Just back, my FP+ feedback

[wisblue]

I guess everyone tours differently, I don't know the last time we stayed in one park for the whole day. We hop every day!

We're the same way. Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing.

If we get to a park at opening (which we almost always do, even if that means 7 AM EMH over the holidays) we aren't going to plan to stay there for 12 hours or more. We need to get away for a rest or at least a break from the parks. When it's really hot out, we may even take a dip in the pool or take a shower and change clothes. When we return to a park (usually a different one) in the late afternoon or early evening, I always feel a lot better than if I had stayed in one park all day.

 

[wisblue]

You need to let that idea go. Folks are already saying how RD has changed dramatically. When FP+ starts almost immediately, you're crazy if you think the days of having a couple hours of short standbys will continue.

I once hit an E ticket at all four parks in a day. Really, almost ALL of them. I know what could be done. But there is no way FP + doesn't fundamentally change RD like it is everything else.

I really can't see how anyone can honestly think FP + is improving something unless you like paying for a day of park entry just to people watch, and maybe catch a ride or two.

Jason

I disagree with this opinion too. While there will be people who have FP+ in that first hour, they may be offset (or more than offset) by people who might have otherwise arrived at opening but now come a little later because they have their FP+ reservations.

And, the approach of arriving early and doing as much as possible, taking a break in the middle of the day, and using FP+ in the evening (possibly in a different park) has been cited by many other posters as to what they intend to do.

We will be doing a lot more than people watching and "catching a ride or two". We will be enjoying our day at the resort as much as we always have, and maybe more because of being able to use FP+ in the evening.

 

[wisblue]

All parks around the world (I've been to probably 100 or so), have strategies that allow you to maximize your fun. RD is a critical part of ALL of them.

Visiting on a non-Saturday or non-busy day is also a universal requirement.

Problem is, FP+ essentially makes ALL but the absolutely dead days busy days. Since they always bribe people into their rooms, they run pretty high occupancy rate. If they have an 80%+ occupancy on any given day, with FP+, you won't be getting many big rides in. The math hasn't changed, and is still horrible.

25,000 rooms times 3 people per room times 3 FP+ times 80% = 25,000*3*3*.8 = 180,000 FP+

Major rides that historically had long lines:
MK - Splash, BTMRR, Space, and (NEW) (Likely highly overrated) Kiddie Mine ride
EP - TT, Soarin
DS - Tower, RnRC, TSMM
AK - Everest, Safari

That's 11 rides. Each one averages a very optimistic 1500 people an hour. Take 12 hours, at 100% FP+ availability, you get 198,000.

The observant reader will note that 180,000 is pretty darn close to 198,000, and probably close enough, taking downtime and other factors into consideration.

This means everyone could theoretically ride all the BIG rides at the park they are visiting. HOWEVER, that assumes park attendance ratios with major ride availability. It does not, and that is why I assume EP, DS, and AK will ALL be tiered and you will only get ONE major ride per day, and the other two rides will be only available via long standby wait.

That means that even a Monday in early May will have very limited access to the E tickets. However, a Monday in May at any other park open then will be a VERY good day to get lots of short wait rides.

You will also note that this is for a 12 hour day. Occupancy drops as park hours do, but not proportionally, so the "off season" won't have better availability.

OH, AND REMEMBER, THIS IS ONLY FOR DISNEY RESORT GUESTS!!! And since they only compose about half of a days attendance, all of these numbers, as horribly as they look, are actually twice as good as reality!!!

Oh, and I forgot Peter Pan

This isn't opinion, it is the math behind the atrocity that is FP+.

(Universal, feel free to hire me as a consultant)

Oh, and I would LOVE to see the math where FP+ will be giving me more than what I get now. I will not accept "it moves people to other rides, decreasing standby on others" as an answer, since it is essentially unprovable.

Jason

Before you try to get Universal to hire you as a consultant, you might want to think about the most obvious flaw in your reasoning.

You have listed what you see as the major attractions in all of the parks. What you are totally ignoring is that there are a lot of people who visit WDW that have no interest in riding some, and in some cases almost all, of these attractions. Because of height restrictions, fear of various types of motion, "been there, done that", or whatever, not everyone is competing for the same slots on the same attractions as you are.

