Just back, really aware of changes on the handling of disabled guests

[A Mickeyfan]

One thought I have is the guests using wheelchairs, ECVs, walkers, etc. are very visible to the CMs besides having been told to stay to one side so we were all grouped together in the stretching room. Even then, there were 4 groups when we went the last time. We were kind of widely spaced and the last group was slow gathering their party. The CM was in front of the first guests, so the rest of us were just following along at a distance from the CM, hoping we were following the path we were supposed to be on because we could not see the CM or the first group.
Guests with invisible special needs look just like other guests in the dark, so on e they are in the room, the CM may have no idea who needs assistance unless they have something visible like a mobility device or a white cane. I wonder if it would work for them to give those 'invisible' guests something that glows in the dark as they come into the building and first make their needs known to the CM. Maybe a card on a lanyard, similar to the red ones they use for wait times. They could be different in some way to mark the needs - like does the guest need to board at the unload area; will the guest board on the 'regular' boarding area, thru a back door, etc. Those would stay with the guest and could be collected by the CM at boarding. Something like that could prevent the invisible guest from being 'lost' in more ways than one.

So you see how dark it is and for those with low vision, it is a real danger to them I think your idea is a great one as far as having some sort of special pass showing it, but I wonder if it really would work. My GAC states low vision, it is highlighted in bright yellow. It also has Alternative Entrance stamped on it. I do tell the CM's at the very front entrance, I tell the CM at the door of the dark holding room, and then I skp the stretching room.....and well, you have seen from my posts what I have gone thru even with all of that. I have not been back to the HM since early January. I do plan on going there the second week of March so I will see how it goes then. Like I said, you have a great idea, but in reality, if they aren't looking at what I have on my GAC, I wonder if they will look at what is on a special pass...

 

[Figmificent]

Just back and we had a LOT of trouble with the new handicap bus line at the magic kingdom. We stayed at POFQ, and when we went to WL their handicapped line made more sense... you went through the que to the gate and then there was an area for the chairs to wait. At the POFQ stop it puts you behind a pole with a planter on it. The bus drivers could not see me! Thankfully I was not traveling alone and my DH told them I was there. Also, at one point I could not get far enough through the que to get to the handicap gate before they loaded regular guests, which they then stopped doing to load me in the middle. Seemed pretty weird and rather unsafe!

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

So you see how dark it is and for those with low vision, it is a real danger to them I think your idea is a great one as far as having some sort of special pass showing it, but I wonder if it really would work. My GAC states low vision, it is highlighted in bright yellow. It also has Alternative Entrance stamped on it. I do tell the CM's at the very front entrance, I tell the CM at the door of the dark holding room, and then I skp the stretching room.....and well, you have seen from my posts what I have gone thru even with all of that. I have not been back to the HM since early January. I do plan on going there the second week of March so I will see how it goes then. Like I said, you have a great idea, but in reality, if they aren't looking at what I have on my GAC, I wonder if they will look at what is on a special pass...

First of all I hate for this to sound rude at all but do you have someone like a friend or Family member that can come with you to assist you when you ride the hunted mansion. I'm only asking this as what you are asking may not always be possible because of what the Previous poster said about them having a limited number of cast members working the attraction and not having one available all the time to guide guest through the hall ways.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

First of all I hate for this to sound rude at all but do you have someone like a friend or Family member that can come with you to assist you when you ride the hunted mansion. I'm only asking this as what you are asking may not always be possible because of what the Previous poster said about them having a limited number of cast members working the attraction and not having one available all the time to guide guest through the hall ways.

