Kidcot CMs at American Pavillion

[Dan Murphy]

I have not read the various replies, but I do recall several times where, at the American Theater, for, I think various concerts (Flower Power probably), they would have a whole group of international CM's from a single country, let's say Canada, do crowd control, etc for one performance, then, an hour or so later, for the next performance, have another country, let's say Italy, represented. I thought that was sort of neat.

 

[livndisney]

It is taking me a lot of self control to reply here, and I really debated if I should or not. My apologies in advance to our moderator.

I am frankly stunned to read this. I have read many xenophobic things on the internet in past, and have chosen to no longer participate in some forums here based on some of the comments, but as a German this one just stuns me.

It may surprise you to hear that there is no 'traditional' German look. The stereotype of blonde hair and blue eyes is a very small minority (and I do not have blue eyes myself)

Furthermore, there is a large diversity of cultures in Germany. Many Germans originally came from Vietnam to work in East Germany and when the wall came down many wanted to stay in Germany, along with the millions of others who endured that regime. I know many Germans of Asian descent who only speak German and English.

As someone who travels the world and has been able to learn about various cultures and traditions around the world, I am disappointed to read something like this. The desire to have a 'traditional German look' is something many of us consider to have caused a very dark period in our history, and I would have hoped that society would have progressed somewhat since that point.

Again, my apologies to our moderator if I have been out of line (ironically, the non-American moderator who has a Middle Eastern Disney character as his avatar )

I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Your words were MUCH nicer than what I want to write.

My daughter is Asian, but she is VERY much an American. She dances at Native American pow wows. She eats German food when we visit family. She has an Irish Great Grandmother and a Welsh name. Oh and she loves British comedies LOL. Where would you have her work?

 

[TotalSnowWhite]

I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Your words were MUCH nicer than what I want to write.

My daughter is Asian, but she is VERY much an American. She dances at Native American pow wows. She eats German food when we visit family. She has an Irish Great Grandmother and a Welsh name. Oh and she loves British comedies LOL. Where would you have her work?

Well, she shouldn't work at the American Kidcot!! Haha!! I'm only teasing!! Don't be offended, OP (or anyone else!!)

I'm half Native and half Samoan. Can half of me work at the Poly and the other half at the American Kidcot station?

 

[bumbershoot]

Bavaria..

...I had to tell the girl working there three times how to spell Lauren. Not exactly a hard name -but she couldn't understand "r".

You're from South Carolina, yes? When I lived in Spartanburg, I had to repeatedly ask people to repeat themselves for the first few months. Who knew "oil" could be said in SO many ways???? Waiting at the Little Cricket, hearing a man talking about buying "earl", I was mystified until he said "motor" before it (even the clerk was having problems with it). And other ways of saying it as well.

And what was scary is that I'm actually quite good with accents, both understanding them and "doing" them (I can't do New Zealand or South African).

I can just understand why it may be confusing for a Chinese looking person to be at the American pavilion. A lot of little kids may question that. Older kids can understand that Chinese people are Americans too. However, my littles ones don't quite grasp that concept yet.

I'm sorry your kids got confused. It is odd, though, unless they have a preconceived notion of what people look like from different countries. My son takes it in stride that his grandmother is American who came from Korea and speaks Korean with her friends (and speaks Konglish with her children). Though he was a little confused about American and Vegetarian, b/c for awhile he was saying "I don't eat meat, I'm American".

And who is to say that this AA Cast Member is not from the United States? She could be a citizen. Just because her nametag says China doesn't mean she can't live in Florida now. I am a Cast Member and my name tag says "California" but I am currently living in Florida. There is no reason to think that this person is not from the United States.

So yes, Cast Members are supposed to be from those countries, but for all we know she could be a U.S Citizen from another country.

Yup. MIL is American. But from Korea. She's lived here since about '71, and doesn't speak fluent English, and barely writes it. She has a cheat sheet of how to write certain things, which she keeps in her checkbook, b/c that's the time she usually has to write things (when writing checks). I'm sure she has our son's name on there, to remind her of how to spell it.


