Kevin's wheelchair discussion on Email show

[kpadalik]

I'm a little behind in listening to last week's shows, but I just finished the email show and wanted to discuss something I saw at one of the resorts. Now, I am not passing judgment or looking for flames. This is simply something I OBSERVED and I would like to know what everyone's opinions are on this. I am especially interested in hearing what Kevin and/or Pete have to say. If anyone thinks that I am writing this to complain or B**** about people in wheelchairs, then please go to another thread, because that's not what this is about.

In early December, we were standing in line for the MK bus at POP Century. The line was long, one bus had come and gone, and a new bus arrived after about 10 minutes. There was a family in the assistance line - a woman in an ECV, her husband, and her teenage daughter. The bus driver got everything set up and got her secured into the bus. As he was getting ready to raise the ramp, a large family (and when I say large, I counted 13 people in addition to a young teen in a wheelchair) came running up to the assistance line. The bus driver kind of looked at them and then the long line of people waiting to get on the bus and went ahead and let the large family board. The father said they didn't need the ramp. The young girl got out of the wheelchair, climbed the steps, and the father then proceeded to fold the wheelchair like a stroller and climb up into the bus.

Well, a LOT of people were very pissed that this happened . There were quite a few people around me making comments about the situation. I stayed quiet. To me, it seemed very apparent that the family took full advantage of the assistance line especially since the line was so long. However, that is what the assistance line is for - assisting those in wheelchairs. I do not know what this girl's medical condition was and after listening to Kevin speak about the wheelchair issue, I tend to look at it in a whole other light. However, many people vocalized their irritation about the bus driver, the family, etc. The people right behind me never should have said a thing because they were going to be able to get on the bus anyway. However, I think the people towards the back of the line were irritated because they were going to have to wait yet again for another bus.

What does everyone think about this situation? Was the bus driver wrong in allowing this family to board? Once again, I am only looking for everyone's thoughts.

 

[DisneyKevin]

No flames....

I think no one except the family knows the reason and / or need for the wheelchair.

Could it be arthritis? Could it be a degenerative disease? Could it be a heart defect? Could what you saw be a young person trying be as "normal" as possible?

I'm guessing that the wheelchair belonged to the family as it folded and the father knew how to do it. These are not inexpensive items and not easy to tote around.

Would it be worth it to you (the general you and not the particular you) to transport, push, fold, carry, unfold and store a wheelchair in order to beat the line to take the bus?

Again....no flames....but ask yourself if you know the answers to the questions I've asked. If the answer is that you dont know the answer.....then I always suggest that you (again...the general you) assume that it's a necessity and thank God that you and yours have the ability to wait in line.

Thats my opinion.

 

[kpadalik]

Kevin,

Thanks for your opinion! I totally see your points and I agree. I personally didn't have a problem with what happened...to each their own and it's nobody's business, right? Even when I said it looked like the family took advantage of the assistance line, I didn't mean it to come across as rude. I would never in a million years want to have to push a wheelchair through the parks, nevertheless my own child.

Again, I only wanted to see what people's views on this were. That's all! By the way, hope you are doing better and that your procedure went well!

 

[DisneyKevin]

Thank you for the well wishes.

I completely understand why you asked and I wanted to share my opinion.

It wasn;t meant to judge or slam anyone.

It was really meant to let folks know that unless you know someone's story....you just dont know.

Was just meant to make people think.

Thank you again for the good wishes.

My surgery happens tomorrow morning and I'm doing everything possible to keep occupied. I dont usually go to bed until very late and now I have to be up very early.

The two dont mix well.

 

[kpadalik]

Oops, sorry, thought you already had your surgery! Well, sending good thoughts your way and will be thinking of you tomorrow. Sleep well... As for keeping occupied, I'm sure you won't have a problem here on the boards!

 

[Halloweenqueen]

Need to say this...I'm a HUGE Unplugged fan. I am 100% supportive of anyone who needs an ECV/Wheelchair. I've had a series of health scares through the years that have made me wheelchair or walker bound.

I have to say though that I found Pete's rant rather shocking. I know it is a case of a couple of bad apples spoiling the bunch, but we have seen a tremonous increase of ECV/wheelchair use the last few trips. I don't know why this is. I think this is why it has been debated on the other boards.

Debate is good. I think it can change people's thoughts. The Podcast has done a fantastic service in opening the debate.

