Just home, my thoughts

[JanaDee]

Bingo! When threads get as long as this one, I usually read them diagonally. This, however caught my attention because I agree 100% with the poster. At the price people are paying for their Disney vacations, they should not have to lower their expectations. In general, we work very hard for our vacations, and it's normal to expect to get what you pay for. Lowered expectations, IMHO, lead to lowered standards, and that (to me) is not acceptable. Realistic expectations, however, are what's needed to make a vacation more enjoyable. Just my 2 cents worth.

I think guests are seeing lowered standards in many areas.

 

[cakebaker]

What did you do before 1999????, because I still remember standing in line to ride space mountain for 2 hrs in June, July, August, September many many times.

We never stood in lines that long back then, but only because we wouldn't. We skipped past them and waited the the line to die down, or did them early or later at night. I have an old picture somewhere with my sister standing in front of the wait time sign at Space Mountain showing a 60 minute wait. I remember the details because I snapped the picture after a long discussion on what our wait time limits were. Her's were longer than mine and she rode. So yeah, lines with no fp of any kind were long- even back in 1987.

I'm sorry the OP was disappointed with the meet and greet. It's difficult when a part of your trip that you looked forward to so much is disappointing- whatever the reason for it is.

 

[flicx]

I think guests are seeing lowered standards in many areas.

Record attendance and only one A and E meet and greet. This screams lowered standards!

 

[Planogirl]

Heck, I'd even prefer shopping.

Or dining.

Bingo! When threads get as long as this one, I usually read them diagonally. This, however caught my attention because I agree 100% with the poster. At the price people are paying for their Disney vacations, they should not have to lower their expectations. In general, we work very hard for our vacations, and it's normal to expect to get what you pay for. Lowered expectations, IMHO, lead to lowered standards, and that (to me) is not acceptable. Realistic expectations, however, are what's needed to make a vacation more enjoyable. Just my 2 cents worth.

I worry about a downward spiral. It's gradual but that is what I see now.

 

[cakebaker]

Bingo! When threads get as long as this one, I usually read them diagonally. This, however caught my attention because I agree 100% with the poster. At the price people are paying for their Disney vacations, they should not have to lower their expectations. In general, we work very hard for our vacations, and it's normal to expect to get what you pay for. Lowered expectations, IMHO, lead to lowered standards, and that (to me) is not acceptable. Realistic expectations, however, are what's needed to make a vacation more enjoyable. Just my 2 cents worth.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[JimmyV]

I worry about a downward spiral. It's gradual but that is what I see now.

I don't know if it is a continuous downward spiral, or if this is just a particularly bad time to spend so much money on a WDW vacation. Many of the people who post here are annual guests and have been for some time. To the extent that this is true, then we have definitely seen a tremendous downturn over the past 7-10 years. DHS is evaporating before our eyes. I don't care who you are or what side of any "good/bad" debate you are on, you cannot make a credible argument that DHS is a better park now than it was in 2009. And what of Epcot? Wonders of Life closed in 2007 and sits empty. Maelstrom is gone now. Test Track was "re-Imagined". Honey I shrunk the Kids was taken out in 2010. ImageWorks sits largely intact on the second floor of the Imagination pavilion, but cut off from guests. And during this time of erosion, nothing has been added. Not one thing. Again, I am not suggesting that Epcot is a bust now. But it cannot be argued that Epcot is better now than it was in 2007. So as people who go every year or nearly so, I think a lot of the "lost magic" comes from the fact that WDW is simply not as good a place in 2015 with construction all around and empty buildings and pavilions, as it was in 2007. We expect things to improve over time, not deteriorate. The past several years have presented massive closures and construction walls. What has been added during that time? New Fantasyland. (At the cost of Toon Town). An improvement? I would say "yes". But on balance, when you look at all the parks in the aggregate, NFL does not make up for what has been taken away, and the despair that arises when one sees empty spaces and buildings that are now reserved for "special events". Wasn't Epcot a better place with Cranium Command than it is with an empty pavilion that gets used for Food and Wine? Wasn't DHS a better park when the Hunchback show was running at a theater that now sits empty 350 days a year? It is one thing to retire attractions such as "Sounds Dangerous" or "Superstar Television" or "American Idol" or "Backlot Tour". But to have those spaces sit empty? Will one see a "loss of magic" or have fewer things to do? Of course.