Now, would my MIL be a good choice to write names down at Kidcot? No. But just b/c someone is "from" another country doesn't mean they aren't now American, and just b/c someone needs to ask for clarification on letters when talking to someone who is from an area that tends to have an accent other than how a dictionary tells us to say things (my hubby is from western WA and he says "pin" for "pen" and "pellow" for "pillow" b/c his suburb of birth says things that way, LOL), doesn't mean they shouldn't work in a place.


And lastly, since you mentioned it was the letter R giving her troubles, it's not the understanding of R that typically gives Asian-speakers problems, it's the SAYING of R vs L, b/c there IS no L in the Asian languages I'm familiar with. Just like we would fumble with the "click" language from an African country whose name escapes me right now, a born Asian-language speaker will tend to fumble with the sounds that aren't in their alphabet. But it's not the hearing and understanding of that which causes the problems...

 

[CanadianGuy]

In reading this thread.. one thought kept recurring in my head...

"What does a traditional Canadian look like?"

I just watched Canada Day festivities broadcast from coast to coast and then news recaps of Canada Day celebrations from Halifax to Vancouver.

If what I just watched is any indication, a 'traditional' Canadian, looks like ... well ANYONE of ANY ethnicity who says they live in and appreciate Canada for being their "home".

The same could be said of America, or Germany... or yes, even China.

So.. for Bavaria - you need not apologize to me in anyway. I completely concur with your observations. I think they were well placed and timed.

There may be a 'stereotypical' look to some countries historically speaking .. but stereotypes are SOOOO 1974.. The 'traditional' look for most countries in the world these days is very simply.. multicultural.

Knox

 

[PrincessTiffany]

I don't think you're out of line at all. From the way you are taking my posts, it's understandable. I haven't worded myself in the best way, I really can't word anything correctly because it's massively over analyzed on this board. Nowhere did I say a blonde haired, blue eyed person. I really didn't mean for it to be as big of a deal as what it's been made out to be. All I was trying to say was that a Chinese person at the American pavilion would confuse my kids. That's very understandable, IMO. Then I tried to elaborate a bit, but clearly didn't do a good job because you all think I want a blonde haired blue eyes person there. I guess I can't explain my thoughts well, but I didn't mean for it to be what this thread has turned into. My apologies. Maybe someone out there gets what I was trying to say. Maybe not. But rest assured that I don't have anything against any people from any country. You all can keep questioning me all you want, since that's what this thread has turned into, but I don't know how to convey my thoughts in a way that isn't going to be over analyzed. Once again, my apologies, there's nothing more I can or am going to say here.

I thought of an example. We have this Japanese restaurant near our house that we go to often, it's very authentic. I enjoy going there for the ambiance mostly. I've been there more times than I can count and have always had a Japanese guy (or what appeared to me to be a Japanese guy) cook at our table. They'd have a unique Japanese sounding name. When you look around, it's always the same at all the tables. Then one night I went and when our chef came to our table and I was surprised. It was a white guy named Bernie. Now I have nothing against white guys, being white myself, but I admit I thought it was a little strange. That's kinda what I'm talking about, maybe it helps get the point across, maybe not. I'm the queen of putting my foot in my mouth and not being able to express my thoughts the way I'd like, IRL and online!

Kadesha, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I think you should stop trying to "explain" yourself and your previous posts. You just seem to be digging the perverbial hole. I truly believe you do not mean to be offensive, but it is just coming off that way.

 

[donnajon]

My main point in starting this thread was that the CM was from China and I thought she should be from America. I didn't care that she appeared Asian. I could tell from both her name tag and her accent she was from China. And it wasn't that busy or that loud when we were there. I didn't think she needed to look a certain way. I just thought she should be from the county she was working at the kidcot station. I think it would be odd to have someone from America working at the Chinese kidcot station. Now if it were someone who had American parents but was actually from China, fine. Part of the fun of the kidcot stations was the interactions my kids had with the native CMs. DD5 couldn't wait to get to Germany to sing a German song she had learned at preschool. Turns out all of the people knew the song and she sang it for a lot of the CMs. My DD8 wanted to sing a Chinese song she had learned in school for the Chinese kidcot workers. That was what they were looking forward to. Talking with the people about their countries that they were from. DD11 had to do a report in his ancesters and they are from Italy. So when we went in December, he spent time in Italy talking with the Italians learning about his grandmothers' country of origin. It was neat for him to be able to tell his teacher what he learned from the Italians. It wouldn't have had the same effect if someone who was actually from China was working there.

