Kerry for the middle class?

Originally posted by BuckNaked
denisenh, you've still not really answered the question I posed early on. If Kerry is for the middle class, why did he oppose the tax cuts that have gone to the middle class?

Bush Still Fudging the Numbers on Kerry's Tax Votes
Ad claims Kerry cast "98 votes" to raise taxes, but the total is misleading.

August 30, 2004

Modified: October 11, 2004

The Bush-Cheney campaign released a television ad August 23 accusing Kerry of casting "98 votes for tax increases." The number is an improvement on Bush's earlier claim that Kerry cast 350 votes for "higher taxes," which we described as inflated. But even the new, reduced total is padded.

Of the 98 votes for "tax increases," 43 were cast on budget measures that only set targets and don't actually legislate tax increases. Often, several votes are counted regarding a single tax bill.

The ad also strives to blame Kerry for raising taxes on the "middle class" and says "There's what Kerry says and then there's what Kerry does." But a close look shows the votes cited in this ad are in fact fairly consistent with Kerry's promise only to raise taxes on those making over $200,000 a year.

(Update, Oct. 11: The Bush campaign still insists their count of 98 votes is correct. We don't agree, for the reasons stated here. However, we have posted their rebuttal under "supporting documents" at right.)


Analysis



The ad released August 23 is called "Taxing Our Economy," accusing Kerry of voting repeatedly to raise taxes on the "middle class."

Bush-Cheney '04 Ad

"Taxing Our Economy"

Announcer: Now Kerry promises...

John Kerry: We won't raise taxes on the middle class.

Announcer: Really? John Kerry's voted to raise gas taxes on the middle class ....10 times....

He supported a 50 cent a gallon gas tax increase.

Higher taxes on middle class parents.... 18 times.

He voted to raise taxes on social security benefits.

98 votes for tax increases.

There's what Kerry says and then there's what Kerry does.

Stretching for 98

Bush has scaled back an earlier claim that Kerry voted 350 times for "higher taxes," a number we previously described as bogus . However, Bush is still using misleading numbers.

Of the 98 votes "for tax increases," 43 would not actually have increased taxes. They were for budget bills to set target levels for spending and taxes in the coming fiscal years.

To be sure, such votes did express Kerry's general approval for the higher tax levels they contained. But strictly speaking, separate legislation would be required to bring about an actual tax increase. In fact, budget resolutions are not even submitted to the President, much less made into law.

The Bush campaign also exploits the complexity of the parliamentary voting system to pad the number. Most of the 98 votes were on procedural measures, such as votes to end debate or votes on amendments, and not on passage of the measure itself. More than once, the 98-vote total counts half a dozen votes or more on on a single bill.

For example, the total includes:

Sixteen votes -- by the Bush campaign's own count -- on Clinton's 1993 deficit-reduction package, which raised taxes (almost exclusively on the highest-earning one or two percent of households) and cut spending. Only one of the 16 was on final passage of that measure, and the rest on various amendments and parliamentary maneuverings.
Six votes on Sen. John McCain's 1998 proposal to raise taxes on cigarettes by $1.10 a pack to deter youthful smoking. Four were votes for cloture (to end debate). One was a procedural vote to waive budget restrictions requiring 60 votes to approve the McCain bill. The sixth vote was against stripping the tax-increase provisions from a broader measure McCain was using as a vehicle for his proposal.
Seven votes that were cast on one budget resolution for the 1996 fiscal year, one of them a vote for a Democratic alternative to the Republican-proposed budget, increasing funding for Medicare, veterans' benefits, and education, financed by higher taxes on corporations and persons making over $140,000 a year. The other five were votes to increase spending on such things as student loans and health research, funded by closing tax "loopholes" or raising the tobacco tax.
Six votes on the 1997 budget resolution. Kerry voted variously for higher funding for education, Medicare, the National Park Service, the Environmental Protection Agency, and veterans benefits, financed by "closing corporate tax loopholes" and extending expired tax provisions.

Kerry supported middle class tax increases?

