Just Wondered/Michelle Obama's Thesis ?s

[salmoneous]

Whether they SHOULD be is immaterial to the reality of our political climate.

Our political climate is what we make it do be. We aren't helpless. We should all take responsiblity for where we take the debate.

Is this where you think the debate should go? Yes or no?

 

[bsnyder]

Hey Charlie! Long time, no see!

 

[Fitswimmer]

Why do you automatically assume people will attack? You haven't read the thesis.

If all spouses wives were off limits, in all campaigns, you'd have a point here. But they are not. Whether they SHOULD be is immaterial to the reality of our political climate. And to treat one candidate's spouse differently than another is wrong!

Exactly, so why isn't Cindy McCain getting this kind of scrutiny?

Let's not mistake this for anything other than what it really is. Someone got a lead that Michelle Obama's thesis at Princeton had something to do with race and may contain some negative statements about white people. By getting access to it, whoever they are hoped to link Obama to it to make the point that his Presidency would be dangerous for white people. When they couldn't access it, it became about Obama's "people" trying to keep it a secret.

 

[lilyv]

Exactly, so why isn't Cindy McCain getting this kind of scrutiny?

Let's not mistake this for anything other than what it really is. Someone got a lead that Michelle Obama's thesis at Princeton had something to do with race and may contain some negative statements about white people. By getting access to it, whoever they are hoped to link Obama to it to make the point that his Presidency would be dangerous for white people. When they couldn't access it, it became about Obama's "people" trying to keep it a secret.

And that is what this thread is all about. So sad.

 

[bsnyder]

Bet and others, I'm assuming you missed my post. As one of the most vehement Obama supporters here (I think ) let me refresh what I said:



Does that help explain why I, at least, don't see this as a big deal?

No, I think if that's the real reason you don't want the thesis released, it shows an even bigger problem. I see you don't assign Michelle Obama any responsibility for her "inflammatory language regarding racial politics" (If, in fact, that's what the thesis contains), instead you are content to place the blame on those who might "parrot" it.

 

[Fitswimmer]

And that is what this thread is all about. So sad.

Expect more of this kind of thing as November draws closer.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Do people really feel like they "poured their heart and soul" into their BA theses? I don't feel that way at all about mine. I felt strongly about my topic, I enjoyed writing it, felt a great sense of accomplishment when I was done, and learned a great deal. But it's only been four years, and there are lots of things I'd change about it if I were doing it now; I don't feel that it represents me or my philosophical views anymore.

I think the point of writing a thesis--the reason that they exist in the first place--is the experience of independent research and writing. If you want to go on to post-college education you really need that experience and it helps to get into programs to have that credential on your CV. Other than that, I would think that for most people 20 years later a thesis is just a really long academic paper they once wrote.

Mine sure is! Shoot, if I went back and read it now I'm not even sure I'd remember writing it!

 

[DisneyMomOK]

Just for clarity - are you saying you are going to use what a candidates spouse said 20 years ago as a basis for picking who you will vote for? Or are you just saying it's OK to question it?

I think many things impact for whom one votes; this would just be one of a multitude. But, as I originally asked, why has it been rendered unavailable? And, I believe it is naive on anyone's part to not see that Ms. Obama, an educated, vibrant woman, is not going to be strong impact on any decisions Senator Obama might make, thus making her opinions important.

 

[bsnyder]

Exactly, so why isn't Cindy McCain getting this kind of scrutiny?

Let's not mistake this for anything other than what it really is. Someone got a lead that Michelle Obama's thesis at Princeton had something to do with race and may contain some negative statements about white people. By getting access to it, whoever they are hoped to link Obama to it to make the point that his Presidency would be dangerous for white people. When they couldn't access it, it became about Obama's "people" trying to keep it a secret.

Probably because Cindy McCain has already been a Presidential contender's (and longtime Senator's) spouse, and the public record on her is already out there. Not so, for Michelle Obama.

Duh -They got a lead that it may have something to do with race because of the title she chose to give it.

If this situation were reversed, and there was a Cindy McCain thesis out there (I have no idea if there is or not, but if there is, I think it should not be embargoed), and there was reason to think that it contained negative statements about blacks, are you seriously trying to tell me that people wouldn't be up in arms about trying to keep it hidden?

PLEASE, I'm not that naive.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Probably because Cindy McCain has already been a Presidential contender's (and longtime Senator's) spouse, and the public record on her is already out there. Not so, for Michelle Obama.

Duh -They got a lead that it may have something to do with race because of the title she chose to give it.

If this situation were reversed, and there was a Cindy McCain thesis out there (I have no idea if there is or not, but if there is, I think it should not be embargoed), and there was reason to think that it contained negative statements about blacks, are you seriously trying to tell me that people wouldn't be up in arms about trying to keep it hidden?

Sorry, I'm not that naive.

And of course we all are...

I can only tell you that I wouldn't care what Cindy McCain wrote about 20 years ago. She's not the candidate. I don't care what, if anything, she wrote last week.

I only care about the people whose names are on the ballot.

 

[wvrevy]

No, I think if that's the real reason you don't want the thesis released, it shows an even bigger problem. I see you don't assign Michelle Obama any responsibility for her "inflammatory language regarding racial politics" (If, in fact, that's what the thesis contains), instead you are content to place the blame on those who might "parrot" it.

Hmmm...maybe you missed the part where I said that I wish they HAD released it?

I had two points beyond that, however. 1) It was written from her perspective as a minority female student on a very much predominantly white campus, and therefore may well have been more harsh in it's views of racism and it's prevalence in society than she now believes, but would barely be able to get a word in edge-wise because of 2) the ridiculous way "gotcha!" politics is played in this country right now, PARTICULARLY by the extreme right wing of your party.