 

[livndisney]

My main point in starting this thread was that the CM was from China and I thought she should be from America. I didn't care that she appeared Asian. I could tell from both her name tag and her accent she was from China. And it wasn't that busy or that loud when we were there. I didn't think she needed to look a certain way. I just thought she should be from the county she was working at the kidcot station. I think it would be odd to have someone from America working at the Chinese kidcot station. Now if it were someone who had American parents but was actually from China, fine. Part of the fun of the kidcot stations was the interactions my kids had with the native CMs. DD5 couldn't wait to get to Germany to sing a German song she had learned at preschool. Turns out all of the people knew the song and she sang it for a lot of the CMs. My DD8 wanted to sing a Chinese song she had learned in school for the Chinese kidcot workers. That was what they were looking forward to. Talking with the people about their countries that they were from. DD11 had to do a report in his ancesters and they are from Italy. So when we went in December, he spent time in Italy talking with the Italians learning about his grandmothers' country of origin. It was neat for him to be able to tell his teacher what he learned from the Italians. It wouldn't have had the same effect if someone who was actually from China was working there.

If you are truly so "concerned" about this, perhaps you should contact Disney and then them know of your ISSUE(as suggested by a mod). Personally I find your post offensive. I don't agree with judging people based on how they appear.

 

[ILVPOOH]

If you are truly so "concerned" about this, perhaps you should contact Disney and then them know of your ISSUE(as suggested by a mod). Personally I find your post offensive. I don't agree with judging people based on how they appear.

The OP said they didn't care that the CM appeared Asian. They just thought that an American should work in the American Kidcot Station. I agree. When visiting the different countries you want to find people from that country there. They don't have to look a certain way, but they should be from that country.

 

[bavaria]

My main point in starting this thread was that the CM was from China and I thought she should be from America. I didn't care that she appeared Asian. I could tell from both her name tag and her accent she was from China. ...

Now if it were someone who had American parents but was actually from China, fine.

Did you ask to see her passport? Her accent certainly doesn't preclude her from having emigrated to America. The citizenship test does not require an accent reduction course.

My English is perfect, but over the years I have met many Americans with an accent. Many of them were born in the US.

I am baffled by the continued posts attempting to defend this subject. Like PrincessTiffany, I suggest that you and kadesha consider if you wish to continue to debate the subject, as it is apparent that you don't realize how offensive your posts continue to be.

Many immigrants are proud and excited to be living in America, and I am certain that if they or those working at the World Showcase read this thread they would be disappointed to see what Americans think about diversity.

 

[bavaria]

To give yet one more example for those who cannot understand why some of us are upset by these posts -

There is an older woman who worked at the German pavilion for many years. She grew up in my father's neighbourhood, emigrated to America and is now an American citizen. As with many older Americans, she took a part time job at WDW after retirement.

Her English is very good, albeit it heavily accented. She has a very German name, and her nametag has a German flag. She works in the German pavilion.

Her citizenship however is American. Should she be fired, or relocated to another role, simply because her citizenship does not match her country of origin?

 

[dgaston]

While I understand the OP wanted her children's names spelled correctly on their Kidcot materials, I am totally amazed at what seems to be the lack of understanding of the melting pot aspect of the US and multiculturalism for many nations today.

 

[kadesha]

While I understand the OP wanted her children's names spelled correctly on their Kidcot materials, I am totally amazed at what seems to be the lack of understanding of the melting pot aspect of the US and multiculturalism for many nations today.