You are not sounding rude at all, you just don't know my situation I live just 3 hours from Disney. I go very often, and there are many times that I drive up alone (yes during the early daylight hours). I stay over night for maybe 2 nights if it's along weekend off, if not, just on Saturday night. I don't always have someone with me. What do you propose, I not go? I have friends who live in Orlando. They do try to meet me, they cannot always meet me, again, do you propose that I not go on the HM? Why, because I am not able to do so alone. Again, you weren't being rude, but to have someone always be with me is just not possible. I am paying good money to go to the theme parks, I should (and legally) be able to go on all the attractions, just as those in wheelchairs must be able to physically get to the loading dock areas, I must legally be able to as well. According to the ADA guidelines, if they cannot provide an alternative entrance for the guest, they are suppose to have an employee guide them to their destination (just as when a restaurant cannot provide a Braille menu, they are supposed to have staff read it to you, of which I make no quams asking form someone to read me the menu if the lighting is not good) . Disney has dropped the ball on this one.

First off, Disney is lumping all guests together.. and it seems they are only really going for the wheelchair guests in the HM. They are forgetting this guideline....

§ 35.151 New construction and alterations.

(iii) If providing accessibility in conformance with this section to individuals with certain disabilities (e.g., those who use wheelchairs) would be structurally impracticable, accessibility shall nonetheless be ensured to persons with other types of disabilities, (e.g., those who use crutches or who have sight, hearing, or mental impairments) in accordance with this section.

Disney is now forcing all to go thru the dark holding room because the standard line is now wheelchair accessible. They have forgotten about the other disabilities when making this change. Sight and mental impairments would fall under the no can do the dark room.... yet they are made to do it. So while going the old route might have been dangerous (as Disney said) to those in the wheelchairs, it wasn't to those with the vision or mental disabilities, therefore making the old route the accessible route for those guests.

Having a guest enter a dark holding room alone, then proceeding down a dimly lit hall, again alone is not following proper ADA guidelines at all. A dark room for those with vision disabilities is not an accessible route

206.2.9 Amusement Rides. Amusement rides required to comply with 234 shall provide accessible
routes in accordance with 206.2.9. Accessible routes serving amusement rides shall comply with
Chapter 4 except as modified by 1002.2.
206.2.9.1 Load and Unload Areas. Load and unload areas shall be on an accessible route.
Where load and unload areas have more than one loading or unloading position, at least one
loading and unloading position shall be on an accessible route.


Disney has opened up that dark room and stretching room so those in the wheelchair can experience it.. they should not force those that cannot safely access it to go through there. They still end up taking the wheelchair guest outside to the unloading dock. Where is the safety issue? Do you see my point... and again.. sorry this looks like I am attacking you, I am not. I am just showing you that those like me have a right to access an attraction, alone.. we don't have to rely on our family or friends to always be with us..

and no offense to you, but if you made that suggestion here to someone in a wheelchair (" all but do you have someone like a friend or Family member that can come with you to assist you when you ride the hunted mansion") , they would be jumping all over you.. again, you are not being rude.. like I said, you did not realize my situation. I have mentioned before in my posts that I do go alone..

 

[dclfun]

You are not sounding rude at all, you just don't know my situation I live just 3 hours from Disney. I go very often, and there are many times that I drive up alone (yes during the early daylight hours). I stay over night for maybe 2 nights if it's along weekend off, if not, just on Saturday night. I don't always have someone with me. What do you propose, I not go? I have friends who live in Orlando. They do try to meet me, they cannot always meet me, again, do you propose that I not go on the HM? Why, because I am not able to do so alone. Again, you weren't being rude, but to have someone always be with me is just not possible. I am paying good money to go to the theme parks, I should (and legally) be able to go on all the attractions, just as those in wheelchairs must be able to physically get to the loading dock areas, I must legally be able to as well. According to the ADA guidelines, if they cannot provide an alternative entrance for the guest, they are suppose to have an employee guide them to their destination (just as when a restaurant cannot provide a Braille menu, they are supposed to have staff read it to you, of which I make no quams asking form someone to read me the menu if the lighting is not good) . Disney has dropped the ball on this one.

First off, Disney is lumping all guests together.. and it seems they are only really going for the wheelchair guests in the HM. They are forgetting this guideline....

§ 35.151 New construction and alterations.

