Jungle Book 2 Thoughts Thread

[DisneyKidds]

Greg - I am most likely confusing my terminology and I apologize. However, the essence of what I am getting at is this. JB2 will never get the classic/gold/platinum/masterpiece/platinum/whatever distinction. In looking at what films have gotten that label - other than Rescuers Down Under and Fantasia 2000 it is only the full length original animated features. You won't find any Return to Neverland, JB2 - or any of the other direct to video sequels such as Return of Jafar, etc that are the equals of RTN and JB2. Don't you think Disney has always been aware of that?

Along with that, I do belive there has been a difference in how Disney has promoted RTN and JB2 - films which in the past would have gone direct to video. I could be wrong as it was just my perception. However, as I asked earlier, do you think that Disney promoted RTN and JB2 the same way they did the Little Mermaid, Lion King, Lilo and Stich and Treasure Planet?

So back to the question - was it a bad decision for Disney to release RTN and JB2 into theatres? What would have been best would have been for Disney to produce a high quality, original, full length animated feature at least once a year. Disney hadn't been doing that, and may have decided that wasn't feasible in the long run. Unfortunate and a bad decision. So, is it better to release the RTN's and JB2's, or nothig at all? (Gee, how similar is that to the question of developing new cutting edge shows or nothing at all if Burbank won't cut loose the funds for an E ticket ) I guess my answer would be to release JB2, your answer might be to release nothing at all.

When and if these "lesser" animated features stoop to the level of the Disney channels Saturday morning House of Mouse we will not be going. Likewise, when they start flying fast and furious we'll pass on a few. I doubt we'll see Piglet's Big Movie. As the Head has said, it is all a matter of everyone making a personal distinction.

Here is another question for everyone. Piglet's Big Movie is the next Disney animated theatrical release. For those who feel strongly against the release of JB2, this is just the next travesty in line - the next direct to video piece of garbage that Disney is trying to pass off as a real movie. It may very well be that and well discuss that in it's own thread most likely. However, I ask you this - what have you all heard about this movie? As much as many might think I am a blinded by the brand Disney zombie who will see any piece of trash that is out there that my kid wants to see - I was totally unaware of the Piglet movie until just now. Can anyone seriously say that Disney is advertising the Piglet movie to any major extent? Is Disney advertising this movie they way they advertised Lilo and TP? The answer is no. So why is that? I can only assume that it is because Disney knows it is not a high quality film, just like JB2, and is purposely downplaying the advertising. Thoughts?

 

[raidermatt]

If memory serves, gcurling is right. "Masterpiece", "Platinum", etc are all names slapped on certain films on the video side. I don't remember any term like this being used in the general marketing for TP, L&S, or any other recent theatrical release.

It doesn't matter if much of the public has no inclination to take note of the different types of animated films Disney releases.

Oh they take note of the different types of films, only they use terms like "great", "ok", and "that was weak". I really do understand your point about the marketing subtleties, but I think the only people in tune with these subtleties are the small percentage of people who really follow this stuff. The majority of the public just doesn't pick up on it. They know only that its a Disney animated theatrical release, just like Mermaid, Aladdin, and Mulan.

Yeah, they know its a sequel, but that alone doesn't really tell them anything about the quality. Especially when the only Disney animated sequel any of them saw was Toy Story 2.

The public does adjust its expectations based on recent releases. Mermaid, for all of the credit it gets today, 'only' grossed $84 million. Was it considered that much less appealing than Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin? Or did it pay a price for the drought in quality, appealing Disney animation?

Every RTN and JB2 that is released by Disney takes a toll on the next original release. Its a shortsighted money-grab, nothing more, and it comes at the expense of long term revenue.

 

[raidermatt]

I guess my answer would be to release JB2, your answer might be to release nothing at all.

I don't get this at all. Disney released two original "high quality" animated features in '02. L&S and TP. They have another scheduled for November '03. There's a Disney-Pixar release for this Summer.