By reading several posts, I'm under the impression that many of you feel like I'm mainly talking about the American pavilion, and I am not. And the whole thing isn't some world-ending thing for me. My restaurant example is the best I can do. I shrugged and found it odd, I wasn't being intolerant! But you all should know that I am not a huge world showcase person. The only time I have ever walked around world showcase was during evening EMH's when none of the pavilions were really open. We only got to do the Kidcot in about 2 of them and ride the boat ride in Mexico. Some questions to help me understand--are the people working at the pavilions supposed to be able to speak the language of the country represented? And they are supposed to dress in a way that represents that country, is that correct? If both of those answers are yes and a person is able to accurately do these things, then it's not a big deal. If those 2 things are expected in world showcase and an American that isn't capable of doing those things is working in the China pavilion, yeah I'm going to find that odd. That doesn't mean I'm intolerant or hateful, but I may stop a second and wonder about it, then move on. I put a lot of thought into this last night and realized that I didn't really know what was expected at world showcase as far as language and attire.

If this post offends anyone (I'm sure it probably will someone) please instead of bashing me, help me understand. In the beginning of this thread, I was only thinking general appearance, I wasn't thinking of the language and attire. I get why some are offended at this point, even thought I'm not meaning it in the way that it's being taken. As I said, I've never been articulate with my words.

 

[disneyjunkie]

By reading several posts, I'm under the impression that many of you feel like I'm mainly talking about the American pavilion, and I am not. And the whole thing isn't some world-ending thing for me. My restaurant example is the best I can do. I shrugged and found it odd, I wasn't being intolerant! But you all should know that I am not a huge world showcase person. The only time I have ever walked around world showcase was during evening EMH's when none of the pavilions were really open. We only got to do the Kidcot in about 2 of them and ride the boat ride in Mexico. Some questions to help me understand--are the people working at the pavilions supposed to be able to speak the language of the country represented? And they are supposed to dress in a way that represents that country, is that correct? If both of those answers are yes and a person is able to accurately do these things, then it's not a big deal. If those 2 things are expected in world showcase and an American that isn't capable of doing those things is working in the China pavilion, yeah I'm going to find that odd. That doesn't mean I'm intolerant or hateful, but I may stop a second and wonder about it, then move on. I put a lot of thought into this last night and realized that I didn't really know what was expected at world showcase as far as language and attire.

If this post offends anyone (I'm sure it probably will someone) please instead of bashing me, help me understand. In the beginning of this thread, I was only thinking general appearance, I wasn't thinking of the language and attire. I get why some are offended at this point, even thought I'm not meaning it in the way that it's being taken. As I said, I've never been articulate with my words.

Language and attire aside, what general appearance do you think someone working in the American pavilion should have?

 

[bavaria]

kadesha, I do believe that you are sincere. However, I also believe that you may be very insulated, or may not know much about world geography and culture.

You spoke of a 'traditional look'. That seems as though you would exclude those of North African descent from working in France, Vietnamese descent of working in Germany, Middle Eastern descent working in the UK, etc. There is no such thing as the 'traditional look' of which you spoke. Most countries represented in World Showcase have some form of cultural and ethnic diversity. I gave you the example earlier of the over 50 ethnic groups in China. You may think of a 'Chinese person' as the Han chinese, and a Mongol chinese may not fit your image of 'Chinese person'.

I realize that not everyone has the ability to travel the world and learn about other cultures, but certainly the concept of a 'traditional look' is an outdated one. Again, look at what happened in the 1930s when there was a desire by some for a 'traditional German look' (which has been proven does not exist)

I am saddened that what could have been a wonderful learning experience for children has been turned instead into something so ugly.

 

[kadesha]

kadesha, I do believe that you are sincere. However, I also believe that you may be very insulated, or may not know much about world geography and culture.

You spoke of a 'traditional look'. That seems as though you would exclude those of North African descent from working in France, Vietnamese descent of working in Germany, Middle Eastern descent working in the UK, etc. There is no such thing as the 'traditional look' of which you spoke. Most countries represented in World Showcase have some form of cultural and ethnic diversity. I gave you the example earlier of the over 50 ethnic groups in China. You may think of a 'Chinese person' as the Han chinese, and a Mongol chinese may not fit your image of 'Chinese person'.

