kides say Magic Bands have ruined Disney

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If Disney is doing something that their even a significant portion of their most loyal return guests no longer enjoy returning, or are told they shouldn't go as often because Disney somehow becomes off-putting or they enjoy their vacations less ...

DISNEY is doing something wrong, not the people who go there.

Especially not the people who used to go quite frequently, but due to a major change in WDW systems are no longer enjoying their stay as much.

But if it yields more income and more profit in the long run, is it really something wrong?

As it were, we were loyal guests who returned often, but we do little to pad the profits as far as being a theme park guest is concerned. So if my business was "lost", but they gained 3 new customers who spent more each on one trip than I did in 14 years...did Disney really do anything wrong even though I was a loyal guest who walked in the door pretty often?

Obviously one quarter is insufficient. So my question is hypothetical.

 

[Dr Gevil]

You forgot, "You don't have kids, so your opinion of how you will react to future kids in this situation is utterly laughable".

Shhhhhhh. I'm saving that for vol. 2 when the next FP+ thread starts.

 

[famy27]

But if it yields more income and more profit in the long run, is it really something wrong?

As it were, we were loyal guests who returned often, but we do little to pad the profits as far as being a theme park guest is concerned. So if my business was "lost", but they gained 3 new customers who spent more each on one trip than I did in 14 years...did Disney really do anything wrong even though I was a loyal guest who walked in the door pretty often?

Obviously one quarter is insufficient. So my question is hypothetical.

Of course, those new guests are all well and good when the economy is in decent shape, but if things go south in that department, the loyal guests and locals are what keeps WDW chugging along. If they manage to alienate too many, that would seem like a pretty big problem. The 30-day FP window for APs doesn't appear to have been very popular with the locals, from what I've read and heard.

 

[famy27]

But to be fair, the level of heat escalates equally when people won't acknowledge that FP+ is working great for some people. And I think some of this might be jealousy. I sense that many of the frustrated people are the ones who used to glean an advantage over "novices" by heading to the park with well thought-out spreadsheets, plans of attack and strategies derived from years of experience, all of which enabled them to get the better of the neophytes who didn't know how to use FP-, didn't know they could use FP-, or simply did not maximize the use of FP-. Now, with so many more people using FP+, and with many of those people being relative novices, the touring advantage of the cognoscenti has eroded and is in danger of evaporating altogether. People who used to be at the very top of the touring pyramid are now stuck in the middle alongside everyone else. It hurts to be taken down several pegs. And on the way down, many of these folks fail to (or refuse to) recognize that many people toward the bottom of the pyramid have been raised up. So while it is true that there is a lack of recognition that FP+ sucks for some people, there is also a failure to recognize that FP+ has been great for others.

I don't know. I still feel that with FP+, I have a giant advantage over the novice WDW guest (probably even more than I even did with paper FP). I've learned a bunch of tricks and ways to manipulate the system from my time here. With paper, my tricks were 1) get to the parks before noon 2) pull FP and look at the time on the bottom of the ticket to see when I could get the next FP.

Now, I know about cancelling Tier 2s to get more Tier 1s, websites that show FP+ availability, how to change FP times most efficiently, when to use the app and when to use the website, how to get overlapping FPs by checking smaller party sizes, what to prebook and what to get as 4th FPs, checking in at the first Mickey scanner and hopping out of line if you couldn't get overlapping FP times, how to use the kiosks to get the best extra FPs, knowing which kiosks have the quickest lines, etc.

We managed 11 FPs in the MK in June and could have had more if our toddler hadn't fallen asleep. We didn't wait in a single line that was over 10 minutes. We got on all the mountains and saw A&E. I've managed to get FPs for both Soarin and TT on the same day at EP and for TSMM and RNRC on my HS day. I am pretty sure that the "average" guest wouldn't come close to matching my FP+ usage.

But I still prefer paper FP, because of the tiers, the advanced planning, only being able to prebook in one park per day and the lack of same-day flexibility for headliners.