But that brings me to the downward spiral. There are improvements being made. If a substantial Star Wars presence is added to DHS, that park will again be worth the price of admission. If Avatarland knocks our socks off, then Animal Kingdom will be worth more than an 8:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. visit. The Great Movie Ride may make a big comeback. I don't know what the future holds, but I will predict that a WDW vacation in 2020 will be better than one now. And a WDW vacation in 2007 was better than it is now. So that puts us in a trough. I certainly hope it is just a trough. But either way, given what a WDW vacation costs, it is worthy of serious consideration whether 2015 (or 2016) is the best time to go. I know that it isn't for me. I have not skipped WDW for 2 consecutive years since it opened in 1971. But I am prepared now to wait out this lull and focus on 2017 (or later). I can't help but think about WDW in its prime (which for me, was the 2005-2010 period). I don't think that there is any chance that I wouldn't be disappointed in a trip now, when I compare it to then. So rather than go again now, spend money, and leave thinking: "It just isn't as good as it used to be", I will spend my money elsewhere and go back at a time when I am confident that WDW is back in the saddle and running on all engines. Right now, it is not.

 

[RogueKnits]

We never stood in lines that long back then, but only because we wouldn't. We skipped past them and waited the the line to die down, or did them early or later at night. I have an old picture somewhere with my sister standing in front of the wait time sign at Space Mountain showing a 60 minute wait. I remember the details because I snapped the picture after a long discussion on what our wait time limits were. Her's were longer than mine and she rode. So yeah, lines with no fp of any kind were long- even back in 1987.

I'm sorry the OP was disappointed with the meet and greet. It's difficult when a part of your trip that you looked forward to so much is disappointing- whatever the reason for it is.

I can remember being there for Rope Drop and then running back to Space Mountain, then criss-crossing the park to hit the headliners before the lines got long.

Do you remember what meet and greets were like before they started the structured ones? I have tons of pictures of myself with characters along with a few other random kids because everyone just kind of formed a semi-circle/mob around them when they appeared and you jumped in when you saw an opening. There was not the level of personal interaction that you get now--it was pretty much jump in, get your picture/autograph and move along. I was a shy kid, so I would have much rather had today's system of orderly lines for meet and greets, although I doubt my parents would have let me wait in an A&E-style line for them.

 

[cakebaker]

Do you remember what meet and greets were like before they started the structured ones? I have tons of pictures of myself with characters along with a few other random kids because everyone just kind of formed a semi-circle/mob around them when they appeared and you jumped in when you saw an opening. There was not the level of personal interaction that you get now--it was pretty much jump in, get your picture/autograph and move along. I was a shy kid, so I would have much rather had today's system of orderly lines for meet and greets, although I doubt my parents would have let me wait in an A&E-style line for them.

I do remember- my girls were not used to having to be competitive to get something and were very shy in unfamiliar situations so they missed a lot of character meetings. The only time they got character meets was when we lucked out and just ran into them before anyone else noticed. It wasn't long before people got completely out of control. I wish it could've been better because those times we did that were amazing- but it got to the point of being unsafe for everyone.

I'm very glad we don't have to deal with that with my grandson. The interaction is much better when it's scheduled and planned. I suspect it's much more fun for the kids as well. Although I dread the day if they start an Olaf meet n greet. I am incredibly grateful he has no interest in princess meets.

 

[tmbacon]

This is a really great post even though it makes me a bit sad. We'll be at WDW starting March 12th for DS#2's 9th birthday, and also to check out Spring Training via a Braves/Tigers game. We're going with the grandparents, who haven't been back since the time of WDW's "peak" which JimmyV talks about, in the '05-'10 era. We were at WDW last time in Spring '13 (w/out the grandparents) and I definitely noticed a change on that last trip. For us, it's two-fold: 1) our children are just a bit older now, and don't have interest any more in things like character greets, parades, etc; so in that sense, some of the 'magic' of those early childhood experiences at WDW are gone for us (but we're willing to give it another go this trip and see how things pan out); 2) couple that with the perceived decline in quality at WDW, and I'm not really sure what to expect. I'm almost afraid to see what the grandparents' reactions will be; at 70+ years' old, with their first experiences at Disney occurring in their 30's, they may be in for a surprise this time around and I truly, truly hope the magic isn't gone for all of us.

