Kevin's Latest Restaurant Reviews

[FireDancer]

You expect to pay more at Disney but, that's okay if you come away thinking that that you got some value for your hard earned dollars

I agree. I am not excusing bad service or bad (or even mediocre) food. I do expect that a $50 meal at Disney is probably not going to be as good as a $50 meal in most other places. If the value that is lost on the food is replaced by the service, the atmosphere, the theme, the characters I am taking pictures with, or anything else...great. What happens sometimes though, and I get this feeling from some of your reviews, is that the "something else" doesn't always cover the discrepancy between cost and experience. And for that there is no excuse.

I probably should have added something pertaining to that to that paragraph. I didn't want it to come off like I don't expect anything for my premium but it kind of sounds like that after I reread it.

 

[OKW Lover]

I'm good with that.

My reviews...as are all reviews....are opinions.

There are some facts thrown in....prices etc.....but for the most part they are opinions.

Just as you have written reviews.....they are your opinions.

Val & I were listening to this review on the flight back home last night and we were both alternately laughing out loud and shaking our heads. Its almost like listening to one of Pete's rants.

Over time, we've found that we agree with Kevin's opinions about 90% of the time so we place great stock in his reviews. But we make up our own minds.

 

[lugnut33]

Now Kevin, just imagine if you weren't actually paying out of pocket for the meals. While it wouldn't make the food taste any better, the restaurant any quieter, the portions bigger, or the service any better it would allow you to feel better about the meal. You would just chalk it up to, "Meh, what do you want for free". Just like when I head to Uncle Jimmers house and he's serving Milwaukee's Best beer.

And even by pre-paying for the meal you won't be as upset because the DDP detaches you from the the expectation of value for your money. There's a big difference in actually paying $300 for a crappy meal to only paying $58 (the tip) for a crappy meal.

Of course, there is some value in location but bad food is bad food. I don't care where I'm at but lemons and BO are not tasty. However, if it's "free", I can set it aside and move on.

So here's the thing. The DDP really is effecting the quality of the meals within WDW. There's no incentive for restaurants to make quality meals when the plan is treated as a throw-in to get people to come to the parks. And people do come in droves, but there's no expectation from these people to have great meals. Afterall, it's a theme park and it doesn't really feel like we are paying for the meal.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Now Kevin, just imagine if you weren't actually paying out of pocket for the meals. While it wouldn't make the food taste any better, the restaurant any quieter, the portions bigger, or the service any better it would allow you to feel better about the meal. You would just chalk it up to, "Meh, what do you want for free". Just like when I head to Uncle Jimmers house and he's serving Milwaukee's Best beer.

And even by pre-paying for the meal you won't be as upset because the DDP detaches you from the the expectation of value for your money. There's a big difference in actually paying $300 for a crappy meal to only paying $58 (the tip) for a crappy meal.

Of course, there is some value in location but bad food is bad food. I don't care where I'm at but lemons and BO are not tasty. However, if it's "free", I can set it aside and move on.

So here's the thing. The DDP really is effecting the quality of the meals within WDW. There's no incentive for restaurants to make quality meals when the plan is treated as a throw-in to get people to come to the parks. And people do come in droves, but there's no expectation from these people to have great meals. Afterall, it's a theme park and it doesn't really feel like we are paying for the meal.

To me....this is like saying "I'll use my credit card. There's no cash coming out of my pocket. I'm not really paying for it."

We have to agree to disagree on this point.

I explained in al earlier post that there are other costs associated with the dining plan and it's not "free".

And, if you are willing to accept anything Disney throws at you because you believe it's "free"....then you are getting what you deserve.

 

[kbelle8995]

I would rather pay for good food than get crappy food for free. Better yet how about good food for free. Not all of us choose to have the dining plan or can stay long enough to get it for free. So I would like the food at WDW to be good regardless.

You may get the dining plan for free now but believe me it won't stay that way. Disney expects you to put that money elsewhere in their accounts maybe you get a higher priced room or more souvenirs. You can't get something for nothing.