 

[JimmyV]

I believe Universal and WDW cater to two completely different types of families. Your family just happened to move from a WDW to a Universal one.

This is a jaded view that is common by those here who wear Disney goggles. But I don't know any 12 year old boys who like Thunder Mountain and Space Mountain who do not like The Mummy and The Hulk just as much if not more. These aren't two different families. 12 year olds are 12 year olds. The parents may favor Disney. But the children are not as wedded to the brand. The point that Laketravis makes is sound. It is entirely possible for children under the age of 20 to favor US, and often by a wide margin. And not because they come from "different families". As pointed out oh-so-many pages ago, look what each brand has built in the past 15 years. Disney added an expansion of Fantasyland that features movies that came out before anyone under the age of 20 was born. US built a Simpsons expansion, the Mummy, Spiderman and two Harry Potter areas--all things that are temporally relevant to guests under the age of 20. It isn't hard to believe that 16 year-olds prefer US. I know many families like Laketravis' whose kids beg to go to US and only "like" WDW. And these kids grew up in Disney families. So no. I do not believe that we live in a world of "two families".

I don't know. I still feel that with FP+, I have a giant advantage over the novice WDW guest (probably even more than I even did with paper FP). I've learned a bunch of tricks and ways to manipulate the system from my time here. With paper, my tricks were 1) get to the parks before noon 2) pull FP and look at the time on the bottom of the ticket to see when I could get the next FP.

Now, I know about cancelling Tier 2s to get more Tier 1s, websites that show FP+ availability, how to change FP times most efficiently, when to use the app and when to use the website, how to get overlapping FPs by checking smaller party sizes, what to prebook and what to get as 4th FPs, checking in at the first Mickey scanner and hopping out of line if you couldn't get overlapping FP times, how to use the kiosks to get the best extra FPs, knowing which kiosks have the quickest lines, etc.

We managed 11 FPs in the MK in June and could have had more if our toddler hadn't fallen asleep. We didn't wait in a single line that was over 10 minutes. We got on all the mountains and saw A&E. I've managed to get FPs for both Soarin and TT on the same day at EP and for TSMM and RNRC on my HS day. I am pretty sure that the "average" guest wouldn't come close to matching my FP+ usage.

But I still prefer paper FP, because of the tiers, the advanced planning, only being able to prebook in one park per day and the lack of same-day flexibility for headliners.

Great points. In cases such as yours, (without suggesting that you yourself are "frustrated"), I think that the frustration comes not from a loss of advantage, but from having to scrap the old knowledge and start all over again learning new strategies. Some old dogs don't want to learn new tricks.

 

[disneywalkers]

I think it's sad. Some kids never get to go to Disney. Proper planning changes everything. We decided to take a trip to WDW the week of thanksgiving. It was very last minute. We didn't decide to until the Saturday before thanksgiving and decided to leave the next day. We knew we wanted to park hop so I planned fastpasses in the late afternoon/evening. Do rope drop at one park and in spite of the crowds got that parks majors knocked out before noon. Had booked lunch ressies, ate and headed to the FP park and rode those. Several nights we would do one park morning and MK evening and stay till midnight/1am. We rode 7DMT every night at MK after wishes when the crowds dropped off without more than a 30 min wait. Yes all that with the T-day crowds and 6 kids ages 3, 5, 7, 9, 14 and 16. It can be done. You just have to plan right. If I can do it with only a day's notice anyone can taking advantage of their 30-60 day lead way on booking fastpasses. You don't have to have FP at your morning park. You can book your FP's and then go back in the system and tailor each one to a later time, earlier times will fill up fastest so the later ones are supremo easy to get. We are headed back January 24-feb 1. I've planned each day this way

It's not Disney's fault people don't plan better.

 

[disneywalkers]

Call me crazy, but we loved FP+ & the Magic Bands! Oh, and we go 4 to 5 times a year and no over saturation here, lol. Always something new to experience that we missed on another stay.