 

[grimley1968]

I don't know if it is a continuous downward spiral, or if this is just a particularly bad time to spend so much money on a WDW vacation. Many of the people who post here are annual guests and have been for some time. To the extent that this is true, then we have definitely seen a tremendous downturn over the past 7-10 years. DHS is evaporating before our eyes. I don't care who you are or what side of any "good/bad" debate you are on, you cannot make a credible argument that DHS is a better park now than it was in 2009. And what of Epcot? Wonders of Life closed in 2007 and sits empty. Maelstrom is gone now. Test Track was "re-Imagined". Honey I shrunk the Kids was taken out in 2010. ImageWorks sits largely intact on the second floor of the Imagination pavilion, but cut off from guests. And during this time of erosion, nothing has been added. Not one thing. Again, I am not suggesting that Epcot is a bust now. But it cannot be argued that Epcot is better now than it was in 2007. So as people who go every year or nearly so, I think a lot of the "lost magic" comes from the fact that WDW is simply not as good a place in 2015 with construction all around and empty buildings and pavilions, as it was in 2007. We expect things to improve over time, not deteriorate. The past several years have presented massive closures and construction walls. What has been added during that time? New Fantasyland. (At the cost of Toon Town). An improvement? I would say "yes". But on balance, when you look at all the parks in the aggregate, NFL does not make up for what has been taken away, and the despair that arises when one sees empty spaces and buildings that are now reserved for "special events". Wasn't Epcot a better place with Cranium Command than it is with an empty pavilion that gets used for Food and Wine? Wasn't DHS a better park when the Hunchback show was running at a theater that now sits empty 350 days a year? It is one thing to retire attractions such as "Sounds Dangerous" or "Superstar Television" or "American Idol" or "Backlot Tour". But to have those spaces sit empty? Will one see a "loss of magic" or have fewer things to do? Of course.

But that brings me to the downward spiral. There are improvements being made. If a substantial Star Wars presence is added to DHS, that park will again be worth the price of admission. If Avatarland knocks our socks off, then Animal Kingdom will be worth more than an 8:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. visit. The Great Movie Ride may make a big comeback. I don't know what the future holds, but I will predict that a WDW vacation in 2020 will be better than one now. And a WDW vacation in 2007 was better than it is now. So that puts us in a trough. I certainly hope it is just a trough. But either way, given what a WDW vacation costs, it is worthy of serious consideration whether 2015 (or 2016) is the best time to go. I know that it isn't for me. I have not skipped WDW for 2 consecutive years since it opened in 1971. But I am prepared now to wait out this lull and focus on 2017 (or later). I can't help but think about WDW in its prime (which for me, was the 2005-2010 period). I don't think that there is any chance that I wouldn't be disappointed in a trip now, when I compare it to then. So rather than go again now, spend money, and leave thinking: "It just isn't as good as it used to be", I will spend my money elsewhere and go back at a time when I am confident that WDW is back in the saddle and running on all engines. Right now, it is not.

Responding to the parts I bolded, I totally agree. Maelstrom, for example, wasn't for everyone, but it was a popular ride for a large number of guests. They could have done a refurb to keep it up to date and keep it in operating order. I wouldn't mind at all if they had added a Frozen attraction to EPCOT in one of those empty buildings. Instead they're gutting Maelstrom in favor of Frozen, making that building just another useless building to guests until it re-opens as Frozen, which won't be anytime soon. They removed the Viking history mini-museum from the Stave Church. They also removed popular entertainment from EPCOT such as Off Kilter, which wasn't my favorite but was popular with many others and reduced lines at other attractions. The replacement lumberjacks will probably never have that effect. They removed the Fife & Drum Corps with no replacement. Maybe they weren't wildly popular, but we sure loved them and it fit the America Pavilion to a tee. EPCOT has gotten increasingly depressing over the years with all the closed buildings with no apparent plans to repurpose them. But WDW has compounded that by removing many of the little things previously mentioned in that park that in recent years served to alleviate that depressing feeling. In EPCOT alone just since our last visit in October 2013, two of our favorite things, Maelstrom and the Fife & Drum Corps, are gone and will have no replacement by the time of our next scheduled trip in October of 2015. Another of our perennial favorites, Spaceship Earth, which we used to ride repeatedly sometimes (just circling around and getting right back on), now often features 15 minute or longer standby lines and an FP line, which will be new to us. "Lost magic" indeed.

