until about age 6 or so.

Now, The CM may have pulled her hard, may have noticed that she hurt her and didn't say anything, but then again she may not have.

Please note that this injury can happen to any child anywhere by anyone.
Most common causes-
1) swinging the child by their arm
2) pulling a child up
3) You are walking in the mall holding toddler's hand. Toddler sees a toy she wants and pulls the other way- you are still pulling her your way- pop out goes the arm.

My point is, in the grand scheme of things, this is a minor injury. People can still put their kids in the club and feel as safe as they did before.

I hope she is OK now.
Xrays aren't a bad idea if she complains of pain days after this. Sometimes (rarely) they can have a small chip fracture of the radial head. But the treatment at this point would probably be watchful waiting.
Good luck

Thankyou for such an informative post.

I'm sorry this happened to your family and your daughter. I think everyone could be alot kinder...just a thought. The important thing is making sure your daughter is okay from this both physically and mentally. It doesn't matter who noticed the injury first or when. The important thing here is that it happened and the way the Cms handled the situation.

Maybe you should consider speaking with a personal injury attorney regarding the incident. Taking on Disney and signing release forms might be a bit overwelming. I work as a paralegal for a personal injury firm and we all aren't so bad lol. Most attorneys will do a free consult and give you some advice.

I hope your daughter's arm is okay and that in the future she wants to cruise again. I also hope the CM that did this is not allowed to work around children again. Whether the injury was caused by a "yank, pull or gentle tug, she should know better than to pull a child by the arm. How bout a gentle hand on the small of the back if she needs some help getting down the slide?

Hugs to daughter and family!

I am totally shocked at this. I am so glad that Disney is reimbursing you some of your expenses.

My biggest fear, however, is sending my 2 boys to the clubs on the Wonder in May.

I always hear such good things, now I am a bit nervous, to say the least.

Did you read the docs post that I have quoted?
I am sure like a billion other kids they will be fine and love it.