In '01 it was Atlantis, and Monsters.

This isn't an all or nothing situation.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Sorry Matt, you are right. I was thinking more along the lines of traditional animation, and even at that Disney has been getting out one a year. As such, I guess there really hasn't been a need to go to the market with RTN and JB2. I hate to say it, but people should have been happy with the one full length traditional animated feature that Disney was putting out a year - but was that the case? I guess I kind of always saw a gap from 1999 thru 2001. Chances are RTN and JB2 were put in the works in that timeframe. Fantasia 2000 was not exactly original, and Groove and Atlantis just seem to get lost in the shuffle as they weren't hits for whatever reasons - even though they were higher quality productions than RTN and JB2. There go those personal perceptions again .

 

[HB2K]

Can anyone seriously say that Disney is advertising the Piglet movie to any major extent? Is Disney advertising this movie they way they advertised Lilo and TP? The answer is no. So why is that? I can only assume that it is because Disney knows it is not a high quality film, just like JB2, and is purposely downplaying the advertising. Thoughts?

So let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Disney is ashamed of the two products they've just released (Piglet & JB2) and they decided to tank both by not advertising them as they would any of their other products?

Where I work there is a LARGE sign hanging over the shipping dock which reads:

"If you're not proud of it, don't ship it."

Maybe Disney should find some executives who are proud of their work. Maybe then the company wouldn't have to be ashamed of their products and they could fully advertise them.

 

[raidermatt]

I hate to say it, but people should have been happy with the one full length traditional animated feature that Disney was putting out a year - but was that the case?

But I don't think the release of RTN and JB2 was the result of the public clamoring for more animated features from Disney. Rather, Disney saw an opportunity to get more revenue out of sequels that were already going to be made, and they are ignoring the long term negative impact this has on the brand. Further, it just further reinforces to the rank and file that standards will readily be compromised in the name of short-term profit.

Groove and Atlantis just seem to get lost in the shuffle as they weren't hits for whatever reasons - even though they were higher quality productions than RTN and JB2. There go those personal perceptions again

Understandable....but I still have to point out that Groove and Atlantis each nearly doubled RTNs box office take. So while we think of them as duds, they still have a wider appeal to audiences than these sequels do. Yet we know Groove and Atlantis are damaging to Disney's reputation with the public. What does that say about the damage being done by RTN and JB2, Piglet's Movie, and whatever comes next?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Disney is ashamed of the two products they've just released (Piglet & JB2) and they decided to tank both by not advertising them as they would any of their other products?

Ashamed might be a strong word. Furthermore, "deciding to tank" the movies might be a bit overstated as well. However, Disney isn't stupid - well, not about everything . It may have been a marginal decision to release these movies in the theatre, but they didn't want to complicate that by making any claims about these films being their greatest works. They know the public will recognize a difference, so they aren't going to make any grandiose claims regarding these movies - and they haven't.

"If you're not proud of it, don't ship it."

Yup - I get your point. It may have been better not have release these films in theatres. Disney makes some money doing it, but they may tarnish the rep.

Just so I am clear though, do you think Disney is giving Piglet the full blown advertising treatment? If not, why do you think they aren't. If you think they have, what have you been seeing? The movie comes out in a few weeks and I have seen next to no advertising.

 

[DisneyKidds]

What does that say about the damage being done by RTN and JB2, Piglet's Movie, and whatever comes next?

I agree with your point - hence my "I don't see a rosy picture for Disney animation if one wants it to be what it used to be" post from page 6 . A few good decision could change that, and I hope that happens.

OK - here you go, when it comes to the Disney drive-in I am sitting in Car #3.

 

[BRERALEX]

oh yeah and the dance number in King Loui's palace felt right out of 'cant wait to be king' from the "lion King" when all the animals climb on top of each other in a huge stack.....i feel better now

OK - here you go, when it comes to the Disney drive-in I am sitting in Car #3.

you cant be co-pilot with Baron driving we'll never get there.