As you mentioned, much the same thing is happening at DHS, though WDW will supposedly try to address that problem with Star Wars. Star Wars is going to have to be a mega-blockbuster addition to offset what they've removed and not replaced, not only in the "lost magic", but simply in just having the same amount of things to keep guests occupied as they had in 2007. I'm hoping you're right that WDW will be a better place in 2020 than now, but unfortunately I have to agree that WDW is not as nice a place now as it was just a short number of years ago.

 

[Cormoran]

What has been added during that time? New Fantasyland. (At the cost of Toon Town). An improvement? I would say "yes". But on balance, when you look at all the parks in the aggregate, NFL does not make up for what has been taken away, and the despair that arises when one sees empty spaces and buildings that are now reserved for "special events".

According to Jim Hill, on the Unofficial Guide Podcast, NFL was about increasing the park capacity. NFL has allowed disney to pack 5,000 more guests into the MK before reaching capacity. The only issue they have now is the MK parking lot is too small to accommodate the additional guests. That's the reason the Richard Petty Driving Experience is closing. It will become another parking lot for the MK. The MK hub construction is also to accomodate increased capacity.

 

[JimmyV]

They removed the Viking history mini-museum from the Stave Church. They also removed popular entertainment from EPCOT such as Off Kilter, which wasn't my favorite but was popular with many others and reduced lines at other attractions. The replacement lumberjacks will probably never have that effect. They removed the Fife & Drum Corps with no replacement. Maybe they weren't wildly popular, but we sure loved them and it fit the America Pavilion to a tee. EPCOT has gotten increasingly depressing over the years with all the closed buildings with no apparent plans to repurpose them.

No doubt, if one makes a list of attractions, pavilions, entertainers, etc. from 2005-2010 and a similar list as to what is available now, there simply is no comparison. It is one thing for people to say "change happens...get over the old stuff". That is fine, if there is actual change as opposed to erosion. What replaced the fife and drum corp? What replaced Wonders of Life? What replaced the Ziti Sisters. What replaced the living statues? What replaced Miyuki and her candy creations? The list goes on. If people don't think that the loss of these "atmospheric" attractions doesn't cause an erosion of "magic", then people don't truly understand what makes WDW so special.

 

[tmbacon]

Really, they got rid of Fife & Drum Corps?? Oh this is a dark, dark day for me......we LOVED them!

 

[grimley1968]

Really, they got rid of Fife & Drum Corps?? Oh this is a dark, dark day for me......we LOVED them!

Yes, and as JimmyV pointed out, that's the tip of the iceberg of things lost with no replacement anytime soon.

 

[DisneyFive]

I don't know if it is a continuous downward spiral, or if this is just a particularly bad time to spend so much money on a WDW vacation.

Not quoting your whole post, but I'm not sure it could have been said any better.

Add FP+ and it's complexities to your post, and there you have the whole enchilada. We are in a trough, and I fully agree that this is a low point in recent years. 2010 is still our best yet, by a significant margin, but it was also our first visit.

At least HS appears to be rebuilding and rebranding itself as a park, so I have some patience there. We absolutely LOVE HS, and can't wait to see what it's going to turn into. (Hopefully Star Wars land and more) I have no excuse for Epcot though. The constant decline and closures over the years is just baffling. Case in point, there are only TWO RIDES that legitimately need a FP. TWO! Soarin and Test Track. AK is on it's way to becoming much more than it is now, so that's something to look forward to. Once the HUB construction is complete, I think MK is going to be at the top of it's game for quite some time. SO much to do and enjoy there.

With the age of our kids, I'm not giving up a 2015 WDW vacation, but to be honest, who knows how long it will be before we make it back after this year. We took a family cruise (non Dis) last year rather than WDW and everyone LOVED it. No qualms about doing that for a while instead.