Right! We went 3 times in 2014. We have 2 trips planned for 2015. My 3 year old begs every few days to go ride barnstormer.

I don't know what these people mean by over saturation?!?!

I keep working around how we can work in another trip lol

 

[disneydude365]

I'm surprised at the dislike of the magic band/fastpass+ system as just went on a trip the weekend before christmas and crowds were picking up pretty heavy yet thanks to the system by far one of thebest trips i have had to the world, and i was stressing and freaking out trying to plan and get there.

some differences i noticed from your case is y'all park hop, i have personally never park hopped honestly see it as such a waste. you can't get done with on park in a day why try two?

we went to the Magic kingdom Saturday dec 20th and with the fast pass+ system we were able to do about 11-12 attractions and we didn't get to the park till about 2pm honestly i think the system helps give everyone a more fair chance at getting to ride some stuff

sorry they didnt enjoy the trip, still a little baffled as to why but agree the high peak season may be a factor

 

[Suvadoo]

I think it's sad. Some kids never get to go to Disney. Proper planning changes everything. We decided to take a trip to WDW the week of thanksgiving. It was very last minute. We didn't decide to until the Saturday before thanksgiving and decided to leave the next day. We knew we wanted to park hop so I planned fastpasses in the late afternoon/evening. Do rope drop at one park and in spite of the crowds got that parks majors knocked out before noon. Had booked lunch ressies, ate and headed to the FP park and rode those. Several nights we would do one park morning and MK evening and stay till midnight/1am. We rode 7DMT every night at MK after wishes when the crowds dropped off without more than a 30 min wait. Yes all that with the T-day crowds and 6 kids ages 3, 5, 7, 9, 14 and 16. It can be done. You just have to plan right. If I can do it with only a day's notice anyone can taking advantage of their 30-60 day lead way on booking fastpasses. You don't have to have FP at your morning park. You can book your FP's and then go back in the system and tailor each one to a later time, earlier times will fill up fastest so the later ones are supremo easy to get. We are headed back January 24-feb 1. I've planned each day this way

It's not Disney's fault people don't plan better.

I'm glad FP+ works for you and you love it. But please don't assume people who don't like FP+ aren't planners and aren't good at planning their trips.
I am a planner, my job requires meticulous planning on a daily basis. However, I do not want to make reservations for rides or for ADR's.

 

[lugnut33]

I can plan with the best of them, but I don't really want to. I especially dislike making ADRs, and have pretty much given up making them. I'm OK with eating off property and it doesn't really cost that much more time. Besides, the counter service places aren't all that much worse than most of the table service places now.

Here's the thing, I can have a perfectly good time using FP+ (especially if I find myself at a dead park), but it's just not like it used to be. I'm not getting the same thing for my dollar and that's why many of us do not like the new system. For many of us (not all) there has been a deterioration in the value of our vacation dollars spent at WDW.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Actually, no. "Tour Story Midway Mania" replaced "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?"
"American Idol" replaced "Doug Live!", which replaced "Superstar Television" - although there may have been another show in that theater as well.

Sorry I wasn't clear here. You are correct that Toy Story Mania is now in the same location as Who Wants to Be a Millionare. When I said that American Idol took its place, I meant that WWTBAM went away at the same time that AI came to be. And, while they were in different locations in the park, they are similar attractions in the same park. So one attraction, in this case, American Idol, fills the role of the other, in this case, Millionare. TSMM is a completely different attraction so I don't see it as a replacement - just a new add.

For what it's worth, Doug Live closed years before American Idol ever came to be. The theater sat empty for that time until they opened up American Idol in it.

 

[Suvadoo]

2. Can't compare Express pass to FP+ because one has strings attached - for express pass you either have to stay onsite or pay extra.

Did you buy the extra-cost Express pass, and the extra-cost ticket to access Hogwarts Express?

