kides say Magic Bands have ruined Disney

[JimmyV]

but it appears the argument is there shouldn't HAVE to be anything you need to learn in order to plan a day at a theme park.

Yes, that is exactly the argument.

Of course at WDW those days are over.

Yes they are, and that is what is making some people angry or sad.

 

[JimmyV]

Neither view point is a valid argument for the OP. Nothing has changed from June 2014 to now. We were last May and we knew to change when we made the FP+s at 60 days.

So this brands you as a new breed super-user. The OP is obviously not. All of a sudden people are blamed and ridiculed for not being part of the FP+ cognoscenti. It all seems so easy to the experienced Dis-er. We are the minority.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

But there is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it enough you will stop going. That or adapting is really your only remedy.

If you're going to keep going the least you can do is try to help others adapt if they wish to (including readers other than the OP). Or if we see someone saying "here's what happened and I'll never go back" the only acceptable response is "I understand."

 

[momof2n2]

This isn't ever going to happen, because the ENTIRE POINT of FP+ is to get more guests using the FP return lanes, and to get them planning it at least a little bit in advance. Disney appears to have very consciously decided that they want to take some re-rides on the most popular attractions with limited capacity away from the FP super-users, and spread that limited attraction capacity to other guests. Disney apparently believes that by doing so, they will have a larger number of happier guests overall, even though there are definitely some guests who are less happy. Those who don't like that will have to content themselves with either changing their Florida touring style to either cut down on re-rides or wait in standby, or by visiting California instead where old-style FP is still in use. For the record, I am a former FP super user. We've adjusted our touring style to do fewer headliner re-rides, and more of the "lesser" attractions. We still avoid the longer standby lines. We've found our trips are just as enjoyable as ever, but they are different.

They likely could have moved things at 60 days out. Indeed, I am certain of it. But people seem to be assuming that this is a high priority for all Disney visitors. Not everyone uber-plans that way. Find fault with people for not locking things in at 60 days. That's fine. But understand that the vast majority of guests will not do that. FP+ has simply created a new breed of super-user. The point is, before, when you were 5 days away from your vacation and had done little to no planning, you were at no disadvantage whatsoever when you crossed through the turnstile. Now, you are. Is the solution to pre-plan? Sure. But that is where the angst comes from. Not everyone wants to or will. Sucks to be them? I suppose. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that FP+ is somehow more equitable than FP-. FP- favored a certain kind of super-user, and FP+ favors a different kind of super-user.

I have to agree with Brian. FP+ was not implemented to benefit the super-users, but to "thwart" them. If the super users of FP- don't like FP+ then it's doing what Disney intended for it to do. And Jimmy's right, they have created a new breed of super-user. So it's either learn the system, or give up. Which is why I take the OP at their word when they say they aren't interested in going back. Maybe there's something they didnt' know about, or maybe not, but it appears the argument is there shouldn't HAVE to be anything you need to learn in order to plan a day at a theme park. Of course at WDW those days are over.

See. I appreciate it when folks at least admit that WDW turned off some of its fans.

We like Disney a lot, but not enough (apparently) to go back with lower expectations. Not with the price tag. Not as off-siters. Not yet.

I did take my money elsewhere 2014 and I expect we are taking it to the DCL arm again in 2015. But I'll keep checking back to the boards and I hope there will always be reports from my style tourers to help me make choices for my family.

 

[ilovemk76]

So this brands you as a new breed super-user. The OP is obviously not. All of a sudden people are blamed and ridiculed for not being part of the FP+ cognoscenti. It all seems so easy to the experienced Dis-er. We are the minority.

You can't stand to be wrong. She has had as many trips as I have and actually two since my last trip. You cannot admit that she knew how it worked but, for whatever reason, chose to do it her way. You also cannot admit that maybe the problem was the time of the year and not FP+. I know I would not like it this time of the year no matter the type of FP available was available, or if there was none.

The OP has been a DISer for 6 years longer than I have. It would seem she should know the ins and outs as wells as or better than I do.

 

[JimmyV]

You can't stand to be wrong. She has had as many trips as I have and actually two since my last trip. You cannot admit that she knew how it worked but, for whatever reason, chose to do it her way. You also cannot admit that maybe the problem was the time of the year and not FP+. I know I would not like it this time of the year not matter the type of FP available, or if there was none.

The OP has been a DISer for 6 years longer than I have. It would seem she should know the ins and outs as wells as or better than I do.

You are conflating knowledge with willingness.

 

[mom2rtk]

The OP has been a DISer for 6 years longer than I have. It would seem she should know the ins and outs as wells as or better than I do.

And you have 13 times as many posts as her. That doesn't mean she's read all the FP threads and knows as much as you do.

 

[SuperTink]

It's crazy that people can't post an opinion on here without it being torn to pieces. Crazy.

Can't understand why people are so defensive and threatened about someone
else's experience, but they sure seem to be.

Very strange, indeed.