There are families with children who may spend their whole day riding the "kiddie rides" , visiting characters, and going on other lesser attractions. They will enjoy their days as much as or more than you will without ever getting in your way. When our kids were small, they enjoyed their rides on the carousel, IASW, and Dumbo as much as you enjoy your multiple rides on Space Mountain. And we enjoyed sharing those experiences with them, just like Walt Disney envisioned when he sat on a bench watching his daughters ride the merry go round.

No matter what FP system you use (including no FP at all) the capacity of the rides is the same for the same number of park hours. If the overall park crowd is the same, the total demand for an attraction is also going to be the same.

I think everyone agrees that the people who are going to be affected negatively by FP+ are those that like to ride the headliner attractions you listed multiple times per day. But, you have to recognize that those people (who are very visible and vocal on these boards) represent a small percentage of the people who are in the park each day.

If riding every headliner attraction multiple times is essential to your enjoyment of a Disney park, then you have to visit at the least busy times or skip WDW altogether. But, you aren't going to convince me that FP+ is bad for everyone (or even the majority of WDW visitors) and that it's going to limit us to "a ride or two a day".

 

[Shaden]

We've never been park hoppers, but I would think FP+ would improve park hopping. Rope drop 1st park, hit headliners standby until lines build (and if possible again with childswap an FP-). Park hop to 2nd park with 3 FP+ ready to go in the afternoon. Am I missing something? Sure the old days of paper FP without enforcable return times were the best, but short of returning to that, I don't see how FP+ devalues park hopping much, may even improve it.

You need to let that idea go. Folks are already saying how RD has changed dramatically. When FP+ starts almost immediately, you're crazy if you think the days of having a couple hours of short standbys will continue.

I once hit an E ticket at all four parks in a day. Really, almost ALL of them. I know what could be done. But there is no way FP + doesn't fundamentally change RD like it is everything else.

I really can't see how anyone can honestly think FP + is improving something unless you like paying for a day of park entry just to people watch, and maybe catch a ride or two.

Jason

I disagree with this opinion too. While there will be people who have FP+ in that first hour, they may be offset (or more than offset) by people who might have otherwise arrived at opening but now come a little later because they have their FP+ reservations.

And, the approach of arriving early and doing as much as possible, taking a break in the middle of the day, and using FP+ in the evening (possibly in a different park) has been cited by many other posters as to what they intend to do.

We will be doing a lot more than people watching and "catching a ride or two". We will be enjoying our day at the resort as much as we always have, and maybe more because of being able to use FP+ in the evening.

Yea, again this is just another example of someone not being able to extrapolate how the system will work when its 100% rolled out. Its pretty clear that FP+ is going to dramatically going to change Rope Drop, people have already reported some big changes, even when testing groups have increased and not even all onsite guess as well as NO offsite guests are on FP+.

There are still going to be plenty of people who are still going to do RD, yes some of them MIGHT offset by people booking later in the day FP+s, but that's only going to be SOME. The "walk in" crowds will still be lighter in the morning, and there will still be -some- advantage to going first thing. As well, lets face it some people are just morning people, or their KIDS are morning people, RD is still going to be busy.

But, FP+ is going to increase attendance at RD, it already has. We had reports a couple weeks ago of people talking about headliners with late evening return times by 9am .... in LOW season.

FP+ is going to FORCE some people into early morning FP+s. The VAST majority of people are going to try booking FP+s for 12pm - 5pm. But they are going to be gone, fast. You don't even need all those FP+s to be gone, you just need the headliners to be gone for that period, people will follow the headliner availability. Add in the Disney auto-select of FP+s for anyone who books online, and RD is going to be busier than ever, with FP availability lower than ever.

And while people can talk about flexibility and the ability to change FP+s day of etc during their testing, that's just not going to exist when the system is used by everyone in the park.

 

[Shaden]

Before you try to get Universal to hire you as a consultant, you might want to think about the most obvious flaw in your reasoning.

You have listed what you see as the major attractions in all of the parks. What you are totally ignoring is that there are a lot of people who visit WDW that have no interest in riding some, and in some cases almost all, of these attractions. Because of height restrictions, fear of various types of motion, "been there, done that", or whatever, not everyone is competing for the same slots on the same attractions as you are.