 

[lugnut33]

Kbelle, Kevin, and many other posters on the Dis are smart enough to know that "Free Dining" is not really free. Just like the Buy 4 get 3 free package is sometimes not as good as a room discount. However, the majority going to WDW (as witnessed by the huge crowds) do not know. They see "free" and they are like a deer in headlights. However, that is exactly what Disney wants by advertising stuff for "free".

Once Disney gets the customers to sign up for the "free" program then what better way to earn more money than by giving them the least amount of product and service for their "free" money. The dining plan from 3 years ago is way more expensive for Disney than the dining plan of today, even if the menu prices have skyrocketed.

And the servers are not going to complain about free dining either because their tip is automatic based on the inflated prices of the food. What incentive does a server have to actually take care of the customer when they are getting the huge tip no matter what? Matter of fact, they probably dislike out of pocket customers because it's they (like Kevin) who will demand great service for the money they are paying (and Kevin, you should expect great food and service for what you are paying).

This whole "free dining" and DDP are really leading to disaster if you ask me, but I'm sure the bean counters are happy.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Now Kevin, just imagine if you weren't actually paying out of pocket for the meals. While it wouldn't make the food taste any better, the restaurant any quieter, the portions bigger, or the service any better it would allow you to feel better about the meal. You would just chalk it up to, "Meh, what do you want for free". Just like when I head to Uncle Jimmers house and he's serving Milwaukee's Best beer.

I don't get why or how anyone could think that way. No matter what, you're still paying for that meal, wether on the plan or paying OOP.

And the servers are not going to complain about free dining either because their tip is automatic based on the inflated prices of the food.

Tips are no longer automatic on the dining plan.

 

[lugnut33]

Tips are no longer automatic on the dining plan.

You are correct sir/madam:

Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An automatic 18% gratuity charge will be added to your bill for parties of 6 or more. An automatic gratuity charge may also be added to your bill for items you order that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (for example, alcoholic beverages).

 

[ADP]

Kbelle, Kevin, and many other posters on the Dis are smart enough to know that "Free Dining" is not really free. Just like the Buy 4 get 3 free package is sometimes not as good as a room discount. However, the majority going to WDW (as witnessed by the huge crowds) do not know. They see "free" and they are like a deer in headlights. However, that is exactly what Disney wants by advertising stuff for "free".

I agree with this. There are discounts that aren't really discounts at WDW. You really have to do your homework. You get "free dining" however, you have to pay rack rate for your resort. Why not check to see if the resort discount is better than "free dining" paying rack rate for your room? At times, the resort discount is better than the "free dining" promotion.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Kbelle, Kevin, and many other posters on the Dis are smart enough to know that "Free Dining" is not really free. Just like the Buy 4 get 3 free package is sometimes not as good as a room discount. However, the majority going to WDW (as witnessed by the huge crowds) do not know. They see "free" and they are like a deer in headlights. However, that is exactly what Disney wants by advertising stuff for "free".

Once Disney gets the customers to sign up for the "free" program then what better way to earn more money than by giving them the least amount of product and service for their "free" money. The dining plan from 3 years ago is way more expensive for Disney than the dining plan of today, even if the menu prices have skyrocketed.

And the servers are not going to complain about free dining either because their tip is automatic based on the inflated prices of the food. What incentive does a server have to actually take care of the customer when they are getting the huge tip no matter what? Matter of fact, they probably dislike out of pocket customers because it's they (like Kevin) who will demand great service for the money they are paying (and Kevin, you should expect great food and service for what you are paying).

This whole "free dining" and DDP are really leading to disaster if you ask me, but I'm sure the bean counters are happy.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I am certainly confused by what you are saying.

On one hand you are telling me that you are willing to accept mediocrity (or worse) because for all intents and purposes, the food is "free" on the DDP and who can argue with "free" food.

On the other hand you are telling me that you understand that the DDP is not really free and that you are paying for it in one way or another....but still are willing to accept mediocrity.

I'm really confused by this.

Also....I dont demand anything from anyone. I do expect to get value for what I spend and my job is to tell you whether that happens or not.