Yes there are extra expenses with the Express Pass, but honestly it offers front of the line to ALL but 4 attractions. Whereas, FP+ allows you to reserve 3 FP+ and then get more.

For my vacation in April, Universal for 3 days with front of the line and park hopping is less expensive than my 3 day no park hopper at WDW and I'm not staying at a Universal deluxe resort.

 

[estherhead]

I'm surprised at the dislike of the magic band/fastpass+ system as just went on a trip the weekend before christmas and crowds were picking up pretty heavy yet thanks to the system by far one of thebest trips i have had to the world, and i was stressing and freaking out trying to plan and get there.

some differences i noticed from your case is y'all park hop, i have personally never park hopped honestly see it as such a waste. you can't get done with on park in a day why try two?

we went to the Magic kingdom Saturday dec 20th and with the fast pass+ system we were able to do about 11-12 attractions and we didn't get to the park till about 2pm honestly i think the system helps give everyone a more fair chance at getting to ride some stuff

sorry they didnt enjoy the trip, still a little baffled as to why but agree the high peak season may be a factor

We did ALL FOUR parks on that day. It was awesome. We spontaneously decided to do our own four park challenge, nothing like the official one since we had thoroughly done all the parks and just wanted to do our highlights or things we hadn't accomplished yet. We did Expedition Everest, Dinosaur, Tower of Terror, Rockin' Roller Coaster, got my daughter's face painted, ate lunch in China at Epcot and watched a show, Space Mt, Seven Dwarves, & Met Anna and Elsa (those three were our FP+) all by 3:00 p.m.

I then went to a delightful dinner at Cape May and back to the resort. My teenagers went to bed from 7:00-10:00 pm and then went to MK until 3:00 am and rode pretty much everything (not 7 Dwarves since they had already done it) in the park, many multiples.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

If Disney is doing something that their even a significant portion of their most loyal return guests no longer enjoy returning, or are told they shouldn't go as often because Disney somehow becomes off-putting or they enjoy their vacations less ...

DISNEY is doing something wrong, not the people who go there.

Especially not the people who used to go quite frequently, but due to a major change in WDW systems are no longer enjoying their stay as much.

I completely agree. We've gone for years during peak times for extended stays and this past year and we did much less. NOTICEABLY less with a hurry up and wait with a jerky kinda feel to the park. No flow. Granted each day had a crowd level of no less than 8.

But those are DISNEY's changes not something I did differently and of course there is now wrong way to enjoy the parks.

Until we can go again during less crowded times we won't be back.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

It's not Disney's fault people don't plan better.

Don't you find yourself planning even more now?

How the heck do you fit in waterparks? If you can give me your secret knowledge on the weather for 2 out of 10 day's in Florida that would be awesome.

We always planned an A park or a B park depending on the weather. I now need to pick a park and hope to heck that the 2 good weather days are not both my AK days because then I have to decide between seeing AK at all or limiting my waterpark days to just 1.

 

[tiggerdad]

I tried to stack all the fast passes in the morning, but due to this week at WDW, there was no way to move the fast passes around, especially for the popular rides (7 dwarfs, test track, ect.) I even took some throw away fast passes (i.e. Nemo) at 8 am, to get things stacked in the morning. I tried for 6 months to move the times around, it was impossible. One of the draw backs with coming between Christmas and New Years.

I'm thinking things are a little exaggerated here...how exactly did you book FPs 6 months in advance when everyone else staying on Disney property can only book 2 months in advance?

 

[MaryKatesMom]

As someone who has invested hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars "learning the ropes" and becoming a "Disney expert", I feel your pain. However, while history has shown that socialism rarely works, (I won't say "never"), here, it probably will work. Not necessarily for the proletariat. But for Big Brother. Disney doesn't want anyone heading back to MCO lamenting the fact that they never got to ride (fill in the blank with headliner of your choice). That breeds discontent and bitterness which could dissuade people from return visits. They are banking that despite all the angst among the Disney veterans, few will make good on their threats never to return. But the first-time visitor who had a lousy time is a customer who is likely lost forever.