There are families with children who may spend their whole day riding the "kiddie rides" , visiting characters, and going on other lesser attractions. They will enjoy their days as much as or more than you will without ever getting in your way. When our kids were small, they enjoyed their rides on the carousel, IASW, and Dumbo as much as you enjoy your multiple rides on Space Mountain. And we enjoyed sharing those experiences with them, just like Walt Disney envisioned when he sat on a bench watching his daughters ride the merry go round.

No matter what FP system you use (including no FP at all) the capacity of the rides is the same for the same number of park hours. If the overall park crowd is the same, the total demand for an attraction is also going to be the same.

I think everyone agrees that the people who are going to be affected negatively by FP+ are those that like to ride the headliner attractions you listed multiple times per day. But, you have to recognize that those people (who are very visible and vocal on these boards) represent a small percentage of the people who are in the park each day.

If riding every headliner attraction multiple times is essential to your enjoyment of a Disney park, then you have to visit at the least busy times or skip WDW altogether. But, you aren't going to convince me that FP+ is bad for everyone (or even the majority of WDW visitors) and that it's going to limit us to "a ride or two a day".

While you are correct that there are people who wont want to ride "headliners" as such ... his numbers actually include less than half the people in the parks each day, especially in busier season.

 

[rastuso]

Before you try to get Universal to hire you as a consultant, you might want to think about the most obvious flaw in your reasoning.

You have listed what you see as the major attractions in all of the parks. What you are totally ignoring is that there are a lot of people who visit WDW that have no interest in riding some, and in some cases almost all, of these attractions. Because of height restrictions, fear of various types of motion, "been there, done that", or whatever, not everyone is competing for the same slots on the same attractions as you are.

There are families with children who may spend their whole day riding the "kiddie rides" , visiting characters, and going on other lesser attractions. They will enjoy their days as much as or more than you will without ever getting in your way. When our kids were small, they enjoyed their rides on the carousel, IASW, and Dumbo as much as you enjoy your multiple rides on Space Mountain. And we enjoyed sharing those experiences with them, just like Walt Disney envisioned when he sat on a bench watching his daughters ride the merry go round.

No matter what FP system you use (including no FP at all) the capacity of the rides is the same for the same number of park hours. If the overall park crowd is the same, the total demand for an attraction is also going to be the same.

I think everyone agrees that the people who are going to be affected negatively by FP+ are those that like to ride the headliner attractions you listed multiple times per day. But, you have to recognize that those people (who are very visible and vocal on these boards) represent a small percentage of the people who are in the park each day.

If riding every headliner attraction multiple times is essential to your enjoyment of a Disney park, then you have to visit at the least busy times or skip WDW altogether. But, you aren't going to convince me that FP+ is bad for everyone (or even the majority of WDW visitors) and that it's going to limit us to "a ride or two a day".

So, you think that the people wanting headline rides represent a small percentage of those who are at the park?

Then who takes all the FPs in a few hours? Who is in the 90 minute Splash standby line?

Your argument makes no sense. The actuality is that the people that pay hundreds of dollars to go to the MK to get some Princess pictures, and ride the dark rides are in the small minority. How do I know that? Well, it's again math. The dark rides, even with their very low throughput, still don't have lines all day, except for Peter Pan, which has VERY low throughput.

Same with Meet and Greets. I would guess the average character can see perhaps 200 people an hour, AT BEST. A few long visits, and that can plummet. Perhaps ALL the non-Mickey meet and greets combined equal an E-ticket in daily capacity.

So again, you are spouting nonsense. The rides are the main draw for almost everyone there. The characters and small rides are the icing on the cake. Problem is, Disney wants to start giving some people nothing but icing, and no cake. Some will love that, but they are DEFINITELY a small minority.

Maybe Disney is aiming at filling their resorts exclusively with old people and families with little girls, but I doubt it.

Jason

 

[ktlm]

I disagree with this opinion too. While there will be people who have FP+ in that first hour, they may be offset (or more than offset) by people who might have otherwise arrived at opening but now come a little later because they have their FP+ reservations.