(iii) If providing accessibility in conformance with this section to individuals with certain disabilities (e.g., those who use wheelchairs) would be structurally impracticable, accessibility shall nonetheless be ensured to persons with other types of disabilities, (e.g., those who use crutches or who have sight, hearing, or mental impairments) in accordance with this section.

Disney is now forcing all to go thru the dark holding room because the standard line is now wheelchair accessible. They have forgotten about the other disabilities when making this change. Sight and mental impairments would fall under the no can do the dark room.... yet they are made to do it. So while going the old route might have been dangerous (as Disney said) to those in the wheelchairs, it wasn't to those with the vision or mental disabilities, therefore making the old route the accessible route for those guests.

Having a guest enter a dark holding room alone, then proceeding down a dimly lit hall, again alone is not following proper ADA guidelines at all. A dark room for those with vision disabilities is not an accessible route

206.2.9 Amusement Rides. Amusement rides required to comply with 234 shall provide accessible
routes in accordance with 206.2.9. Accessible routes serving amusement rides shall comply with
Chapter 4 except as modified by 1002.2.
206.2.9.1 Load and Unload Areas. Load and unload areas shall be on an accessible route.
Where load and unload areas have more than one loading or unloading position, at least one
loading and unloading position shall be on an accessible route.


Disney has opened up that dark room and stretching room so those in the wheelchair can experience it.. they should not force those that cannot safely access it to go through there. They still end up taking the wheelchair guest outside to the unloading dock. Where is the safety issue? Do you see my point... and again.. sorry this looks like I am attacking you, I am not. I am just showing you that those like me have a right to access an attraction, alone.. we don't have to rely on our family or friends to always be with us..

and no offense to you, but if you made that suggestion here to someone in a wheelchair (" all but do you have someone like a friend or Family member that can come with you to assist you when you ride the hunted mansion") , they would be jumping all over you.. again, you are not being rude.. like I said, you did not realize my situation. I have mentioned before in my posts that I do go alone..

Just noting that Disney does not legally have to provide access to those in wheelchairs either. I cannot transfer, hence I cannot ride the HM. There is nothing they can do about it unless they redesign the ride vehicles to accommodate a power wheelchair. I don't expect to ride everything. That said, they should have someone to assist Guests with low and no vision more appropriately. I'm assuming that it would be a substantial burden for them though to have to pay a CM to be there ONLY for that purpose, otherwise attraction CM's who are rotated through different parts of the attraction could be in a different area when you need them or on a break, etc.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Just noting that Disney does not legally have to provide access to those in wheelchairs either. I cannot transfer, hence I cannot ride the HM. There is nothing they can do about it unless they redesign the ride vehicles to accommodate a power wheelchair. I don't expect to ride everything. That said, they should have someone to assist Guests with low and no vision more appropriately. I'm assuming that it would be a substantial burden for them though to have to pay a CM to be there ONLY for that purpose, otherwise attraction CM's who are rotated through different parts of the attraction could be in a different area when you need them or on a break, etc.

What you say is true to some extent. They don't have to provide it if the cost is too great on the existing attractions. However, if the cost is not too great and there is a viable way to provide it, they must, legally must do it. They are not altering any structure, they are not adding or removing any cars in the attraction for an alternative entrance for those with low vision (or anyone who cannot do the dark room) That is when what you state comes into play.

When it boils down to entering the HM, they had the entrance to where you did not have to access the dark holding room and now have taken that away. They do not have to structurally alter any portion of the bldg to have this back to the way it was. Designing the standard line to be wheelchair accessible was due to the majority of complaints from those in wheelchairs who wanted to experience the stretching room and were not able to by the way the alternative entrance was. I see nothing wrong with having it both ways. They can have those in the wheelchair who want to experience the stretching room, go thru the standard line. Those of us who have the vision, or those who have a mental disability and cannot experience the dark room or stretching room should have the option to walk down as we once did. We can walk down unaided (as they have us do anyway inside) along the outside walkway, then back into the bldg and meet where they have the wheelchair guests exiting the stretching room. It would not consist of another CM's salary and it would be safer for those involved.