I realize that not everyone has the ability to travel the world and learn about other cultures, but certainly the concept of a 'traditional look' is an outdated one. Again, look at what happened in the 1930s when there was a desire by some for a 'traditional German look' (which has been proven does not exist)

I am saddened that what could have been a wonderful learning experience for children has been turned instead into something so ugly.

Worry not, for we haven't done much of world showcase yet. We plan on doing it for a whole day for our upcoming trip though.

You are correct in the assumption that I don't know much about geography or culture. I've only even been in 5 states, all surrounding my own. I am big enough to admit that I'm pretty ignorant about it all. Which is why we didn't pay much attention to world showcase last year because I have no real knowledge of it so I didn't really care. So in my head I guess I do have some sort of "traditional" look. (and that doesn't really mean a certain color hair or eyes more like a general look) I am excited to try it this year because many threads here have really intrigued me! Regardless of all the bashing I've taken in this thread, I do appreciate it because it really opened my eyes.

 

[bavaria]

kadesha, I did receive your PM and I do appreciate the sentiment.

 

[WDSearcher]

To the OP -- The explanation is probably a very very simple one. Like ... someone at the American Adventure pavilion called in sick that day and they had to have another CM cover the shift, and China had an extra Kidcot person that day, so they popped over to the AA pavilion to assist. Unless you went back several days in a row and saw the same Chinese CM, it was likely a very isolated thing and was just an odd luck-of-the-draw for you.

 

[livndisney]

By reading several posts, I'm under the impression that many of you feel like I'm mainly talking about the American pavilion, and I am not. And the whole thing isn't some world-ending thing for me. My restaurant example is the best I can do. I shrugged and found it odd, I wasn't being intolerant! But you all should know that I am not a huge world showcase person. The only time I have ever walked around world showcase was during evening EMH's when none of the pavilions were really open. We only got to do the Kidcot in about 2 of them and ride the boat ride in Mexico. Some questions to help me understand--are the people working at the pavilions supposed to be able to speak the language of the country represented? And they are supposed to dress in a way that represents that country, is that correct? If both of those answers are yes and a person is able to accurately do these things, then it's not a big deal. If those 2 things are expected in world showcase and an American that isn't capable of doing those things is working in the China pavilion, yeah I'm going to find that odd. That doesn't mean I'm intolerant or hateful, but I may stop a second and wonder about it, then move on. I put a lot of thought into this last night and realized that I didn't really know what was expected at world showcase as far as language and attire.

If this post offends anyone (I'm sure it probably will someone) please instead of bashing me, help me understand. In the beginning of this thread, I was only thinking general appearance, I wasn't thinking of the language and attire. I get why some are offended at this point, even thought I'm not meaning it in the way that it's being taken. As I said, I've never been articulate with my words.

Since I believe you are trying to understand and not make judgements, I will try to explain. A friend of mine was born in the US to Chinese parents. She looks Chinese, her given name is Chinese, she speaks Chinese (she has a little trouble saying some English words) and English, she works in America as she is an American. (Has never been out of the country). You would offend her if you asked her why she was not working in China-she has never been there and has no wish to go.
As far as the clothing, those are costumes issued by Disney.

Perhaps in your example, The cook you mentioned was the best qualified employee. I give Kudos to the Employer for going beyond the usual stereotype and hiring the best employee.

I think a lot of people need to get over "stereotypes". My friend has a blond hair blued eyed Chinese daughter. I cannot tell you the hateful things people have said just because she is not what THEY expect.

Bavaria, you are my new best friend! I am not sure most people even realize there are different Chinese ethnic groups. I had a co worker who insisted on calling all Asian people "Oriental, you know like a rug?"

 

[kadesha]

Since I believe you are trying to understand and not make judgements, I will try to explain. A friend of mine was born in the US to Chinese parents. She looks Chinese, her given name is Chinese, she speaks Chinese (she has a little trouble saying some English words) and English, she works in America as she is an American. (Has never been out of the country). You would offend her if you asked her why she was not working in China-she has never been there and has no wish to go.

As far as the clothing, those are costumes issued by Disney.

I understand. I just had to step back and look at a few members of my own family to figure this out!