–Gasoline Tax: The ad claims that Kerry voted to "raise gas taxes on the middle class 10 times," which is false. As we've noted before, five of those votes were on the 1993 Clinton package, which resulted in a 4.3-cent per gallon increase in the federal gasoline tax. And five of the votes were not to raise the tax, as the ad falsely claims, but were against Republican attempts to cut the gasoline tax. Four were against repeal of Clinton's 4.3-cent tax after it had gone into effect. The last vote was against temporarily suspending the 18.4-cent federal gasoline tax entirely for 150 days during a period of spiking gasoline prices in 2000.

The Bush ad also recycles once again the statement that Kerry "supported a 50 cent a gallon gas tax increase," which (as we've noted before) hasn't been true for a decade. Kerry once told newspaper interviewers that he deserved credit as a deficit hawk for supporting such an increase, but the fact is he had passed up a chance to cosponsor a Senate bill that would have done that, never voted for such an increase, and says he opposes such an increase now.

–Child Tax Credit: The ad further claims that Kerry voted 18 times for "higher taxes on middle class parents." All these were votes against Republican proposals for granting tax credits for families with children, going back to 1994, and many were votes against broad Republican tax packages that included expanded child credits as one element. Strictly speaking, those weren't votes to raise taxes as the ad implies, but votes to keep taxes unchanged. Now, Kerry says he'd preserve the child tax credits currently on the books.

–Social Security: It's true as the ad states that Kerry voted to increase taxes on Social Security benefits, an increase included in the 1993 deficit-cutting package. That increased tax goes to help pay for Medicare, and is paid only by those making $144,000 a year or more for a married couple, falling on roughly the highest-earning 18% of Social Security recipients.

–Middle Class:Generally this ad attempts to discredit Kerry's promise not to raise taxes on the "middle class," but in fact many of the votes cited by the Bush campaign are votes to do pretty much what he promises to do if elected: raise taxes on upper-income taxpayers. The votes on the fiscal '96 budget are a good example, as the increases would have fallen on those making over $140,000 a year.Currently, Kerry promises to repeal the Bush cuts only for those making over $200,000 a year.

Picking Through 6,000 Votes

By our tally, Kerry has cast more than 6,000 recorded votes over his nearly 20-year Senate career. It's fair game for the Bush campaign to pick through those looking for votes that are contrary to Kerry's stated positions. But as this ad demonstrates, voters have reason to be skeptical of such exercises. Bush's claim that 98 of those 6,000 votes were to "raise taxes" is still misleading.
 
Originally posted by ainmama2001
If everyone that was all up in arms about the GWB tax plan and the current deficit sent back their checks, even if they were a lousy $300 (I'd be pretty happy to see $100!!!!!) imagine the difference it would make! But, people prefer to keep the money and then complain about the hole we're in. It's kind of ironic.
This is such a great point, one liberals dance and dance and dance around. Any liberal like to describe how they sent thier tax cut back to the government? I'd love to hear about it. Anyone?
 
Nice article denisenh, but it didn't answer the question. It is a matter of record that Kerry voted against the Bush's tax cuts. If he is for the middle class, why did he vote against middle class tax cuts?
 
Something that I have noticed is that the "whole" truth isn't spoken when it comes to Kerry.
The same misleading comments get thrown around repeatedly and folks take it at that.

For example, I hope I put this correctly from memory as it is failing fast,
John Kerry did not oppose partial birth abortion.
Well, that sounds horrible. Who wouldn't oppose such an inhumane procedure? It completely disgusts me to the core of my being!
Well, John Kerry explained, when given the opportunity to do so, that the "bill" (or whatever it was) would completely ban the partial birth abortion (PBA) .
Kerry did not want that as he was concerned about the posssibility that for some reason, unknown to those not in the medical field, a PBA would be nessesary to save the life of the mother. Against partial-birth abortion but there are exceptions

******KERRY: I'm against the partial-birth abortion, but you've got to have an exception for the life of the mother and the health of the mother under the strictest test of bodily injury to the mother. Secondly, with respect to parental notification, I'm not going to require a 16- or 17-year-old kid who's been raped by her father and who's pregnant to have to notify her father. So you got to have a judicial intervention. And because they didn't have a judicial intervention where she could go somewhere and get help, I voted against it. It's never quite as simple as Bush wants you to believe. ******

He holds the same type of reasoning when it comes to abortion.
From the 3rd Presidential debate transcripts:

*****The New York Times reports that some Catholic archbishops are telling their church members that it would be a sin to vote for a candidate like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem-cell research.