I don't believe this is going to be true if they stick with the tiered system they now have for EPCOT or DHS (and which I expect to see implemented at the other parks). Now basically if FP- is taken away (such as for POP guests this week), I am limited to 1 FP per day, as the Tier 2 FPs are nothing we would ever need a FP for at the times of year we go (or pretty much any time of year except for Christmas Week and Spring Break). Currently with the old FP system, we would usually show up about 15-20 minutes after rope drop. Now, with tiers and no FP- I know that at EPCOT if I want to ride Test Track AND Soarin without standing in long lines, I'm going to have to get there pre-rope and book it over to one of them when the park opens because I can only get a FP+ for one or the other. It is the same with DHS for TSM and RNRR. In the past we would get there and grab Soarin and TSM fps which run out the fastest, knowing that when our next window opened up that TT and RNRR FPs would still be available- so we didn't rush. So now, with tiers and no FP-, we unfortunately will have to get there earlier. We no longer will have the luxury of pulling an RSR or TT FP later after our first window opens. We are now entirely precluded from FP that other ride, so we have to get there earlier to try to beat the rush if we don't want to stand in the long line. I think if the tiered system stays in place, you will see a lot of others doing the same thing. I agree with the PP that the morning rush is going to get worse not better. If the tiered system stays in place and FP- continues going away from more and more people- I see the standby lines building up a lot faster in the mornings.


Also for the poster questioning the FP+ for Illuminations and MSEP-- we had the opposite experience. Illluminations was great and MSEP was not so great. We also did the MK 3:00 parade and it was great. I firmly believe it entirely depends on how many people book FP+ on that date. At Illuminations, we got there about 15 minutes before it started, waited in no line, and got a front row spot easily. At the 3:00 parade, the front row never filled up and the CMs had to keep policing non FP+ people from coming under the rope right up until the parade started as their was a ton of room. We had lots of room to spread out and the angle and view were great! For MSEP, we got there abput 15 or 20 minutes before the parade started, and we were on the second row and could not see that well- there was also another line or two of people behind us. It was kind of worth it because sometimes it is hard even to get a 2nd row spot for MSEP, but if we had been on the 3rd or 4th row of people, we could have done that on our own right before the parade started on the route somewhere. It wasn't worth it for the people standing behind us. Whether you have a good experience in any of those depends on how many people they have in that section on any given day. If not that many people FP+ it that day, it will be great and well worth it. If it is jam packed that day, it will not be worth it at all. The bad thing is it is just a matter of luck- you can't plan it as there is no way to know whether everyone will happen to pick it that day.

 

[wisblue]

While you are correct that there are people who wont want to ride "headliners" as such ... his numbers actually include less than half the people in the parks each day, especially in busier season.

I'm not going to get into his numbers because I don't think they affect the overall conclusion.

The ride capacity for any ride, and any combination of rides, is a constant.

If you have the same number of people in the park, and the same number of hours for the park to be open, there will be the same amount of demand for each of these rides. It is a zero sum game; you can't get more people to ride the attraction more times, but you can get more people to ride once and fewer people to ride multiple times, and that's what I think the effect of FP+ will be.

The idea that FP+ is going to create longer standby lines all day at all attractions (including the headliners and the lesser attractions) makes no sense to me because there are only so many people who can be in lines at any given time.

 

[kmarie99]

We're the same way. Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing.

If we get to a park at opening (which we almost always do, even if that means 7 AM EMH over the holidays) we aren't going to plan to stay there for 12 hours or more. We need to get away for a rest or at least a break from the parks. When it's really hot out, we may even take a dip in the pool or take a shower and change clothes. When we return to a park (usually a different one) in the late afternoon or early evening, I always feel a lot better than if I had stayed in one park all day.

Must be

From what I have seen lately on the board discussing Disney (especially FP+) is like discussing Religion or Politics. You are never going to change people’s mind, if they are a Disney apologist they are going to stay that way and if they think everything Disney does is wrong they are going to stay that way.... all that happens is people end up angry or hurt. It is not worth it!

All I can say is that I am glad so many people are angry about FP+ and saying they are not going because of it, that means less people in front of me in line.