The way they have me going now, I end up back outside alone anyway They don't have a CM guiding me down the hall and back outside, along the walkway, then back inside the bldg to come up around where the wheelchair guests exit out of the stretching room. Why can't I just start out down there? I don't mind waiting the wait time it stats on the cue line. I do mind not being able to see where I am going and having to feel my way alone. If I fall and hurt myself would Disney say, "this entrance is for your safety"? do you see my point in what I am saying? It won't cost anything to do this, not even a salary for a CM as they don't provide assistance now for us to do that walk from inside to outside. Why can't we just start out, outside It really is not a safety issue as they do have us out there anyway..and alone at that...

 

[dclfun]

What you say is true to some extent. They don't have to provide it if the cost is too great on the existing attractions. However, if the cost is not too great and there is a viable way to provide it, they must, legally must do it. They are not altering any structure, they are not adding or removing any cars in the attraction for an alternative entrance for those with low vision (or anyone who cannot do the dark room) That is when what you state comes into play.

When it boils down to entering the HM, they had the entrance to where you did not have to access the dark holding room and now have taken that away. They do not have to structurally alter any portion of the bldg to have this back to the way it was. Designing the standard line to be wheelchair accessible was due to the majority of complaints from those in wheelchairs who wanted to experience the stretching room and were not able to by the way the alternative entrance was. I see nothing wrong with having it both ways. They can have those in the wheelchair who want to experience the stretching room, go thru the standard line. Those of us who have the vision, or those who have a mental disability and cannot experience the dark room or stretching room should have the option to walk down as we once did. We can walk down unaided (as they have us do anyway inside) along the outside walkway, then back into the bldg and meet where they have the wheelchair guests exiting the stretching room. It would not consist of another CM's salary and it would be safer for those involved.

The way they have me going now, I end up back outside alone anyway They don't have a CM guiding me down the hall and back outside, along the walkway, then back inside the bldg to come up around where the wheelchair guests exit out of the stretching room. Why can't I just start out down there? I don't mind waiting the wait time it stats on the cue line. I do mind not being able to see where I am going and having to feel my way alone. If I fall and hurt myself would Disney say, "this entrance is for your safety"? do you see my point in what I am saying? It won't cost anything to do this, not even a salary for a CM as they don't provide assistance now for us to do that walk from inside to outside. Why can't we just start out, outside It really is not a safety issue as they do have us out there anyway..and alone at that...

Nope...I agree. I figure they'll iron out their policies soon enough as they figure out who they have affected by the changes and what to do about it.

 

[North of Mouse]

Seems like driving with low vision would be very dangerous on most highways. Before you say anything, I know the rules, each state is different, and that you are allowed to drive in daylight hours. But, however, seems if you feel safe enough to do that, you would be able to navigate a small darkened hallway "slowly". Disney tries hard, and seems to do a good job, on accommodating most people's needs, but if it means hiring an extra person just for a few people to be guided, they probably wouldn't do it. Most people do have others with them to assist - not too many going it alone if they're not able to navigate the rides that can used by wheel chairs. This has just been my observation.

 

[Disneykidsdad]

We visited DAK this past Saturday and DHS yesterday. Fortunately I saw no abuse, had no trouble getting the GAC I needed and had wonderful CM's who took me personally back to the SD break area that was behind a gate at DHS. I actually felt that I got more care and attention than ever in the past. We were a party of 7 including a 2 year old and used the card only once. I really don't recall if it was scrutinized but my disability is very apparent and no one tried to use the card without me since that is not allowed anyway. We didn't use the busses, but the "guest medical parking" was totally full at DHS by noon so my party had quite the hike from the parking lot where we were allowed to park on the end. The parking attendant had put up a cone so no one parked next to my lift. All in all, I was impressed with the actions of all the CM's that we came in contact with over the past two days and it really made the short trips to the parks enjoyable.

dclfun,

I just noticed your pic of Skye on the "poop deck" of the Dream. What type of box was that? And what was inside it? We have cruised three times on the Magic and Wonder with our daughter and her service dog and have always had a "kiddie pool" filled with sod on our veranda. We have an Alaska cruise booked for 2013 and we were hoping for the pool and sod.