What is your reaction to that?

KERRY: I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, as do many.

I believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith.

I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor. And that's why I support that.

Now, I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade.

The president has never said whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court he wants to.

I will not. I will defend the right of Roe v. Wade.*******
 

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Nice article denisenh, but it didn't answer the question. It is a matter of record that Kerry voted against the Bush's tax cuts. If he is for the middle class, why did he vote against middle class tax cuts?
I am sorry bucknaked. I thought that the article would be helpful.
Could you please tell me exactly which of "Bushs tax cuts" you are referring to?
 
Again, great commentary.

Now, would you mind answering the question? If Kerry is for the middle class, as you claim, why did he vote twice against middle class tax cuts?

I believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith.

And yet he does exactly that, by constantly voting in favor of social programs where one group of people pay for another group of people.
 
Kerry will work for the middle class.

My question would be "Based on what?" It is a matter of record and easily verified that Kerry voted against tax cuts in 2001 & 2003, tax cuts that benefit the middle class. And before you say "No, the tax cuts only benefit the rich!!", lets take a look at the numbers.

First of all, your statement or question as it seems, is whether or not Kerry will work for the middle class.

The answer isn't based on a single idea or action such as tax cuts. That is a piece of the pie. A piece.

To answer your question a little more specifically, I will lead you to factcheck.org. where you can see how statements made by Bush were taken out of context regarding accusations against Kerry that he voted to raise taxes. (can't find anything yet related to your original contention about Kerry.) Honestly, there have been so many accusations. Please keep up with factcheck.org for the real dirt.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=247

In addition, for your further information, the reason that Kerry voted against a bill that cut taxes in 2001 and 2003 is because a PORTION of the bill called for tax cuts that did only apply to upper-income taxpayers. Congressmen are always dealing with rejection of bills because they aren't the complete package--they have a flaw that is seen, although by and large they may be passable bills. When a rejection occurs, a piece of the bill is not suitable. This is why the tax cuts you are referring to in 2001 and 2003 were voted against.

It's all about context people. You have to look at the big picture, the reasons, the how and why. Any fact alone is just that. To understand the big picture takes time and the willingness to learn.

Here's some more for you, and, as promised, sources are included.

BUSH'S TAX CUT REALITY:

In 2004, Top One Percent Will Receive Average Tax Cut Of $35,000; Middle Class Will Receive Average Tax Cut Of $647. The benefits of Bush’s tax cuts primarily benefit the rich. The top one percent of households will receive tax cuts averaging almost $35,000--or 54 times more than middle-class families. Households with incomes above $1 million will receive tax cuts averaging about $123,600. [Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 4/14/04]

George Bush's Plan Shifts the Tax Burden to the Middle Class. In contrast, under the Bush plan the "Tax Burden Shifts to the Middle" according to a Washington Post headline, and "middle America - average annual income $75,600 - saw its share of the federal tax burden increase from 18.7 percent to 19.5 percent." In addition, George Bush has imposed a tax of thousands of dollars on families through higher costs for health care, gasoline, college tuition, and state and local taxes. [Washington Post, 8/13/04]
 
Thanks, but I'm already an avid reader of factcheck.org.

There is no doubt that the Bush campaign has exaggerated the number of times that Kerry has voted for tax increases. But there is no doubt that he has voted against middle class tax cuts twice in the past 3 years. If he is so eager to fight for the middle class, why was he opposed to cutting their taxes?