Dan

 

[Tinkerdreams]

I am going to try to be an optimist on this one. Since WDW will be celebrating it's 50th anniversary in 2021, I'm hoping that Disney "pulls out all the stops" and makes improvements to each of it's parks that will reflect the true Disney magic!!

 

[DopeyforDonald]

I think I must just look at things differently. Yes things have been taken away, yes spaces are empty, yes it's crowded, and yes it's expensive.

But....I still tear up at wishes and at the beauty and the beast show, I still get the butterflies in my stomach when the pilot announces we've landed in orlando, the happy feeling when the bus driver says 'welcome home' and that horrible sick feeling when I know it's my last day and I won't be back for a year.

As long as I keep feeling all those things then it will always always be worth the price and I will still keep going.

Obviously everyone sees things differently so I can understand why some would be disappointed but right now I can honestly say I haven't ever been disappointed by WDW

 

[JimmyV]

I am going to try to be an optimist on this one. Since WDW will be celebrating it's 50th anniversary in 2021, I'm hoping that Disney "pulls out all the stops" and makes improvements to each of it's parks that will reflect the true Disney magic!!

I think that there is every reason to believe that 2021 will be a good (and crowded) year to go!

 

[Fastpassminus]

That, in particular, is SO devastatingly disappointing, considering how much attention to guest satisfaction was
historically practiced.

Truth. It is so so so easy to have another " friend" of A&E in another room behind them doubling the amount of people who can see them in a day. The line would split at some point. No little ones would be the wiser. Instead they are choosing to create more and more Frozen hysteria ( which is a working really well for them since Frozen is the most successful Disney film ever) by limiting the supply.

It's the same as when they had very limited inventory of Frozen toys, and dresses and clothing when the film first came out. They used the excuse that they didn't expect the hysteria, but after about a month it could have easily been fixed. Rather they chose to prolong the issue. Supply and Demand.

In my hometown at least there must be about 3 " Ice Queen and Sister" meet and greets a season. Openings of new stores, fundraiser breakfasts, birthday parties etc. DS has met them at so many of these events since the last time we were " in the World" last May that it won't be as exciting this time. I would almost rather skip the feeding frenzy and just meet an " off brand" Elsa at home.

 

[JimmyV]

I think I must just look at things differently. Yes things have been taken away, yes spaces are empty, yes it's crowded, and yes it's expensive.

But....I still tear up at wishes and at the beauty and the beast show, I still get the butterflies in my stomach when the pilot announces we've landed in orlando, the happy feeling when the bus driver says 'welcome home' and that horrible sick feeling when I know it's my last day and I won't be back for a year.

As long as I keep feeling all those things then it will always always be worth the price and I will still keep going.

Obviously everyone sees things differently so I can understand why some would be disappointed but right now I can honestly say I haven't ever been disappointed by WDW

A very valid point. But when people say: "I can't put my finger on it, but it just wasn't the same...just not as good as I remember", there is a good chance that the person making that statement went to WDW in its prime. Such comparisons are natural, and in this instance, I think, valid. If you went to WDW between 2005-2010, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you viewed the "then" versus "now". Especially at DHS and Epcot. (And Downtown Disney, and Pleasure Island).

 

[erij11]

I agree with a previous poster that this is a great thread. I'm just chiming in to say I'm really sorry that so many posters don't get the same feeling or value at WDW any longer, especially the OP. I agree that it is a very expensive vacation and the parks are extremely crowded. I visited for the very first time with my family in July 2014 (the week after the 4th, at that) and had a complete blast so I'm extremely glad I don't have the past trips to make comparisons. DH (I had to practically drag him along) enjoyed FP+ because he got to stay at the resort and sleep in while the rest of us did rope drop. I made our FP+ resevations for the evenings when DH joined us so even he had a good time. It looks like unless Disney makes some changes, a lot of changes, this is the Disney of now. For me, it is like you never miss what you never had. It was hot, crowded, tour groups were all over the place cutting lines and the like, one afternoon was a complete washout causing some of us to lose a park day, but we are going back again this year during the same week. It is the only time that works for our school schedule. I do look forward to DD15 finishing HS in 2017 so that we can go in the off-season, even though I hear there really isn't an off-season anymore. At least it won't be crazy hot like July.