Keeping Ukraine in our thoughts and prayers here

[punkin]

Polish MIG fighter update:
The possibility of Poland providing Russian made fighter jets to Ukraine has been mentioned a couple of times. It never made much sense, and when Poland made their actual offer, it became a no-brainer "NO" for the United States.

Poland's offer was to deliver ALL of their Russian made fighter jets to the US airbase in Ramstein, Germany. That's in far Western Germany, almost to France. Then, the US would somehow transfer those jets to Ukraine and replace them with US jets to Poland.

Naw. Ain't happening! https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-poland-nato-5724ff192113703d829024dc4410664e

That makes no sense.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Polish MIG fighter update:
The possibility of Poland providing Russian made fighter jets to Ukraine has been mentioned a couple of times. It never made much sense, and when Poland made their actual offer, it became a no-brainer "NO" for the United States.

Poland's offer was to deliver ALL of their Russian made fighter jets to the US airbase in Ramstein, Germany. That's in far Western Germany, almost to France. Then, the US would somehow transfer those jets to Ukraine and replace them with US jets to Poland.

Naw. Ain't happening! https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-poland-nato-5724ff192113703d829024dc4410664e

My, what a tangled web we weave. It would take a period of time to get pilots trained on MIGs up to speed on flying US jets, leaving Poland vulnerable in the mean time - aside from Russian perceptions. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but a closer look at the logistics make it unrealistic. And no one wants there to be more countries involved than there already are at this point. Really, no easy answers.

 

[Planogirl]

Now they are saying that the Russians bombed a hospital. They are either wildly incompetent or truly evil. Maybe both.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Where does it end?

With the end. Very few survivors, but as others have pointed out, it is extremely unlikely that anyone except an absolute madman would launch a nuclear strike or retaliate.

No one wants this other than Putin

This. And no one wants Putin. He's lost the last several of his "elections" but kept the power anyway.

I don’t think this was unintentional.

Agreed.

Sure. But at some point, they have to see the destruction they’re causing and know they’re firing real ammunition. They have to reload, and refuel. Conversations take place then, etc.

Yes - but what is the cost for denying orders in the Russian military? I don't genuinely know, but I'd bet it's not a conversation. If the choice I'm presented with is follow my orders and live, or don't and die (probably), I certainly want to believe that I have a strong enough moral compass to do what is right, but do we really know if we aren't in that situation? Plus, I'm an adult. Many of the Russian military are glorified kids without fully developed frontal lobes.

The Russian people also know by now what is going on. They don't live in a total vacuum. They know.

Maybe, but I tend to agree with Karin below.

And I think that the average Russian might not know what is going on. Not just because of state controlled media, but also that till a decade ago travel outside Russia was not affordable for a lot of people. The level of English is not great. Social media is not that widespread as it is in other western countries .

I think being terrified to voice dissent is not the same as supporting something.

THIS. I don't know if you saw the pictures of the huge protests, but people were being carted off left and right.

I have a hard time blaming the average Russian for supporting the war, when you see the propaganda Putin puts out. There was a video of a young girl with pigtails explaining their version of the truth on television to teach children. If propaganda is all they see and hear, aren't they then victims as well?

People underestimate the strength of propaganda. Especially in a country that is nationalistic. I can't understand why people underestimate it. Turn on 3 different news stations with their own agendas and beliefs and you'll get three different perspectives on the same story. You'll also get three different people who vehemently parrot whatever their preferred station told them, without giving it a second thought.
And people think that the Russian population really knows whats going on when they're being force fed state controlled media and social networking sites are being blocked. They don't. No one will know the magnitude of what has happened for, perhaps a decade. Russia is good at keeping secrets and blocking information from being disseminated.

To say that all Russians, except the ones protesting, are guilty is one step too far for me. War isn't that black and white to me. And yes, as a Dutch person my view on war is entirely different from Americans.

This American agrees with you wholeheartedly.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

https://www.kctv5.com/2022/03/09/lo...ruggling-keep-up-with-demand-ukrainian-flags/
A local story of support:
"All Nations Flag Company in the River Market has no complex assembly line. They have a cutting table and one seamstress. On Tuesday she was busy sewing strips of blue and yellow. A stack of eight flags sat on a table waiting for grommets to be installed. A box of about a dozen were in bags downstairs by the register. The waiting list of orders to be filled neared 100."

"...the last time the store, owned by him, his dad, and his brother, had this much demand for a single nation’s flag was for American flags after 9/11. Never has he seen such a strong and sudden demand for another nation’s flag."

"Wald {co-owner} said nine out of 10 buyers are like Armato {a customer}, with no personal connection to Ukraine. Still, he was surprised by how many Kansas Citians have come in who are originally from Ukraine. He said heard from several customers early last week who were preparing for loved ones to arrive on flights."



I myself didn't realize the amount we have here that have originated from Ukraine. I knew we had a pocket neighborhood with a famous bakery (that makes povitica as their main specialty) where there's a high amount of Croatian and Slovenian immigrants or descendants but didn't realize about Ukrainians.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Now they are saying that the Russians bombed a hospital. They are either wildly incompetent or truly evil. Maybe both.

When I read the news multiple stories were saying the hospital was a maternity and children's hospital though it wasn't clear if they were separate buildings in the same vicinity or one in the same building, it didn't speak to anyone having been killed but that 17 were injured. I do not have confidence that a present no casualty situation will stay but that's just my thoughts. I sincerely hope there are no casualties though.