It really is a very simple question, and not one that really requires pages and pages of editorial commentary about everything but the subject of the question.
 
Originally posted by BuckNaked
Again, great commentary.

Now, would you mind answering the question? If Kerry is for the middle class, as you claim, why did he vote twice against middle class tax cuts?



And yet he does exactly that, by constantly voting in favor of social programs where one group of people pay for another group of people.

Could you please tell me which of the Bush tax cuts you are referring to? (Your source perhaps)
 
One day a florist goes to a barber for a haircut. After the cut he
asked about his bill and the barber replies: "I'm sorry, I cannot
accept money from you; I'm doing community service this week. "The florist is pleased and leaves the shop. Next morning when the barber goes to open up, there is a thank you card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door.

Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he goes to pay his bill the barber again replies: "I'm sorry, I cannot accept money from you; I'm doing community service this week." The cop is happy and leaves the shop. Next morning when the barber goes to open up, there is a thank you card and a dozen donuts waiting for him at his door.

Then a Democrat comes in for a haircut, and when he goes to pay his bill the barber again replies: "I'm sorry, I cannot accept money from you; I'm doing community service this week." The Democrat is very happy and leaves the shop. Next morning when the barber goes to open up, there are a dozen Democrats lined up waiting for their free haircut.
 
Could you please tell me which of the Bush tax cuts you are referring to? (Your source perhaps)

Sure, the Bush across the board cuts in income tax rates, child credits and marriage penalty in 2001 and 2003.

In fact, neither senator supported either the 2001 or the 2003 Bush tax-cut measures. And both Kerry and Edwards have consistently called for repealing the portion of the cuts that apply to upper-income taxpayers.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@docID=138.html
 
The Man Of The Common Folk. He Feels Your Pain.

The many homes of Democrat Presidential candidate, John F. Kerry. Fox Chapel, Pennsylvania (Assessed value: $3.7 million)

Ketchum, Idaho ski getaway/vacation home (Assessed value: $4.916 million)

Washington, D.C - Georgetown area (assessment: $4.7 million)

Nantucket, Massachusetts waterfront retreat on Brant Point (Assessed Value $9.18 million)

Boston, Massachusetts - Beacon Hill home (Assessed value: $6.9)

Oh, and he sold this estate in Italy to activist actor George Clooney, just before announcing his running for president. I guess he thought it might not sit well with the common man. ($7.8 million)

Other foreign property ownership by John Kerry is unknown... because he denied repeated requests for this information.

Class warfare is not right, but neither is being a hypocrite. This man wants to be our president, while claiming that he relates to Joe-6-pack and the common man. He wants to raise income taxes on the rich, well, guess what? He won't pay those taxes because he is already rich! He wants to take it harder for you to get rich by raising taxes on your income! Talk about snobbery and protecting his "class."
 
But there is no doubt that he has voted against middle class tax cuts twice in the past 3 years. If he is so eager to fight for the middle class, why was he opposed to cutting their taxes?

The answer to your question is in my post above.

I hope I answered your question. Did you read my answer?
 
In addition, for your further information, the reason that Kerry voted against a bill that cut taxes in 2001 and 2003 is because a PORTION of the bill called for tax cuts that did only apply to upper-income taxpayers.

Assuming this is correct, which I'm not, since you've provided nothing to verify it nor are you even sure what it was, Kerry voted to give the middle class no tax cuts just because a higher income group might get something more? That seems a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water to me.

Middle Class Will Receive Average Tax Cut Of $647.

Care to provide the numbers upon which this is based? A married couple filing jointly with a taxable income of $14,000 saves $700 under the Bush tax cut. That's irrefutable - look at the tax tables from 2000 and 2003.

In contrast, under the Bush plan the "Tax Burden Shifts to the Middle" according to a Washington Post headline, and "middle America - average annual income $75,600 - saw its share of the federal tax burden increase from 18.7 percent to 19.5 percent."

Please explain to me why it matters what percentage of the burden the middle class pays when their taxes have still gone down?

