Judge rules on Segway Fairness settlement

[ford family]

If you could use your privately owned Segway in WDW would you be required to have public liability insurance and how much would it cost?

ford family

 

[melancholywings]

As of July 2009, 44 states and the District of Columbia have enacted legislation to allow use of Segway PTs on sidewalks, bike paths, and certain roads. The laws differ from state to state, so it is important that potential purchasers and Segway PT users carefully review their state regulations and comply with any special requirements. (Many of these laws use the term "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device" or "Personal Motorized Mobility Device", which are generally defined so as to include Segway PT.) In most cases, state legislation gives local authorities the option of enacting additional laws about Segway PT use.

New York City, New York, San Francisco, California, Key West (Old Town section), Florida, and Sanibel Island, Florida, are several cities that have enacted a ban on Segways. Although the local bans cover the general public, these cities recognize the Segway as an ADA protected assistive mobility device and have specific language allowing persons with disabilities to continue to use their Segways in these cities.

How does public transportation accomidate them? Are they allowed to bring their Segway on the city bus? And where does it go? And is the Segway limited to strictly outdoor use - or in this cities do they use them inside to? Such as at a public library?

 

[Expert_Glider]

Federal Transit Administration – FTA – US Department of Transportation


The Department’s ADA rule (49 CFR Part 37, §37.3) defines a “wheelchair” as “a mobility aid belonging to any class of three or four-wheeled vehicles, designed for and used by individuals with mobility impairments...” (emphasis added). By this definition, a Segway is not a wheelchair. However, a Segway, when used by a person with a disability as a mobility device, is part of the broad class of mobility aids that Part 37 intends will be accommodated (see for instance §§37.5 and 37.165). In this way, a Segway occupies a legal position analogous to canes, walkers, etc.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

 

[melancholywings]

Federal Transit Administration – FTA – US Department of Transportation


The Department’s ADA rule (49 CFR Part 37, §37.3) defines a “wheelchair” as “a mobility aid belonging to any class of three or four-wheeled vehicles, designed for and used by individuals with mobility impairments...” (emphasis added). By this definition, a Segway is not a wheelchair. However, a Segway, when used by a person with a disability as a mobility device, is part of the broad class of mobility aids that Part 37 intends will be accommodated (see for instance §§37.5 and 37.165). In this way, a Segway occupies a legal position analogous to canes, walkers, etc.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

So they want them to be accomidated both in the park, on the bus and inside attractions or inside areas? Essentially anywhere a wheelchair is allowed to go?

 

[Expert_Glider]

So they want them to be accomidated both in the park, on the bus and inside attractions or inside areas? Essentially anywhere a wheelchair is allowed to go?

For people with a qualifying disability that use a Segway as their primary mobility device - yes.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

So they want them to be accomidated both in the park, on the bus and inside attractions or inside areas? Essentially anywhere a wheelchair is allowed to go?

For people with a qualifying disability that use a Segway as their primary mobility device - yes.

How does Disney legally determine that the use of a Segway has a qualifying disability and that the Segway is their primary mobility device? Asking a person would put Disney in violation of ADA.

This is why they take the position that they will not allow any two wheel vehicles.

 

[Expert_Glider]

Asking a person would put Disney in violation of ADA.

This is not correct. Disney can ask if the guest has a qualifying disability.

The ADA does not allow them to inquire further into the nature of their disability.

 

[Chuck S]

The preceding post listed a number of places where Segways are "banned" but you can still rent them In Key West for a tour of the Fort and on Sanibel Island for a tour of the Island at Billy's Bikes. There are tours in the other cities also. Bans can be manipulated so it is a business advantage.

This all reminds me of when snowboarding first started and it was banned from the ski areas until they found they could make money at it by requiring people to take a lesson or a test before they could ride the slopes. Now they are outnumbering the skiers at many if not most areas.

But, unlike snowboards, under ADA, you can NOT require someone who needs a mobility device to have a license or take a lesson. If you could come up with legal ways to insure that:

1)The segways would only be used by those that have been properly trained.

and

2) Disney could restrict the use to the slowest settings by somehow locking it in until the segway leaves the park.

Then I'd be more sympathetic to their use in the crowded parks.

But if a Segway rider barrels into someone on a higher speed, even though the Segway would stop, the force of momentum, coupled with the higher center of gravity, it would likely throw the rider into the object or person they've hit...a 150 pound adult body being flung into someone from that height, at 10 MPH or faster, could easily be fatal for an older person or child. That is the simple physics of an object in motion. While collisions happen with ECVs and electric wheelchairs, a seated rider is not normally thrown from their seat onto another person. And they have a lower maximum speed.

 

[MassJester]

For people with a qualifying disability that use a Segway as their primary mobility device - yes.

That is not correct. There is no provision of that regulation that requires any such device, of any shape or size to be accomodated. You are simply required to accomodate some such device.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

This is not correct. Disney can ask if the guest has a qualifying disability.

The ADA does not allow them to inquire further into the nature of their disability.

This is exactly the point I (and several others) have been trying to make all along.