I hate when people are flamed for asking questions (in post or podcast). Yes, there are a lot of idiots posting ignorant comments, but the vast majority of people were just discussing something that many people have witnessed.


I know it would be much easier for me to get around the park on wheels. Yet, my family goes at a slower pace and I take breaks throughout the day. I think some people, in an effort to "get their money's worth" use ECVs to get around quicker.

Please...no flames...but I recall a story on the Podcast were Kevin explains he is about to take a WDW tour with Bob. Kevin is concerned that there is a lot of walking so Bob suggests taking his extra ECV. They soon find out that there isn't a lot of walking and have their ECVs stored under the bus. Later Kevin is thrown over the handlebars of the ECV because he doesn't know the operation of the vehicle and it comes to a complete stop rather than slowdown.

To say no one would use one if they didn't have to just doesn't fit this scenario. Imagine if Kevin had used the ECV during the tour. Kevin could have had the misfortune of not only hurting himself, but someone else in the walkway when he fell forward.


I bring this up to say there is a fine line in using one for necessity and one for convenience.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I have a knee issue and was not sure I could walk for 8 straight hours.

Bob's scooter was not assembled correctly. He left a piece out in order to make it easier to disassemble.

Had I used the ECV....it would have been out of necessity at that time.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

I have a knee issue and was not sure I could walk for 8 straight hours.

Bob's scooter was not assembled correctly. He left a piece out in order to make it easier to disassemble.

Had I used the ECV....it would have been out of necessity at that time.

Yes, I remember the missing piece now. Something about not regulating the speed, right?

 

[UrsulasShadow]

Please...no flames...but I recall a story on the Podcast were Kevin explains he is about to take a WDW tour with Bob. Kevin is concerned that there is a lot of walking so Bob suggests taking his extra ECV. They soon find out that there isn't a lot of walking and have their ECVs stored under the bus. Later Kevin is thrown over the handlebars of the ECV because he doesn't know the operation of the vehicle and it comes to a complete stop rather than slowdown.

To say no one would use one if they didn't have to just doesn't fit this scenerio. Imagine if Kevin had used the ECV during the tour. Kevin could have had the misfortune of not only hurting himself, but someone else in the walkway when he fell forward.


I bring this up to say there is a fine line in using one for necessity and one for convenience.

Not flaming here, but if there had been a lot of walking on the tour, the ECV would have been necessary. As it turned out, there wasn't a lot of walking. Only Kevin could judge the necessity at that point. It fits the scenario just fine.

 

[SamSam]

I may be wrong but I didn't think the OP was questioning the need for a wheelchair but questioning the fact that the family (large family) came running up at the last minute, when many people had been waiting for however long, and they were allowed to board causing people who had already been waiting in line to wait for another bus. I may have misinterpreted but that's how I read it.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

Then I opened my big mouth....

I phrased my statement wrong. First I should have went back and tried to find the story, not post by memory.

Bob's scooter story was a funny one that my family discussed. I don't "know" Kevin, but I feel like I do through the hours I've spent with the Podcast crew. I've never heard of his knee injury before.

I know someone would say this is a perfect example of judging without knowing, but it's like a "friend" telling you they have a health condition for the first time. I've never heard Kevin need assistance before or since that story.

I know Kevin often talks about pushing his mother in a wheelchair. Having never met Kevin, I just assumed he was twenty-five and cut like Hugh Jackman. lol

I never would have posted about it, but Pete's statement that he hoped that people who question anyone with an ECV would end up in wheelchairs themselves. That was pretty brutal.

I'll stop now. I've done enough damage for one night.

Pixiedust to Kevin. I hope things go smoothly tomorrow and they give you lots of wonderful painkillers.

 

[kpadalik]

I may be wrong but I didn't think the OP was questioning the need for a wheelchair but questioning the fact that the family (large family) came running up at the last minute, when many people had been waiting for however long, and they were allowed to board causing people who had already been waiting in line to wait for another bus. I may have misinterpreted but that's how I read it.

Samsam,

You are exactly right. I just wanted to see how other people would react if they were in the same position (as either the bus driver, the people in line, or the people w/ the young girl). That's all. I never question whether anyone NEEDS a wheelchair. That is up to the individual. Thank you!

 

[MkyMws]

We as a family are in this situation (not the family of 13), but...

My daughter now 13 suffers from arthritis. She was diagnosed at 20 months of age, and has gone through years of joint injections, 3 eye surgeries, weekly medication injections, countless eye drops & monthly hospital treatments.