When we are doing a restaurant review, it is a business expense and does not come out of my personal pocket. That does not negate the fact that someone is paying. I would think that Kouzinna was dreadful even if you were paying for my meal.

I guess I am surprised by the willingness to forgive Disney for overcharging for mediocre food. Would that translate into any other part of your life? If you bought a flat screen TV that only worked occasionally would you be willing to forgive that because it was on sale?

I guess I must be different. I want my food to be good, I want it to be hot and I want the TV to work every time I turn it on.

Maybe I'm too picky.....who knows.

 

[DisneyDoc5]

Kevin, you are not too picky and I love your reviews. Kouzzina sounds dreadful, I can't believe they wouldn't let you change your order, that's absolutely ridiculous. Even if the food was great, they still need to address the atmosphere issue. DDP is be no means free and anyone who uses it knows that. I am seriously contemplating not using it (we always do) next time and only doing a few favorite ADR's and more counter service. Sometimes I feel like our vacation is a slave to the ADR's. Anyway, keep up the reviews, they are a valuable tool in deciding where to eat and we appreciate your time and palate! Smiles, Erin

 

[lugnut33]

Kevin, you are not too picky and I love your reviews. Kouzzina sounds dreadful, I can't believe they wouldn't let you change your order, that's absolutely ridiculous. Even if the food was great, they still need to address the atmosphere issue. DDP is be no means free and anyone who uses it knows that. I am seriously contemplating not using it (we always do) next time and only doing a few favorite ADR's and more counter service. Sometimes I feel like our vacation is a slave to the ADR's. Anyway, keep up the reviews, they are a valuable tool in deciding where to eat and we appreciate your time and palate! Smiles, Erin

When we went last August we ate all our dinners off-site and only ate a few lunches in the parks at counter service places. The food at the CS places was dreadful for the money being paid. We ate at Sunshine Seasons, Flame Tree, and Pecos Bills (where we got to see a guest change a baby's diapers on two of the backless chairs).

And Kevin, the accepting of mediocrity wasn't about myself (well, the free beer comment was totally true), but really a general comment about why the restaurants at WDW are packed. I can see where the "free" dining plan (or even it being pre-paid) tends to make people less choosy about what is being placed in front of them. I'm not willing to accept bad food and service at high prices and that's why we ate mostly off-site last time. Two years from now (and assuming the menu stays the same) Kouzina will still be packed with people because they will accept the mediocrity that the DDP (free or prepaid) creates.

 

[kbelle8995]

I enjoy Kevin's restaurant reviews and I value his honest.

If there's a Kevin review fan club, I'm defininitly a member.

I think that you should not accept lousy food simply because you are on a meal plan (free or prepaid). You paid for it one way or another. I don't think that free to tourists are like honey to bees.

 

[drakethib]

I would rather pay for good food than get crappy food for free. .

Amen.

As I had posted on another thread the food has gotten beyond bad. People have been saying so for quite a while and I guess I had never paid attention and was just caught in the moment

Someone stated that I was angry because I was a DVC member and they did not get my food for "free". Not the case.

There are a couple of good places at WDW, but they are getting few and far between.

Yes I know I will be paying more for food at WDW and I would not have an issue with that if the food was good. But good lord, someone really has to try hard to screw up the taste of a hamburger and Disney has found a way to do so.

I don't always agree with Kevins reviews but he sure as heck seems to be pretty dead on with them lately.

I do agree with Kevin in if we continue to accept the crap that is being served it is our own fault.

 

[DisneyKevin]

the accepting of mediocrity wasn't about myself (well, the free beer comment was totally true), but really a general comment about why the restaurants at WDW are packed. I can see where the "free" dining plan (or even it being pre-paid) tends to make people less choosy about what is being placed in front of them. I'm not willing to accept bad food and service at high prices and that's why we ate mostly off-site last time. Two years from now (and assuming the menu stays the same) Kouzina will still be packed with people because they will accept the mediocrity that the DDP (free or prepaid) creates.