 

[wisblue]

I don't believe this is going to be true if they stick with the tiered system they now have for EPCOT or DHS. Now basically if FP- is taken away (such as for POP guests this week), I am limited to 1 FP per day, as the Tier 2 FPs are nothing we would ever need a FP for at the times of year we go (or pretty much any time of year except for Christmas Week and Spring Break). Currently with the old FP system, we would usually show up about 15-20 minutes after rope drop. Now I know that at EPCOT if I want to ride Test Track AND Soarin without standing in long lines, I'm going to have to get there pre-rope and book it over to one of them when the park opens because I can only get a FP+ for one or the other. It is the same with DHS for TSM and RNRR. In the past we would get there and grab Soarin and TSM fps which run out the fastest, knowing that when our next window opened up that TT and RNRR FPs would still be available- so we didn't rush. So now, with tiers and no FP-, we unfortunately will have to get there earlier. We no longer will have the luxury of pulling an RSR or TT FP later after our first window opens. We are now entirely precluded from FP that other ride, so we have to get there earlier to try to beat the rush if we don't want to stand in the long line. I think if the tiered system stays in place, you will see a lot of others doing the same thing. I agree with the PP that the morning rush is going to get worse not better. If the tiered system stays in place and FP- continues going away from more and more people- I see the standby lines building up a lot faster in the mornings.

I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, but to offer a different perspective.

You said that you usually arrive 15-20 minutes after RD. On an absolute scale, that is arriving early. If you arrive a little earlier, you aren't really changing the size of the crowd in the first two hours.

It has always been rule number 1 that arriving early is the best way to do the most attractions at WDW. And yet there are thousands of people who simply won't do that. Especially at busy times they missed out altogether on the biggest headliners or decided that they would rather wait in line for an hour or more than get out of bed a few hours earlier.

While you may decide to arrive 30 minutes earlier, there are undoubtedly some people who may have arrived early because they decided they needed to do that to do EITHER of the major headliners (much less both) who will now decide to trade one of those headliners for a few hours of additional sleep.

Only time will tell how all of these cross currents play out. But, human nature being what it is, I just don't see a dramatic increase in the number of people willing and able to arrive at a park before opening. If doing the most attractions with the least amount of waiting was their first priority, they would be arriving early already.

 

[Son of Gadsden]

Must be

From what I have seen lately on the board discussing Disney (especially FP+) is like discussing Religion or Politics. You are never going to change people’s mind, if they are a Disney apologist they are going to stay that way and if they think everything Disney does is wrong they are going to stay that way.... all that happens is people end up angry or hurt. It is not worth it!

All I can say is that I am glad so many people are angry about FP+ and saying they are not going because of it, that means less people in front of me in line.

This.

Wisblue, tip of the hat to you holding the line for the others side of the argument.

I don't enjoy arguing with brick walls. Can't do it but so long.

People don't want to learn from debating anymore. They want to be right.

Logic be damned.

 

[wisblue]

This.

Wisblue, tip of the hat to you holding the line for the others side of the argument.

I don't enjoy arguing with brick walls. Can't do it but so long.

People don't want to learn from debating anymore. They want to be right.

Logic be damned.

Thanks, but I'm not going to be doing much more of it either.

I never visited these boards that much, but started looking more often in the last few weeks as I prepared for two short trips, mainly to get information about how the MBs and FP+ were working.

I was amazed at how many people have convinced themselves that FP+, all by itself is going to turn their great Disney vacations into the equivalent of a prison sentence. At first, I hoped that offering some different opinions and perspectives might help people see that things might not be so bad after all if they just let things play out, but I can see that's a losing battle.

If people want to get themselves tied up in knots over this, I'm not going to be able to change them, and I'm not going to let it affect my short term plans.

Maybe I'm wrong and Disney is making a colossal mistake that will destroy the company. But, I'm not going to anticipate that before it happens.

 

[Robbi]

When you represent a significant portion of Disney's annual customer base, absolutley. Till then...

The poster does represent a signicant portion.

Before you try to get Universal to hire you as a consultant, you might want to think about the most obvious flaw in your reasoning.