Again, I think the campaign chickened out on this because windbags in the media would have made it a MUCH bigger deal than it should be. I disagree with their decision not to release it, but that doesn't mean I don't understand why they didn't.

And if Cindy McCain had written a racist paper in college...it would make me think very poorly of Cindy McCain. Period.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I'd be interested what her opinions from her unique perspective were. Who am I to judge what her experience was, but I think it might be a fascinating read. If there are contraversial remarks, I really don't see it turning into anything to sway voters. So what if some far right-wingers try to turn it into more. Chances are it would backfire on them anyway. I am not comfortable with the "secrecy" aspect though that is being hinted at. Letting it out the day after the election seems sketchy.

BTW, this crap of questioning anything about the Obama's turning into, "Oh this is so sad that it's being turned into a race issue " is going to wear real thin in a BIG hurry for me.

 

[bsnyder]

Hmmm...maybe you missed the part where I said that I wish they HAD released it?

I had two points beyond that, however. 1) It was written from her perspective as a minority female student on a very much predominantly white campus, and therefore may well have been more harsh in it's views of racism and it's prevalence in society than she now believes, but would barely be able to get a word in edge-wise because of 2) the ridiculous way "gotcha!" politics is played in this country right now, PARTICULARLY by the extreme right wing of your party.

Again, I think the campaign chickened out on this because windbags in the media would have made it a MUCH bigger deal than it should be. I disagree with their decision not to release it, but that doesn't mean I don't understand why they didn't.

Again, it sounds like you're placing blame on everyone and everything BUT Michelle Obama. For something she wrote.

And if Cindy McCain had written a racist paper in college...it would make me think very poorly of Cindy McCain. Period.

And it might make some people think poorly of Michelle Obama. Hence, the embargo. And the fact that they've choosen to do that makes me think even more poorly of the Obama folks than anything she may have actually written.

 

[bsnyder]

BTW, this crap of questioning anything about the Obama's turning into, "Oh this is so sad that it's being turned into a race issue " is going to wear real thin in a BIG hurry for me.

It already has, for me. November is a long ways off. *sigh*

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'd be interested what her opinions from her unique perspective were. Who am I to judge what her experience was, but I think it might be a fascinating read. If there are contraversial remarks, I really don't see it turning into anything to sway voters. So what if some far right-wingers try to turn it into more. Chances are it would backfire on them anyway. I am not comfortable with the "secrecy" aspect though that is being hinted at. Letting it out the day after the election seems sketchy.

BTW, this crap of questioning anything about the Obama's turning into, "Oh this is so sad that it's being turned into a race issue " is going to wear real thin in a BIG hurry for me.

This clearly is a race issue. If the title of the thesis wasn't about race, nobody would be digging for it-as witnessed by the complete lack of interest in whatever Cindy McCain wrote while she was at USC.

 

[frndshpcptn]

Relevent how? Are you saying people should base their vote on something the candidates wife wrong on college 20 years ago, or you aren't. If it isn't something to base a vote on, how is it relevant?

I think people should look at the whole picture of a candidate when they vote. To me, that includes the spouse as long as the spouse has put themselves out these are part of the candidate's political process. I'd look at their choice of senior staff, strategists, etc to see who they are as people and make sure that not only the values of the candidate, but the values of the people he chooses to listen to and surround himself (or herself) with reflect what I want to see in the overall picture of the leadership role of my country.

In Michelle's case, I have no belief that she will just go along to the White House and dissapear - never to be heard from again. I think she will champion for her causes and I'd like to have a sense of who she is before I vote to put her on the biggest stage in the world to voice her beliefs. The First Ladies of the past 50+ years have been public-facing. That's not a new trend.

And yes, I think by voting for him and I am also voting for everyone he brings with him to Washington.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

This clearly is a race issue. If the title of the thesis wasn't about race, nobody would be digging for it-as witnessed by the complete lack of interest in whatever Cindy McCain wrote while she was at USC.

Clearly it is in your opinion. Don't assume what my interest is. There will be plenty of things drawn out about candidates that I consider a waste of time and energy, but obviously others will have a desire to know. Whatever. I am not going to spend my time assuming that they have some sinister agenda.

 

[bsnyder]

This clearly is a race issue. If the title of the thesis wasn't about race, nobody would be digging for it-as witnessed by the complete lack of interest in whatever Cindy McCain wrote while she was at USC.

You are wrong. There was similar interest in Hilary Clinton's thesis, when she was the candidate's spouse in 1992. The Clintons chose to use the same supressionist tactics as the Obamas. And her topic was not about race.

 

[wvrevy]

Again, it sounds like you're placing blame on everyone and everything BUT Michelle Obama. For something she wrote.

And it might make some people think poorly of Michelle Obama. Hence, the embargo. And the fact that they've choosen to do that makes me think even more poorly of the Obama folks than anything she may have actually written.

There is no blame to go on her for what she wrote. You are ASSUMING that there is. All I stated was that it may be seen as "inflammatory" nowdays, and I can understand why the first black man with a real chance at the presidency doesn't want something like that out there. You'd have Rush and his empty ditto-heads out there calling Barack a Black Panther for the next 8 months.

It already has, for me. November is a long ways off. *sigh*

Was gonna answer this, but:

This clearly is a race issue. If the title of the thesis wasn't about race, nobody would be digging for it-as witnessed by the complete lack of interest in whatever Cindy McCain wrote while she was at USC.

 

[lilyv]

20 year old college papers from a spouse aren't remotely relevant to me. There are plenty of issues in 2008 that I find important to our country's future.

If you're worried about a conspiracy, though, just vote for someone else. Huckabee, McCain, Clinton...lots of choice available.