I'm not sure 1 FP that they enjoyed will be sufficient to flip a first time visitor to long time repeat visitors.

I've helped many families plan first and only trips to WDW and on their lists of reasons why they won't go back I've never heard "I didn't get to ride X".

Reason's are:
1) It was too crowded - which will always get a condescending "It is WDW what did you expect" from some vets.

2) too expensive

3) long lines

4) overwhelming

So my guess Disney took the only thing they could control or change and hyped it as something wonderful for first timers.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I'm thinking things are a little exaggerated here...how exactly did you book FPs 6 months in advance when everyone else staying on Disney property can only book 2 months in advance?

Probably a miss statement.

However, every time some one say their experience has been "I can't move my times or there was nothing available". There is always a poster who will log on and say "That's not true." I just logged on a a got a party of one on 7DMT for any time today. Of course it is a crowd level of 1 and a party of one so the "evidence" that people are exaggerating is itself an exaggeration.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm not sure 1 FP that they enjoyed will be sufficient to flip a first time visitor to long time repeat visitors.

I've helped many families plan first and only trips to WDW and on their lists of reasons why they won't go back I've never heard "I didn't get to ride X".

Reason's are:
1) It was too crowded - which will always get a condescending "It is WDW what did you expect" from some vets.

2) too expensive

3) long lines

4) overwhelming

So my guess Disney took the only thing they could control or change and hyped it as something wonderful for first timers.

In a lot of ways, #1 + #3 = what I was referring to. Missing a ride and waiting 110 minutes for it will breed the same level of discontent.

 

[disneyseniors]

Probably a miss statement.

However, every time some one say their experience has been "I can't move my times or there was nothing available". There is always a poster who will log on and say "That's not true." I just logged on a a got a party of one on 7DMT for any time today. Of course it is a crowd level of 1 and a party of one so the "evidence" that people are exaggerating is itself an exaggeration.

in here and didn't know where I've been reading these posts and just had to chime in on my truths.
I was very upset, apprehensive, etc, about fp+ before going on our trip to WDW just from reading about it and imagining all the problems! I thought it was stupid to try to book rides so far in advance; how do you know what you will want to ride and when?????? So, with much trepidation, when my open period came up to book fp+'s, I was amazed at just how easy it was.
What happened to all the problems, etc. I signed on and booked each day. Sure, I got rotten times, etc, but I just went back in and changed them to the correct times and rides! There was not a problem doing that at all. I got all the times I wanted! However, if I hadn't read how to do that on this site, I would have been frustrated! As for how would I know what I wanted to ride when????? I realized I DID know, because we always pick a park for a certain day checking EMH's, events, crowd calenders, etc anyway, even before fp's. So our days were pretty much set, as always. I know our touring type, so I plugged in the ride we absolutely wanted not to miss, and kept the others just in case.
Next, the actual fp+ experience for the first time. We found that we actually liked the fp+ system; it worked for us. We do RD, then used our morning fps for the rest, if we wanted to. We always go back to the resort and rest midmorning and then go to another park for pm. We just rode what we wanted to at the evening park, and had no problem. We didn't go for the headliners, and were willing to wait in lines. By the way, line waiting is not a new concept. It's always been that way; go to Disney, wait in line, ride the ride. It's true that we could not repeat some of the rides at that time of day, but that didn't affect us as much.
So, in the great fp+ debate: My advise,experience it yourself before deciding to hate it (like I did). I find it works okay for us. Yes, some of the standby lines are longer, but decide if you want to wait or not. We only have a few must to rides for all the parks included, so this was not a problem for. We like to wander, enjoy the magic of WDW, and do what we want to. You can still do rd, use the fp's, and experience all that is disney
I know it's not the same and it is difficult for many, but I think that Disney will see these problems and work something out in the future. I guess I sympathize with both sides, but found that FOR US, it worked out!