 

[dclfun]

dclfun,

I just noticed your pic of Skye on the "poop deck" of the Dream. What type of box was that? And what was inside it? We have cruised three times on the Magic and Wonder with our daughter and her service dog and have always had a "kiddie pool" filled with sod on our veranda. We have an Alaska cruise booked for 2013 and we were hoping for the pool and sod.

It was sod, thankfully! I think the round kiddy pool we usually get wouldn't fit on that narrow verandah. Skye hated it because of the clear plexi plus she couldn't circle around and feel safe- she kept realizing her butt was not over the tray! Also I think she felt she could fall off. She managed though. On the Dream when we had an inside stateroom they found a great place for the sod tray- it was the same one that we had on the verandah- no round kiddy pools on the Dream.

 

[dclfun]

This makes absolutely no sense at all. How is driving in daylight the same as walking through a dark hallway? Do you have ANYTHING helpful at all to offer to the conversation, or are you just back to tell people they DON'T need accomodations? That seems to be the only reason why you're posting on this thread.

Seeing to drive in the daylight is totally different than walking through a dark hallway. The issue is DARKNESS and not having the vision to see in the dark. As to travelling with a companion, while it might be feasible for some, I know I value my independence and often visit the parks without someone else. No one should be forced to give up their independence unless they feel unsafe being alone. Again, hoping that Disney has recognized the problem and that they're working on a viable solution.

 

[Beccabunny]

Seeing to drive in the daylight is totally different than walking through a dark hallway. The issue is DARKNESS and not having the vision to see in the dark. As to travelling with a companion, while it might be feasible for some, I know I value my independence and often visit the parks without someone else. No one should be forced to give up their independence unless they feel unsafe being alone. Again, hoping that Disney has recognized the problem and that they're working on a viable solution.

Exactly, that is my point. I'm just tired of seeing these threads fall apart when someone with no experience with a particular disability comes here to tell others they don't need an accommodation. And I would be insulted if someone told me to bring a companion.

I am really beginning to think WDW has not made some of the recent changes in response to abuse, but rather as a reaction to all those people who complain because they think the disabled are getting some extra advantage.

 

[Disneykidsdad]

It was sod, thankfully! I think the round kiddy pool we usually get wouldn't fit on that narrow verandah. Skye hated it because of the clear plexi plus she couldn't circle around and feel safe- she kept realizing her butt was not over the tray! Also I think she felt she could fall off. She managed though. On the Dream when we had an inside stateroom they found a great place for the sod tray- it was the same one that we had on the verandah- no round kiddy pools on the Dream.

Thanks for the info. I'm so glad they are still using sod. I think we will have room on our veranda on the Wonder next year. We are in cabin 7136 on the back of the ship. Looking at the deck plan, it looks like a large veranda.

 

[1girln3boys]

jmartinez1895, you posted that "even if your girls were running around 5 min. ago, that doesn't mean they can walk'. Say what? If I were a CM that's exactly what I would wonder. How could they do that and not walk? These kinds of things people are facing were bound to happen because there was so much out right abuse to the system. We've seen people in a group (that's a lot how you see them) take turns riding in a wheel chair with none of them having issues when they were walking. Disney has caught a lot of flack from not just treating everyone equal, but putting handicapped first. When people are all tired, some holding sleeping babies, tempers can flair fast when abuse is seen. So the ones that truly need extra assistance are scrutinized more closely now for that reason. Everyone has rights, none above the other, so some are feeling it more keenly now (even if they deserve it) because sometimes the CM's can't tell by how the person is acting, and may tend to over react because they are being taught to be watchful. Here's hoping the ones that truly need the assistance will be able to receive it courteously.