I could be wrong but I think you are not understanding the article. You may want to re read it. yikers

Yes, you are wrong, yes I do understand the article and I've already read it, so I don't need to read it again. You asked which tax cuts Kerry voted against and asked for a source. I provided it.

Kerry and Edwards were both among the "Nay" votes against Bush's 2001 tax-cut bill -- the "Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001" -- when it first came up in the Senate on May 23, 2001. It passed 62-38.

And on May 26, 2001 when the House-Senate compromise bill came up for the final Senate vote required to send the measure on for the President's signature, Edwards voted "Nay." Kerry was absent but his vote would not have made a difference: the bill passed 58-33

The second Bush tax-cut bill came up two years later, the "Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003." And both Kerry and Edwards voted "Nay" when it was first considered on May 15, 2003. It passed 51-49.

And when the JGTRRA tax-cut bill came up for final passage May 23, 2003, Edwards and Kerry both voted "Nay." The vote was 50-50, and the measure became law only because Vice President Cheney cast the tie-breaking vote in his Constitutional role as President of the Senate.

What part of that do you think I didn't understand?
 
Originally posted by Desperado
The Man Of The Common Folk. He Feels Your Pain.

The many homes of Democrat Presidential candidate, John F. Kerry. Fox Chapel, Pennsylvania (Assessed value: $3.7 million)

Ketchum, Idaho ski getaway/vacation home (Assessed value: $4.916 million)

Washington, D.C - Georgetown area (assessment: $4.7 million)

Nantucket, Massachusetts waterfront retreat on Brant Point (Assessed Value $9.18 million)

Boston, Massachusetts - Beacon Hill home (Assessed value: $6.9)

Oh, and he sold this estate in Italy to activist actor George Clooney, just before announcing his running for president. I guess he thought it might not sit well with the common man. ($7.8 million)

Other foreign property ownership by John Kerry is unknown... because he denied repeated requests for this information.

Class warfare is not right, but neither is being a hypocrite. This man wants to be our president, while claiming that he relates to Joe-6-pack and the common man. He wants to raise income taxes on the rich, well, guess what? He won't pay those taxes because he is already rich! He wants to take it harder for you to get rich by raising taxes on your income! Talk about snobbery and protecting his "class."

I saw the same exact thing posted on several other message boards! neato
 
Originally posted by BuckNaked
Yes, you are wrong, yes I do understand the article and I've already read it, so I don't need to read it again. You asked which tax cuts Kerry voted against and asked for a source. I provided it.
What part of that do you think I didn't understand?

Kerrys voting and reasons show that HE WAS working for (and will work for) the middle class. :D
 
Originally posted by denisenh
Kerrys voting and reasons show that HE WAS working for (and will work for) the middle class. :D

Raising taxes is working for the middle class?
 
Maybe I am misinformed, but my understanding is that the Bush family's holdings are not too shabby either. Just bc he eats pork rinds and speaks in a drawl does not make Bush an average Joe.

As for the tax cuts and the middle class, I won't dispute that my Federal tax bill went down at least minimally - by my calculation, we saved a whopping $700. However, it does not nearly make up for the increase in my state and local taxes which are now higher bc of unfunded mandates (eg: NCLB & homeland security initiatives) and cuts to programs that had been funded by the Feds. And don't even get me started on the increases to my health insurance premiums since GWB came to town. I was paying $100 per month in 2000, this year, we're up to over $250 with higher deductibles. And the little issue of the "return" on my investments - or should I say "drain". At this rate, there will be no retirement for me.

As for voting records, it's all in the spin. Every take a look at the legislative history of a law? You'd be appalled at how many votes are actually taken before the "real" thing, and how much nonsense they all try to stuff into these bills just to be able to apply leverage on their opponents. That's how people vote against things before they vote for them. Happens every day, even in the GOP. If you count every single vote, and take them out of context, you can make anyone look good or bad, depending on your perspective. Take a look at Cheney's record and see how many things he now supports that he voted against when he was in Congress.
 


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