We manage to get to Disney every 2-3 years. Fortunately we are able to save up the money.

We rent a wheelchair for the 10 days we are at Disney. Not to be able to move to the start of the line, but to make sure that my daughter & the rest of the family can enjoy our trip.

She could walk (& when we are doing short trips she does), but too much walking one day will lead to pain & discomfort for the next day or two.

I'm sure that people look at her (and probably give us dirty looks) when she gets up out of the wheelchair & walks into the bus, or onto a ride...but I think she has suffered enough over the last 11 years that she deserves to be treated special every once and awhile.

We are very fortunate that she isn't in a wheelchair all of time. We are fortunate that she doesn't have it as bad as other people.

If I could take away her pain I would, if I had to carry her around the park I would...what I can do is push her around the parks, and make sure we have a good time.

Dragging a wheelchair around is not my idea of fun.

Disney treats everyone well.

Thanks for listening

tim

 

[kpadalik]

We as a family are in this situation (not the family of 13), but...

My daughter now 13 suffers from arthritis. She was diagnosed at 20 months of age, and has gone through years of joint injections, 3 eye surgeries, weekly medication injections, countless eye drops & monthly hospital treatments.

We manage to get to Disney every 2-3 years. Fortunately we are able to save up the money.

We rent a wheelchair for the 10 days we are at Disney. Not to be able to move to the start of the line, but to make sure that my daughter & the rest of the family can enjoy our trip.

She could walk (& when we are doing short trips she does), but too much walking one day will lead to pain & discomfort for the next day or two.

I'm sure that people look at her (and probably give us dirty looks) when she gets up out of the wheelchair & walks into the bus, or onto a ride...but I think she has suffered enough over the last 11 years that she deserves to be treated special every once and awhile.

We are very fortunate that she isn't in a wheelchair all of time. We are fortunate that she doesn't have it as bad as other people.

If I could take away her pain I would, if I had to carry her around the park I would...what I can do is push her around the parks, and make sure we have a good time.

Dragging a wheelchair around is not my idea of fun.

Disney treats everyone well.

Thanks for listening

tim

 

[beachwarmer]

I also wanted to point out that each bus only holds so many wheelchairs. I have seen the assistance line from the Pop Century have 5 or 6 families waiting for a bus at park openning times. Only two or three of these will fit even if the rest of the bus is empty. The other people needing assistance need to wait for the next bus. This is also an issue when the parks are closing, and I imagine it can happen during the day as well.

I remember seeing a family with three children in wheelchairs. Only two could fit on the one bus because someone was in front of them in a scooter. The rest of the bus was empty and they had to wait for the next bus.

I think we often remember the times when a situation like the original poster mentions but don't look twice when we are sitting on the bus and the 4th wheelchair needs to wait for the next bus.

With this issue now being discussed by the podcast team I hope everyone will start looking at things from the other person's perspective.

 

[Wvugrrrl]

I can definitely see where the OP is coming from. (And did you ever notice it always seems to be the most crowded bus lines at the value resorts that bring this "situation" to light? )

In the past, we've waited in long lines to board a bus, only to get near the front and be thwarted by a wheelchair/ECV family come running up to the separate boarding spot at the last minute. And before I get flamed, I just want to clarify what I think a lot of people feel - I personally don't care why anyone's in a chair - that's your business. But it's definitely frustrating to have to wait through several busses because there's at least 10 people boarding each time along with their chair-bound passenger.

That having been said, I have seen bus drivers only load one or two chair guests, and asked others to wait for the next bus; I've also seen the reverse - persons in wheelchairs and ECVs have their family members wait in the bus line, and then ask that the bus driver not load them until everyone can be loaded together. I've also seen families send one or 2 people with the chair-bound guest, while they make plans to meet up when they all arrive at the park.

I think when you do see a mad dash to the front of the bus line, it becomes easy to blame the "differently-abled" without knowing what their specific disability is; and like all stereotypes, a repetition of this action, as your vacation goes on (and you become more hot, more cranky, more tired of waiting in lines, etc ) just reinforces that negative thought in your head, until you go home spewing narrow generalizations like, "All people in ECV's are lazy."

I have to say though that I found Pete's rant rather shocking. I know it is a case of a couple of bad apples spoiling the bunch, but we have seen a tremonous increase of ECV/wheelchair use the last few trips. I don't know why this is. I think this is why it has been debated on the other boards.