If a person is asked "Do you have a qualifying disability?" and the answer given (not necessarily truthful) is yes Disney must then allow the use of the Segway. It is not so much the actually disabled but the people with the "me first" attitude who will lie to get their way.

And I have seen, in the past, a company that rented ECVs advertised something to the effect of "scoot all day, dance all night". If an offsite company will rent out Segways, all they need to do is thell the people to answer that question yes.

 

[Expert_Glider]

So the solution is a complete ban on Segways (even for those that really need them for mobility)?

 

[Chuck S]

So the solution is a complete ban on Segways (even for those that really need them for mobility)?

There is a difference between a need and a want. A need means they must have a device to provide mobility. A wheelchair or ECV, even the newer 4 wheel stand-up things Disney has available provide that mobility, don't they? I haven't seen any examples of a disability where the only device that could provide the mobility is a Segway.

Segway users simply want to use their device of choice, rather than use another device that would provide the mobility and be safer for ambulatory guests.

Have you seen some of the "Segway Wrecks" on youtube? Imagine the number of injuries if some of those happened in a crowded park. Some of them could be fatal, to both the Segway user and other guests.

If the issue truly is mobility, wouldn't it make more sense to use a device that both provides the mobility and better safety to all guests than a Segway?

 

[SueM in MN]

There is a difference between a need and a want. A need means they must have a device to provide mobility. A wheelchair or ECV, even the newer 4 wheel stand-up things Disney has available provide that mobility, don't they? I haven't seen any examples of a disability where the only device that could provide the mobility is a Segway.

Segway users simply want to use their device of choice, rather than use another device that would provide the mobility and be safer for ambulatory guests.

Have you seen some of the "Segway Wrecks" on youtube? Imagine the number of injuries if some of those happened in a crowded park. Some of them could be fatal, to both the Segway user and other guests.

If the issue truly is mobility, wouldn't it make more sense to use a device that both provides the mobility and better safety to all guests than a Segway?

I agree

when this lawsuit first came up a few years ago, on a board devoted to Segway use, I found a couple of threads where (mostly young guys) were making plans for how they would get their Segways into the park and how they would 'disguise' the fact that they were using the fastest key instead of the slower one. They even posted links to webstores that would make keys in whatever color the buyer wanted (so that a faster key could have the color related to a slower key). The posters all acknowledged thar they had no disability, just wanted to take their Segway into the parks.
If Disney allows any in, they would have to allow anyone who self-identifies with a disability to use one in the parks.

As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of problems associated with having a Segway in the parks - even if safety is not considered. The situation of bringing one into the parks is totally different than using one on a trail it a city sidewalk.

 

[Expert_Glider]

Just exactly how many people have been injured (or killed) by someone using a Segway as their mobility device?

Can the same be said for the rides at Disney?

 

[Chuck S]

Just exactly how many people have been injured (or killed) by someone using a Segway as their mobility device?

Can the same be said for the rides at Disney?

Judging from the fact that by 2006, they had sold a total of 23,600 units, likely a lot more Segway riders, percentage wise, have been injured than the percentage of the total of literally millions of WDW guests that have been injured by rides over the years.

 

[Expert_Glider]

There has not been a reported incident of a person with a qualifying
disability, using a Segway as a mobility device, causing injury to another person.

 

[Snipedog]

Now I kinda of understand why Disney is trying to prevent everysingle person from brinign in Segways to use in the parks. But on the other hand I can see the point of view of those who wish to use them. I am a Disabled Vet and I have suffered injuryies that limiI am also t my ability to walk long distances and unable to sit for long periods of time. I have used the Segways and have recieved training on how to use them. I know Disney is trying to offer there own version of them, but why should someone be required to have to pay for the use of a Disney Device when they have there own already. That is the same as telling someone who has there own ECV, sorry but we can not control how you drive your own so if you want to come in the park you have to rent ares for $40 each day.

 

[KYMickey]

So the solution is a complete ban on Segways (even for those that really need them for mobility)?

NOBODY NEEDS a Segway for mobility! Than they WANT one but there are other mobility solutions that will work for them. Yes, this same could be said for scooters (and maybe they should be banned also) but there certainly are other devices that will provide equal mobility for user of Segways.

 

[KYMickey]

Just exactly how many people have been injured (or killed) by someone using a Segway as their mobility device?

Can the same be said for the rides at Disney?

OK, we all no your stand on this issue but at least try to be sensible in your comparisons. Many of the rides at Disney have as many people riding them in an hour and there are Segway riders in total. Obviously, the numbers are not available but I'm quite sure the injury rate for Segways riders if well over 10 times greater than that of people riding rides at Disney!

 

[Chuck S]

There has not been a reported incident of a person with a qualifying
disability, using a Segway as a mobility device, causing injury to another person.

How would anyone know, including yourself? After all, were any of the obvious accidents on the Segways on Youtube actually reported, is there an "offical" reporting agency for Segways?

It also brings back the question...how do you know just which Segway users are using them for a medical mobility device, and who are using them for fun? How would Disney be able to tell?

It sounds like your efforts would be better spend trying to change the ADA to require some type of documentation, or limiting the sales and rental of Segways and any other powered medical device to those with documented disabilites.