 

[Brian Noble]

They likely could have moved things at 60 days out. Indeed, I am certain of it. But people seem to be assuming that this is a high priority for all Disney visitors. Not everyone uber-plans that way. Find fault with people for not locking things in at 60 days. That's fine. But understand that the vast majority of guests will not do that. FP+ has simply created a new breed of super-user. The point is, before, when you were 5 days away from your vacation and had done little to no planning, you were at no disadvantage whatsoever when you crossed through the turnstile. Now, you are. Is the solution to pre-plan? Sure. But that is where the angst comes from. Not everyone wants to or will. Sucks to be them? I suppose. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that FP+ is somehow more equitable than FP-. FP- favored a certain kind of super-user, and FP+ favors a different kind of super-user.

There are some differences, because the advantages to the "advance planner" under FP+ are not as stark as the advantages offered to the wily FP runner of old. Advance planners still can't prebook more than 3/day, they still can't prebook two experiences on a single attraction, and they are still subject to the tiering rules in Epcot and Studios. So, at least in those senses, FP+ is more equitable.

Furthermore, I don't think "no advance planning" at 5 days is quite accurate---to get anywhere near the maximum benefit from old-style FP running, you had to do a good bit of study at some point. Veterans could amortize that over many visits because the rules changed infrequently, but a newbie with no advance planning as of 5 days of their visit was at a disadvantage in either system.

On the other hand, if you are willing to do *something* as late as 5 days out, FP+ is still useful. As I type this, the EasyWDW "least recommended park" five days hence is Magic Kingdom. I can book FP+ for a party of two for any operating FP+ attraction in MK except MSEP, A&E, 7DMT, and Wishes. That's not terrible.

That said, I do agree with you that FP+ is designed to favor advance planners. Indeed, I suspect the decision to favor advance planners is another very conscious one on Disney's part. Over a decade ago, Disney leadership gave a presentation to a bunch of stock analysts. Here's one of the things they said:

Research shows that guests drop things from their itinerary once they arrive instead of adding experiences to their vacation. Because of this, it is important to Disney that guests purchase their experiences from home. ... Local guests are being lured by other parks recent deep discounting. Jim used the example of Sea World, where for the price of a one day ticket, you can return all year. This is another example of why Disney wants guests to be sold before they enter the market where they can be attracted to competitors because of discounts.

Mind you, this was BEFORE Magic Your Way, the Dining Plan, Magical Express, etc. were deployed, let alone FP+, Photopass/Memory Maker, etc. If you think about it, nearly every innovation Disney has come up with in the past decade has been to encourage guests to plan things in advance, and to lock as much of that planned time to Disney as possible.

So, yes, the system favors (i.e. encourages) advance planning, because those who plan in advance are more profitable.

that is what is making some people angry or sad.

Yep. And Disney's bet---and it's an all-in, multi-billion dollar bet---is that the number of angry/sad people will be vastly outweighed by the increase in satisfaction that the casual guest gets from prebooking, and the increase in vacation time/dollars captured by encouraging more and more people to plan a little something in advance. It's hard to say that would be true only reading the DISboards, but the DIS is not at all representative of the average WDW guest.

 

[awilliams4]

On our last trip, I found myself constantly checking my device to make sure we didn't miss a FP+ reservation, instead of paying attention to the rich details that are everywhere in any Disney park. To me, it was a waste..

Do you constantly check your device for your dining reservation too to make sure you don't miss that?

 

[awilliams4]

I have to agree with Brian. FP+ was not implemented to benefit the super-users, but to "thwart" them. If the super users of FP- don't like FP+ then it's doing what Disney intended for it to do.

This. It was a business decision to make more money on a service they provide. Their goal will work (is working) too.

 

[mom2rtk]

Do you constantly check your device for your dining reservation too to make sure you don't miss that?

You must schedule more ADRs than we do.

 

[momof2n2]

Do you constantly check your device for your dining reservation too to make sure you don't miss that?

Dude. No. That's weird.
Remembering I've got one dinner at 5 isn't the same as which mountain was 10:35 and which one was 3:10.

 

[awilliams4]

Dude. No. That's weird.
Remembering I've got one dinner at 5 isn't the same as which mountain was 10:35 and which one was 3:10.

I suspect that if I did have one at 10:35 and one at 5, checking my device one time should just about do it for clarifying which one was which.

 

[bobbiwoz]

There are some differences, because the advantages to the "advance planner" under FP+ are not as stark as the advantages offered to the wily FP runner of old. Advance planners still can't prebook more than 3/day, they still can't prebook two experiences on a single attraction, and they are still subject to the tiering rules in Epcot and Studios. So, at least in those senses, FP+ is more equitable.

Furthermore, I don't think "no advance planning" at 5 days is quite accurate---to get anywhere near the maximum benefit from old-style FP running, you had to do a good bit of study at some point. Veterans could amortize that over many visits because the rules changed infrequently, but a newbie with no advance planning as of 5 days of their visit was at a disadvantage in either system.