For my son yes he could be up running around and 5 min later not able to walk without his legs hurting. I've seen him push him self to the point that he couldn't move his legs at all

 

[1girln3boys]

Thanks, Sue. As someone with a handful of invisible disabilities, I so agree. I know how it is difficult for someone who is not living in my body to understand how I might seem "fine" one minute and not the next. Even some members of my extended family "don't get it." But it doesn't change the fact that it is true.

Since I had to stop driving, (and depend on family for rides to my many doctor appointments,) they are starting to understand a little better!

Piper from reading old posts after searching for NF1 I see that you have the same thing that me and my kids do.

 

[smidgy]

apparently my vision impaired hubby can figure out quoting and such better than I!

 

[smidgy]

Seems like driving with low vision would be very dangerous on most highways. Before you say anything, I know the rules, each state is different, and that you are allowed to drive in daylight hours. But, however, seems if you feel safe enough to do that, you would be able to navigate a small darkened hallway "slowly".

there was so much I didn't know about vision until I met my husband. and then, after I learned so much, I realized how little most people know about vision (and the lack thereof)

day and night are as different as..um..DAY and NIGHT! and even thought the GAC does not require explanation to all the CMs at the attractions, it would help if some of them at least knew what some of these limitations are.

those of us with normal vision just don't get how much difference light can make in a person's vision. and most people don't understand many vision problems. to them, it is just a matter of 20/40 , or 20/60. etc.
I can't here give everyone a cram course in opthalmology, a deep study of retinas, what exactly is a Macula?, or vitreal detachments,retinal detachments, wet vs. drymacular degenreation, avastin, etc etc.
leave it said that there are MANY variations of visual problems, defects, disablilities, imporvements, advancements, that the majority of the popluation knows nothing about. and therefore CANNOT judge whether or not they can drive, and if so, whether or not they can walk through dark passageways, or what special accomodations they might need for certain rides and/or attractions at WDW. (even those with disabilities themselves are in no position to judge another's disabilities)
and the GAC does not, in ANY sense, require explanation to any people in the standby line,( but it would help if some would try to to understand.)


(example: I didn't understand about the wheelchair/ECV line at the bus stops. I didn't get why they couldn't just wait in line until the rest of their party, in the regular line, reached the front.. Katieelder explained it so I could understand. now I get it.)

the needs of people with low vision vary greatly.. depending on the person, their visual problems, the time of day, the clouds, etc etc.

my husband is the BEST driver in the world, ..during the day. ok, I may be biased, but if you had read his most recent trip report, you would have to agree. one example we had a blowout while in the left lane on I57, going past a semi, with a pick-up barreling down on us, and he managed to slow down just enough to get the pickup to back down and slowly get behind the semi, slowly g over to the right, without rolling our suv over..

but at night.. nope. so he can drive great in the day, but not get himselthrough the line At tower of terror. even though I don't ride, I go with and lead him through the line, and meet up with him at the end.. (and boy! don't the people behind us get irritated cause it might take a few extra minutes to walk ahead to the point whe you have to stop anyway!!!!)

to some people, everything is black and white, no grey areas. you are either blind, or you're not. you can either walk, or you cant'. you either have stamina, or you don't.

these people are wrong.

 

[smidgy]

jmartinez1895, you posted that "even if your girls were running around 5 min. ago, that doesn't mean they can walk'. Say what? If I were a CM that's exactly what I would wonder. How could they do that and not walk?

this is why people aren't requiredto explain to the attraction CM what their disability is (unless they feel a need to, to better help their situation). it was already determined at guest services .. the attraction Cm only needs to know anything else if it would further help the guest with the GAC.
and the other guests waiting in line have no "priviledge" to know the situation.

 

[dclfun]

Yes! Once an appropriate GAC has been issued at Guest Services then it should be followed and not judged by anyone. Who knows what invisible disabilities someone else has or what accommodation someone else needs? It is not always "one size fits all".

 

[dclfun]

Yes! Once an appropriate GAC has been issued at Guest Services then it should be followed and not judged by anyone. Who knows what invisible disabilities someone else has or what accommodation someone else needs? It is not always "one size fits all".