Kerry Supporters: Some Consolation

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by Teejay32
I'm not understanding this at all. To my knowledge no one has even suggested that Iraq was a threat because of religious fundamentalism. What looks like oppression to me is another person's religious freedom...but we generally agree on matters like what constitutes terrorism, genocide, etc.

genocide.....Dufar, Sudan.

 

[septbride2002]

The number is acceptable to me, even if it is 100,000. Sorry, but innocent people die in war. It's a fact of life. I hate it, I hate that it happens, but it is what it is. And if a hundred innocent Iraqis have to die to save a single American soldier, that is a fair trade off as far as I'm concerned.

Oh Buck Naked - now why did you have to go and make a comment like that. I had pretty much avoided political threads all day until I stumble across this. Now you know I just HAVE to comment.

One death does not justify a life. 100,000 deaths does not justify a life. Your statement has probably shocked me more then any other statement. It reminded me of reading an article back in the early to mid 90's where someone stated, "Well if you kill the Doctors you stop the abortions." Trading one life for another. 100,000 Iraqis didn't have to die if the American Soldiers weren't there. Just a thought.

Dmadman - Please please please tell me you are not an American citizen so that I can remind you that freedom of speech doesn't count for you then. Just like you told the OP on a different thread.

~Amanda

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by septbride2002

One death does not justify a life. 100,000 deaths does not justify a life. Your statement has probably shocked me more then any other statement. It reminded me of reading an article back in the early to mid 90's where someone stated, "Well if you kill the Doctors you stop the abortions." Trading one life for another. 100,000 Iraqis didn't have to die if the American Soldiers weren't there. Just a thought.

Amazing logic. Lets step back a clicks. In fact, lets go WAAAAAY back.

If Eve hadn't tempted Adam with an apple.....

Fighting (or helping to free people) for freedom is not worth a single death?

I'm sure glad the Revolutionaries saw things differently.

Don't you?

But standing by while others get murdered by the hundreds of thousands is somehow more justifiable?

Also, if we are ever together and need to defend ourselves, let me have the gun.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues

If Eve hadn't tempted Adam with an apple.....

"But man, I ain't goin' for that..."

C'mon! Everybody!!

"I love ya for your Pink Cadillac....."

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by septbride2002
Dmadman - Please please please tell me you are not an American citizen so that I can remind you that freedom of speech doesn't count for you then. Just like you told the OP on a different thread.

~Amanda

Huh?

 

[MJames41]

Originally posted by septbride2002
Oh Buck Naked - now why did you have to go and make a comment like that. I had pretty much avoided political threads all day until I stumble across this. Now you know I just HAVE to comment.

One death does not justify a life. 100,000 deaths does not justify a life. Your statement has probably shocked me more then any other statement. It reminded me of reading an article back in the early to mid 90's where someone stated, "Well if you kill the Doctors you stop the abortions." Trading one life for another. 100,000 Iraqis didn't have to die if the American Soldiers weren't there. Just a thought.

Dmadman - Please please please tell me you are not an American citizen so that I can remind you that freedom of speech doesn't count for you then. Just like you told the OP on a different thread.

~Amanda

Then I take it you are for the war. The United Nations number had Hussein killing 50,000 of his own by either torture, or by letting them starve to death, every year, 2/3 of them children under 14. We are finding multiple mass graves with thousands buried in their. Torture site after torture site has been discovered. Yet many believe these numbers are made up while the "100,000 innocent deaths" from an article written by scholars, who in the middle of their article admit their number are estimates only, are true numbers. They did a survey and came up with those numbers. Surveys are great for many things, but coming up with a number of dead? That is so unbelievably Orwellian, that even Orwell couldn't have come up with it. And the number is given as true.

Yet you would trade these "100,000" lives for the lives of those who really were being killed by Hussein and his children. The potentially ficticious 100,000 dead have more life than those who really were killed. I do agree with your thesis, I just disagree with your conclusion.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by dmadman43
"But man, I ain't goin' for that..."

C'mon! Everybody!!

"I love ya for your Pink Cadillac....."

 

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by oracle
The point is that accepting a fundamentalist regime means that Iraq can continue to be a hotbed for anti-American, or more generally, anti-Western thought. The same sort of stuff that is taught in Iran or Saudi Arabia could be taught there. Women and minorities could be oppressed, etc.. My point was that if a fundamentalist regime is accepted, it would defeat the principles of a safe and liberated Middle East.

There's a lot to answer in one post...are you using "fundamentalist" to mean "radical"? I wasn't. For Iraq specifically, I'm a huge supporter of this war and even I wouldn't begrudge them anti-Americanism at this point...but the teaching extends throughout the Middle East, not just within the fundamentalist states you mentioned. I thought Iraq would prove something about that. We (western states) protected fundamentalists from a secular regime, and we're now working with them to forge a democratic process in Iraq. It's not smooth or anything, but think about how that turns a lot of conventional wisdom upside down.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by Pete's Mom
Great! We will send him right over!
KERRY FOR PRIME MINISTER!

Damn, how about giving someone a warning! I had to clean the coke off my computer screen!

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
From a personal persepective, I am one of those wimp Americans...You know, the kind who actually admit that their lives have changed since bush decided to pre-emptively invade a country of no immenent threat. I no longer like to risk my families lives by flying, I no longer feel safe travelling Europe on an American passport and I am absolutely sure that MORE people in the world hate me now than they did a scant four years ago. For this Mr. bush gets all the credit.

So, it was the President's fault that two planes plowed into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon and one in a field in Pennsylvania? I understand your fear of flying, but did you have this fear before we went to war? Or after?

What did you do to have so many "people in the world" hate you? The polls I've read is that the "people in the world" like Americans, but they don't agree with our policies.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by dcentity2000
How do you guage if you are right? If you alter the world, shouldn't it be the majority of the world that decides upon the matter, under democracy (or at least as much as is possible)? At the very least, shouldn't you get the UN to agree with you?

Sure, while we're at it, let's take a worldwide poll concerning the return of Northern Ireland.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
I keep hearing about Iraq being a "war for oil"...so where is it?

ITA -- in my "neck of the woods," the price of gas/oil is higher now than before the war.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by rcyannacci Thanks for posting, Rich. I am comforted by the thoughts of friends both here in America and internationally. I won't, however, be applying for citizenship anywhere else. I plan to stay here and work to make my country a better place for me, my family, my neighbors, and the global community.

ITA Great post!

There are at least two silver linings in this cloud. Bush married Laura, who I think is a terrific first lady (both in Austin and in Washington DC), and Bush IS a Texan! Score another one for TEXAS!