I was also a little taken aback at the ferocity of Pete's rant (especially when I am usually & at Pete for saying what I'm thinking).

I also agree with you that we've seen a big increase in ECV use at Disney (although I personally think there's been a wheelchair decrease, due to the ECV-usage increase... ), but I tend to think this has less to do with people simply thinking that they can get away with "riding around all day in the parks instead of walking" and much more likely related to the fact that Disney truly is so accommodating for those who have different transportation needs. They've made great strides in the years widening queues, and making necessary updates to their rides in order to better load/offload. And that is one of the great things about Disney - no matter what your station in life, (almost) everyone is treated equally to the best possible experience.

The good news is, by the Podcast team bringing light to this sometimes "controversial" topic, if you're ever in a position where you, or someone you love needs to be in a wheelchair/ECV, you'll be much more sympathetic to the plight of the people waiting in line, and vice/versa!

 

[SueM in MN]

There are 2 tiedown spots on each bus where a wheelchair or ECV can be parked and safely fastened down to the bus. The only way that more than 2 wheelchairs or ECVs can be put onto the bus is if someone has a wheelchair that can be folded. Then they can carry it on and hold it like the family in the OP's question did.
Some people, like my DD, are not able to get out of their wheelchair, so we need one of those 2 spots on the bus or we can't ride. My DD can't walk at all, but many people are using wheelchairs for endurance or pain issues and are able to walk, just not long distances.
Some people who can get out of the wheelchair choose to carry the wheelchair on because:

1. it saves the tiedown spots for people who need to ride in their wheelchair
2. it's faster so the other guests won't have to wait while the wheelchair is being tied down
3. they prefer not to ride in the wheelchair on the bus
4. it's easier and faster when they get out

It's faster and safer to load wheelchairs and ECVs first because there is more room for manouvering and more room for the driver to move around to fasten the straps that hold the wheelchair or ECV to the bus. So, it may not seem 'fair' to some people, but it does make the process faster and makes it less likely that anyone will get their feet run over.

WDW generally considers a 'party' for a wheelchair/ECV to be a total of 6 people (5 plus the person with a disability). We have traveled with as many as 8 people, but when we have that many, we have DD, her dad and grandma board together. The rest of us wait in the line. Even if we had boarded with the wheelchair, we almost always would have gotten a seat.

Probably about 5-10% of the time there is some reason we can't get onto the bus - the lift doesn't work, the tiedowns don't work, so we can't get onto the first bus that comes.
If you think about it, someone who is able to walk onto the bus has the choice to sit on any seat or to stand. Someone with a wheelchair or ECV has only 2 places they can 'sit', so they only have 2 possible 'chances' to get on each bus.

 

[metalis4ever]

I have been reading a lot of similar posts and discussion regarding this subject and each and every time I reminded of the simple fact that perception is not reality but rather just another word for ignorance. I am not accusing anyone in particular or any of the PP's above of ignorance I am just simply stating that the only person who knows for a fact whether one needs assistance from either a wheelchair or ECV is the person sitting in the seat. As I stated in a previous post on a separate discussion regarding this subject I have actually spoken up against the rumblings while waiting in line for the bus back to Pop from Epcot.

I can see where the OP is coming from but at the same time I would rather stand in line for 12 hours then spend one bound to a Wheelchair or even ECV for that matter. Anyway I loved Pete's rant if that's what one would call it.

I found some of the PP above very informative, thanks

 

[billdisneynut]

Don't always agree with your dining reviews but on this one you are spot on.
In 2007 my friend and Disney World companion Deb hurt her ankle and after a day of insisting that she was not going to ride in a wheel chair she decided it was the only way she could go and gave-in.
After pushing her around for 6 days we both agreed that no one would choose to do that if not necessary. We came home with a new respect for those who have no choice. And we met some of the nicest people.
By the way, going downhill is almost as difficult as going up for the pusher or hold it backer in the downhill case.
Disney is amazing with their handicapped visitors.
Bill

 

[Wvugrrrl]

I have been reading a lot of similar posts and discussion regarding this subject and each and every time I reminded of the simple fact that perception is not reality but rather just another word for ignorance.

I really like your quote, and I definitely think it's very fitting for not only this discussion, but just about every other "controversial" topic you can think of!

Also, SueM in MN, that was a really great explanation of how things work on the Disney busses. Thanks for taking the time to give an "insider's" viewpoint.