You have listed what you see as the major attractions in all of the parks. What you are totally ignoring is that there are a lot of people who visit WDW that have no interest in riding some, and in some cases almost all, of these attractions. Because of height restrictions, fear of various types of motion, "been there, done that", or whatever, not everyone is competing for the same slots on the same attractions as you are.

There are families with children who may spend their whole day riding the "kiddie rides" , visiting characters, and going on other lesser attractions. They will enjoy their days as much as or more than you will without ever getting in your way. When our kids were small, they enjoyed their rides on the carousel, IASW, and Dumbo as much as you enjoy your multiple rides on Space Mountain. And we enjoyed sharing those experiences with them, just like Walt Disney envisioned when he sat on a bench watching his daughters ride the merry go round.

No matter what FP system you use (including no FP at all) the capacity of the rides is the same for the same number of park hours. If the overall park crowd is the same, the total demand for an attraction is also going to be the same.

I think everyone agrees that the people who are going to be affected negatively by FP+ are those that like to ride the headliner attractions you listed multiple times per day. But, you have to recognize that those people (who are very visible and vocal on these boards) represent a small percentage of the people who are in the park each day.

If riding every headliner attraction multiple times is essential to your enjoyment of a Disney park, then you have to visit at the least busy times or skip WDW altogether. But, you aren't going to convince me that FP+ is bad for everyone (or even the majority of WDW visitors) and that it's going to limit us to "a ride or two a day".

Uni is doing fine without a consultant.

 

[Son of Gadsden]

Thanks, but I'm not going to be doing much more of it either.

I never visited these boards that much, but started looking more often in the last few weeks as I prepared for two short trips, mainly to get information about how the MBs and FP+ were working.

I was amazed at how many people have convinced themselves that FP+, all by itself is going to turn their great Disney vacations into the equivalent of a prison sentence. At first, I hoped that offering some different opinions and perspectives might help people see that things might not be so bad after all if they just let things play out, but I can see that's a losing battle.

If people want to get themselves tied up in knots over this, I'm not going to be able to change them, and I'm not going to let it affect my short term plans.

Maybe I'm wrong and Disney is making a colossal mistake that will destroy the company. But, I'm not going to anticipate that before it happens.

Disney changes the fastpass system and gives people free bracelets.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Thanks, but I'm not going to be doing much more of it either. I never visited these boards that much, but started looking more often in the last few weeks as I prepared for two short trips, mainly to get information about how the MBs and FP+ were working. I was amazed at how many people have convinced themselves that FP+, all by itself is going to turn their great Disney vacations into the equivalent of a prison sentence. At first, I hoped that offering some different opinions and perspectives might help people see that things might not be so bad after all if they just let things play out, but I can see that's a losing battle. If people want to get themselves tied up in knots over this, I'm not going to be able to change them, and I'm not going to let it affect my short term plans. Maybe I'm wrong and Disney is making a colossal mistake that will destroy the company. But, I'm not going to anticipate that before it happens.

Some people just like to complain. Look at these boards at any given time, and something is causing angst. It's a hobby for some, and you're right, you won't change it.

 

[kmarie99]

Disney changes the fastpass system and gives people free bracelets.

Love It!!!!

That is how some people are treating it.

 

[nkereina]

Can I just ask in what way was the Illuminations FP a waste? I have one for Dec ! Thanks and thanks for yet another about changing FP's day of .Seems to me there is hardly any issues with that portion of the system.

You still need to get to the Illuminations FP area around 8:25 at the latest to get a good spot. The line to get in was long and the handheld scanners were malfunctioning quite a bit holding up the line. We got in with about 10 minutes to spare but were stuck behind the rose bushes. I wouldn't say our view was obstructed but we probably could have done the same on our own without FP. However, considering Epcot is doing the tiered FPs now, I might still choose illuminations if the other attractions in that group didn't warrant a FP.

That's great to hear that you could change TSMM FP+ times in mid November. I can't wait to do it in December. Jason

I was simply responding to OP who is here at the same time as me and reported he or she had issues changing day-of. I wasn't trying to offer up advice to the masses nor was I trying to brag that I've had no issues. No need to get snarky with me because you chose to go at a busy time.