I think there are other reasons.

I think a vast majority of the guests that visit WDW on any given day dont know that discussions like this take place or that places like the Dis even exist.

If I were to visit a tourist destination that I hadnt previously visited, I would be in the same predicament. I wouldnt know where to eat or what was good. I'd have to either ask a local or play hit or miss.

I believe this is the caee in WDW. I believe the majority of people in any restaurant on Disney property are not repeat guests. They are first time (and maybe only time) guests. I dont believe most Disney restaurants succeed or fail on repeat business, so I think your assessment of Kouzinna in two years is correct.

I also think Disney has done a great job of convincing guests that they dont need to leave Disney property.....especially first time guests. With Magical Express, $14 parking, a marathon hike from complimentary parking, DVC valet being snatched away and a huge array of on property restaurants....Disney is getting exactly what they want. ....a captive audience.

When you have created a captive audience that you probably wont see again (or at least not for a year or two or more) you can dumb down the menu to the lowest common denomimator, charge exorbitant prices and lower your food cost by serving smaller portions of lower quality food.

I realize I am trying to push a boulder up a mountain.....especially when you hear people say that not getting an ADR at Le Cellier will ruin their vacation. In my opinion, Le Cellier is a mediocre steak house that, using the same pricing and portion sizes would not make it if moved outside of the Disney bubble.

With all of that being said.....I still believe it's possible to get a great meal at Disney. I still believe you are paying too much for what you are getting, but I can even forgive that because of the real estate on which you are dining. You are in a resort area and higher prices are to be expected.

Now...armed with that information.....I feel it's my job and duty to tell you where I think you will get the best bang for your buck.

As I have said a bazillion times.....these reviews are my opinions. If the desire is there, you should go and make your own opinions. You might find that you agree with me or you might find that I'm dead wrong and armpit lemon soup is your families new favorite.

Wherever you go and what ever you do......I hope you have a great time doing it.

 

[tmli]

Chris and I were discussing the entire experience again yesterday (I know sad isn't it that we are still talking about it!!!) and what you said Kevin in your last post is bang on.

I had been thinking about our experience at the restaurant and what made it so bad (company excluded of course!). If I go to a restuarant and the food is amazing I make allowances for service and/or environment. Likewise if I go to a restaurant and the food is okay but the service and environment are amazing I make allowances.

In this case neither was close to amazing....mediocre I think would be a compliment. I believe this results in a real bad experience (or in this case review!).

Le Cellier used to be favorite meal on property, last couple of years, that is not the case. I think the quality of food and value for dollar has decreased considerably. As long as people except mediocrity Disney will continue to serve it by the plateful.

We for one have taken a stand (I am not naive enough to think Disney feels it, but I feel better!). We always rent a car, and many of our meals happen off site. Not only are we saving money but we are getting food we enjoy more. We still have a couple of favorites we like onsite, and some that are good enough due to convenience. The money we save by dining offsite, will often more than cover the cost of the rental car and we also enjoy the convenience of our own transportation.

I think the first or in many cases the second time visitors (with some guidance!) can choose restaurants that are going to meet their needs and give them the feeling of value for their money. It's us repeat visitors that will notice the decline in quality and increase in mediocrity!

 

[skunkvette]

I have to post to agree with Kevin's "captive audience theory" since I am in that group whenever I vacation at the World, because I choose to be.

I want to be able to stay close to our dining venues and not have to worry about transportation and related issues as part of our evening plans.

I need to know what the best bang for my vacation dollar is and I will work to find the restaurants that make our vacation special, knowing that I need to work on the playing field as provided by Disney.

And my only voice to Disney regarding the qualtity of my dining experience is by not patroniizing or recommending restaurants that fail to deliver my expected level of quality that adds to our overall vacation experience.

All the reviews (including Kevin's) that I research as provided by the DIS Boards, along with our past personal experiences, guide our planning each trip.

Years ago we had a sad little crab cake issue during our first and only trip to V&A. I made sure to always voice my opinion to anyone who asked, and will not return to that restaurant again, it is the only way I can speak back on inferior quality, just like I will praise the establishments that make it special.