On the other hand, if you are willing to do *something* as late as 5 days out, FP+ is still useful. As I type this, the EasyWDW "least recommended park" five days hence is Magic Kingdom. I can book FP+ for a party of two for any operating FP+ attraction in MK except MSEP, A&E, 7DMT, and Wishes. That's not terrible.

That said, I do agree with you that FP+ is designed to favor advance planners. Indeed, I suspect the decision to favor advance planners is another very conscious one on Disney's part. Over a decade ago, Disney leadership gave a presentation to a bunch of stock analysts. Here's one of the things they said:



Mind you, this was BEFORE Magic Your Way, the Dining Plan, Magical Express, etc. were deployed, let alone FP+, Photopass/Memory Maker, etc. If you think about it, nearly every innovation Disney has come up with in the past decade has been to encourage guests to plan things in advance, and to lock as much of that planned time to Disney as possible.

So, yes, the system favors (i.e. encourages) advance planning, because those who plan in advance are more profitable.


Yep. And Disney's bet---and it's an all-in, multi-billion dollar bet---is that the number of angry/sad people will be vastly outweighed by the increase in satisfaction that the casual guest gets from prebooking, and the increase in vacation time/dollars captured by encouraging more and more people to plan a little something in advance. It's hard to say that would be true only reading the DISboards, but the DIS is not at all representative of the average WDW guest.

Very interesting!

 

[Brian Noble]

See. I appreciate it when folks at least admit that WDW turned off some of its fans.

We like Disney a lot, but not enough (apparently) to go back with lower expectations. Not with the price tag. Not as off-siters. Not yet.

I did take my money elsewhere 2014 and I expect we are taking it to the DCL arm again in 2015. But I'll keep checking back to the boards and I hope there will always be reports from my style tourers to help me make choices for my family.

There are lots of other options. California still has old-style FP. If you find yourself near Paris (we have) it also has old-style FP, but on many fewer attractions and with only a half-hour (enforced) return window. DCL is lovely---I'd recommend Alaska to anyone. As someone who just got back from an offsite stay over Christmas at Wyndham Bonnet Creek, I was reminded how similar my WDW vacations there are to my stays in DVC villas.

There are also tons of great non-Disney vacations out there. My wife and daughter are spending President's Week at Universal. We spent a week this summer in Sedona and the Grand Canyon. We spent a full week of our France vacation in an apartment in the Marais exploring Paris. We've done a week in a guest ranch at the doorstep to Rocky Mountain National Park. We often rent a beach house on the OBX. We have a (non-DVC) stay at Hilton Head this summer, and are planning a (non-Aulani) Hawaii stay for the summer after that. My son is agitating for Italy down the road, and I still want to get to Tokyo. (Okay, I admit I'll go to TDR while I am there, but...)

There are many ways to skin the vacation cat.

 

[Suvadoo]

Do you constantly check your device for your dining reservation too to make sure you don't miss that?

Why do I have to defend myself to you?

 

[awilliams4]

Why do I have to defend myself to you?

I don't know, ask yourself, you replied.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

When was your trip? When we were there in August, we had little problems moving things around the day of. This December (December 13-20) was a totally different story. There were NO alternative times to be had, and the 4th FP+ availability was crap. I ran my phone battery out multiple days trying to get any 4th FP+ worth getting. It was a very frustrating experience, and very, very different from what we experienced in August. It's led me to conclude that FP+ only works well when you really don't have that great of a need for it--in low crowd times. The crowds were low in August (probably because it was 8000 degrees outside) but moderate to high-moderate in December. Once you get to average crowds, your options with FP+ constrict considerably. We were at the parks for 8 days in December, and I was able to pull what appeared to be a useful 4th FP+ exactly once--and I only got that by splitting the group up. Now, I will say I was searching for a party of 4. If you're a single traveler, you're going to have a better experience with FP+.

We were there November 28 through December 5th. The weekend after Thanksgiving was crazy busy, but I ALWAYS found MK to be crowded. The only decent day we had was our MVMCP day (the 2nd) but even then I overheard a couple of people saying it was more crowded than they had thought it would be. As for the kiosks, I never was able to find one, lol! I saw a sign for one near Jungle Cruise but never did locate it. I wasn't looking very hard either. I had scheduled most of our fps for evenings to allow for naps, down time and park hopping. That particular day I had fps for HS, but we had done the Wonderland Tea Party at the Grand Floridian, and met our party at MK before heading to HS.

ETA: As it was, through a series of events, my party was only able to use 1 of the 3 fps I had gotten for HS - while my husband and I never made it there at all. (To explain, my backpack was stolen and my husband and I waited at Customer Services at MK until park close hoping to recover it and after searching, the rest of the party arrived at HS too late to use 2 of the 3 fps - we sent them on while we waited because we didn't want to ruin everyone's day).

 

[Suvadoo]

I don't know, ask yourself, you replied.

Yes, I did. Only to express my disdain for you and your comment.