Not that any hospital should have this happen but there is something about knowing it was a maternity and children's hospital that just makes it all that more worse

 

[punkin]

https://www.kctv5.com/2022/03/09/lo...ruggling-keep-up-with-demand-ukrainian-flags/
A local story of support:
"All Nations Flag Company in the River Market has no complex assembly line. They have a cutting table and one seamstress. On Tuesday she was busy sewing strips of blue and yellow. A stack of eight flags sat on a table waiting for grommets to be installed. A box of about a dozen were in bags downstairs by the register. The waiting list of orders to be filled neared 100."

"...the last time the store, owned by him, his dad, and his brother, had this much demand for a single nation’s flag was for American flags after 9/11. Never has he seen such a strong and sudden demand for another nation’s flag."

"Wald {co-owner} said nine out of 10 buyers are like Armato {a customer}, with no personal connection to Ukraine. Still, he was surprised by how many Kansas Citians have come in who are originally from Ukraine. He said heard from several customers early last week who were preparing for loved ones to arrive on flights."



I myself didn't realize the amount we have here that have originated from Ukraine. I knew we had a pocket neighborhood with a famous bakery (that makes povitica as their main specialty) where there's a high amount of Croatian and Slovenian immigrants or descendants but didn't realize about Ukrainians.

There's a decent sized "Russian" Jewish community in Kansas City area. Many of them are from Ukraine.

 

[lifesavacation]

Going after a maternity hospital with laboring women and newborns. This is truly heinous. Putin will keep doing these things because he knows no one will step in. My heart breaks for the Ukranians.

 

[mom2rtk]

Going after a maternity hospital with laboring women and newborns. This is truly heinous. Putin will keep doing these things because he knows no one will step in. My heart breaks for the Ukranians.

I can't think of anything more despicable.

 

[lifesavacation]

I can't think of anything more despicable.

I just can’t imagine a more vulnerable place/time as a woman. Truly horrific.

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

Going after a maternity hospital with laboring women and newborns. This is truly heinous. Putin will keep doing these things because he knows no one will step in. My heart breaks for the Ukranians.

Putin really has gone off the rails. Remember, last week he bombed a nuclear reactor. Utterly, utterly, crazy.

 

[Planogirl]

Putin keeps making the claim that there are neonazis at these places. There is a questionable group that has volunteered to fight but they are small and can’t be everywhere. That is just an excuse but I wanted to mention them because propaganda keeps bringing them up. Besides even if they were there it’s still wrong to attack a hospital or nuclear plant!

 

[punkin]

Putin keeps making the claim that there are neonazis at these places. There is a questionable group that has volunteered to fight but they are small and can’t be everywhere. That is just an excuse but I wanted to mention them because propaganda keeps bringing them up. Besides even if they were there it’s still wrong to attack a hospital or nuclear plant!

I guess it was a cell of nazi pregnant women and newborns. Gotta get em started early.
I honestly wonder who believes Russian propaganda anymore. It verges on insanity.

 

[mom2rtk]

.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Well I guess this thread was good while it lasted.

Seems a lot of people want it shut down, and posters here helping to fuel the fire from within.

 

[punkin]

Well I guess this thread was good while it lasted.

Seems a lot of people want it shut down, and posters here helping to fuel the fire from within.

What did I miss?

 

[Sinder]

Putin is just evil, his depravity knows no bounds.
The sad reality is that Putin knows he can get away with everything he is doing. He knows those who could stop him will sit by and continue to issue sanctions. Why should he stop murdering innocent people when he knows nobody is really going to stop him from doing it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Speaking about donation efforts from earlier---

One of the citizens in my city is originally from Moldova. Her and her husband have created a GoFundMe page to help raise money for the purchasing of supplies for refugees going to Moldova. Moldova is getting more and more and because of their size and population are getting overwhelmed with needs for those refugees (I believe the government has put out a message for global aid). The woman who lives here her sister still lives in Moldova and is buying for those refugees "food, things like diapers, wipes, personal care items, all those kinds of things," so the $ donation is going to purchase those items.

This part got to me though reading the news story "what would we we do if we had to pick up and take our child to another country with nothing? What would we do?" It's just a punch in the gut because of course that thought has occurred over time and of course this is hardly the first time nor the last time but then..you really start to think about it..IDK sometimes you just have those moments where you put yourself in someone's very uncomfortable shoes and it hits you like a train wreck.

 

[punkin]

Speaking about donation efforts from earlier---

One of the citizens in my city is originally from Moldova. Her and her husband have created a GoFundMe page to help raise money for the purchasing of supplies for refugees going to Moldova. Moldova is getting more and more and because of their size and population are getting overwhelmed with needs for those refugees (I believe the government has put out a message for global aid). The woman who lives here her sister still lives in Moldova and is buying for those refugees "food, things like diapers, wipes, personal care items, all those kinds of things," so the $ donation is going to purchase those items.

This part got to me though reading the news story "what would we we do if we had to pick up and take our child to another country with nothing? What would we do?" It's just a punch in the gut because of course that thought has occurred over time and of course this is hardly the first time nor the last time but then..you really start to think about it..IDK sometimes you just have those moments where you put yourself in someone's very uncomfortable shoes and it hits you like a train wreck.

I actually have a charity (religious) that I've donated to in Moldova for years...I think I will send them some extra money as I'm sure they're going to be dealing with refugees.

 

[punkin]

Well here's a surprise. Apparently even Russia is maybe) conceding that they did in fact bomb a maternity hospital.

I can't seem to post a link but it's on Reuters.