Keep calling them as you see them, Kevin!

 

[stuckinkansas]

"Any beer is good as long as it's free".

I sell beer, and I frequently remind people: "Our best beer is the one your friends won't drink."

 

[BriarRosie]

I'm good with that.

My reviews...as are all reviews....are opinions.

There are some facts thrown in....prices etc.....but for the most part they are opinions.

Just as you have written reviews.....they are your opinions.

Val & I were listening to this review on the flight back home last night and we were both alternately laughing out loud and shaking our heads. Its almost like listening to one of Pete's rants.

Over time, we've found that we agree with Kevin's opinions about 90% of the time so we place great stock in his reviews. But we make up our own minds.

I wanted to juxtapose Jeff's comment with Kevin's, because it makes I point I want to emphasize. Kevin doesn't realize how much of a ripple effect his reviews are to the people on the DIS who will write off a restaurant because his review is so overpoweringly negative. But Kevin always makes a point that we should try a place for ourselves. At least Jeff seems to take Kevin's advice to heart. Is that falling on deaf ears for many others, though?

I believe so, because you'll see a lot of people on the Restaurants board second-guess their ADRs. Countless times I will scan a thread, "Did I make a mistake?" because they booked an ADR for a place that got horrible reviews.

But I have to let everyone in on the joke: EVERY restaurant that gets positive reviews will ALWAYS get some negative reviews. That's got to be frustrating for newbies to make a decision.

As for Kouzzina, I haven't tried it yet, and I am trying to catch up on the podcasts, because I was in WDW last week when the Kouzzina review podcast was released. (I'm only past Kim's coffee "piece of Pittsburgh" at the moment.) I want to hear Kevin's review. I find his reviews entertaining, even if I may or may not agree with his assessment.

For what it's worth, my friend had the whole fish entree at Kouzzina a couple of weeks ago and found it fabulous. I am going to try Kouzzina one of these trips and decide for myself.

Edit to add:

I just went to the Restaurant board, in the Food and Wine thread, and someone just posted this morning that they ate at Kouzzina last night and enjoyed it. I think that drives the point home to try the place for yourselves before making a decision to avoid it.

 

[lugnut33]

I wanted to juxtapose Jeff's comment with Kevin's, because it makes I point I want to emphasize. Kevin doesn't realize how much of a ripple effect his reviews are to the people on the DIS who will write off a restaurant because his review is so overpoweringly negative. But Kevin always makes a point that we should try a place for ourselves. At least Jeff seems to take Kevin's advice to heart. Is that falling on deaf ears for many others, though?

I believe so, because you'll see a lot of people on the Restaurants board second-guess their ADRs. Countless times I will scan a thread, "Did I make a mistake?" because they booked an ADR for a place that got horrible reviews.

But I have to let everyone in on the joke: EVERY restaurant that gets positive reviews will ALWAYS get some negative reviews. That's got to be frustrating for newbies to make a decision.

As for Kouzzina, I haven't tried it yet, and I am trying to catch up on the podcasts, because I was in WDW last week when the Kouzzina review podcast was released. (I'm only past Kim's coffee "piece of Pittsburgh" at the moment.) I want to hear Kevin's review. I find his reviews entertaining, even if I may or may not agree with his assessment.

For what it's worth, my friend had the whole fish entree at Kouzzina a couple of weeks ago and found it fabulous. I am going to try Kouzzina one of these trips and decide for myself.

Edit to add:

I just went to the Restaurant board, in the Food and Wine thread, and someone just posted this morning that they ate at Kouzzina last night and enjoyed it. I think that drives the point home to try the place for yourselves before making a decision to avoid it.

That's a great point. I remember a few years ago we ate at Coral Reef and I remember going into it thinking we had made a mistake because of all the negative reviews it got (even in the Unofficial Guide). Well, it ended up being one of the best meals we had the entire time. A couple of weeks later came Kevin's review with the sad little crabcake. Like somebody said, mileage may vary.