Josie Brooklyn Duggar

[CdnCarrie]

their "friends" appear to me to be from families with the same phiolosophy as they have. I wonder if they would be allowed to have friends who wore pants and makeup???

The girls are "allowed" to wear pants but prefer skirts. Why do you care why someone on tv is wearing pants or a skirt?

And really they are friends with people with the same philosophy as them? Wow how highly unusual. Only in Arkansas!


Cousin Amy wears pants and wear makeup as does Jim Bob's sister and other family we have seen. As are the producer or soundman's daughters that come and play with the Duggar kids.

Most Amish and Hutterite women don't go on to further education or do they wear pants.

Hurry you better phone Family Services on them!! They are "abusing" their kids after all.


Any way back to the real reason for this thread.

Prayers for little Josie.

 

[princessmom29]

The main reason your OPINION does not matter, right now.
Is because this post was started for prayers for their new baby girl.

It was NOT STARTED to bash them, to even discuss their parenting beliefs, it was started so people would know their littlest one was born, extremly premature, and needed all the prayers she could get.

End of discussion.
If you don't like them, this is NOT the post to voice your concerns.

the title of the thread is "Josie Brooklyn Duggar". Not "prayer for Josie" or "support for the Duggars". Sorry for thinking I was allowed to have a dessenting opinion on the proported subject of the thread. End of discussion?? Not by a long shot.

As I have said multiple times I do feel for this child, and will be praying for her, but also for her siblings. They are in as much need of it as she is.

 

[princessmom29]

The girls are "allowed" to wear pants but prefer skirts. Why do you care why someone on tv is wearing pants or a skirt?

And really they are friends with people with the same philosophy as them? Wow how highly unusual. Only in Arkansas!


Cousin Amy wears pants and wear makeup as does Jim Bob's sister and other family we have seen. As are the producer or soundman's daughters that come and play with the Duggar kids.

Most Amish and Hutterite women don't go on to further education or do they wear pants.

Hurry you better phone Family Services on them!! They are "abusing" their kids after all.


Any way back to the real reason for this thread.

Prayers for little Josie.

Wow. That's all I can say. Wow. How in the world did you get any of that out of what I said???? Far be it for me to express a dissenting opinion. Yes I do believe that any group that subgugated women and limits the opition odf their daughters to stay at home mom is wrong. They say on the surface that they "allow" a lot of things, but can you honestly say you have ever seen one of their girls even attempt to wear a pair of pants???? They say it is allowed, but put such a negative connotation on it that none of the girls would dare to try it. That is what i think is wrong here, and while it is not considered "abuse" by a legal definiton. I still think denying these girls any chance at being anything but a wife and mother of 20 is wrong. I realize many disagree with that, but there is no need to attack me because you don't like what I am saying.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Wow. That's all I can say. Wow. How in the world did you get any of that out of what I said???? Far be it for me to express a dissenting opinion. Yes I do believe that any group that subgugated women and limits the opition odf their daughters to stay at home mom is wrong. They say on the surface that they "allow" a lot of things, but can you honestly say you have ever seen one of their girls even attempt to wear a pair of pants???? They say it is allowed, but put such a negative connotation on it that none of the girls would dare to try it. That is what i think is wrong here, and while it is not considered "abuse" by a legal definiton. I still think denying these girls any chance at being anything but a wife and mother of 20 is wrong. I realize many disagree with that, but there is no need to attack me because you don't like what I am saying.

I'm not attacking you.

No I have never seen the girls attempt to wear a skirt but neither have you. We only know what they say. So I don't think it's right that you are reading more into their words and expressing an opinion that is unsubstantiated.

Why would you assume that they are coached to say they can wear pants but behind the cameras are not allowed to? I don't get it?? I really don't. Where do you get that perspective from??

Jana has a car and a ton of pant wearing maternal aunts. She can leave and seek help if she feels she needs to I'm sure. Or Cousin Amy can sneak her out.

And when did they ever say that the girls have to be SAHM?

 

[princessmom29]

I'm not attacking you.

No I have never seen the girls attempt to wear a skirt but neither have you. We only know what they say. So I don't think it's right that you are reading more into their words and expressing an opinion that is unsubstantiated.

Why would you assume that they are coached to say they can wear pants but behind the cameras are not allowed to? I don't get it?? I really don't. Where do you get that perspective from??

Jana has a car and a ton of pant wearing maternal aunts. She can leave and seek help if she feels she needs to I'm sure. Or Cousin Amy can sneak her out.

And when did they ever say that the girls have to be SAHM?

Read the literature on the homeschool method they use, and listen to some of the earlier taped interviews where they are much more willing to talk about their beliefs. Michelle has said multiple times that they do not believe women are to work outside the home, and that they are subject to men in all things. I don't think they are necessairly coached on that issue, it is just that wearing pants has been protrayed as so negative to them that they would never dream of doing it even if it were allowed. Same with working outside the home. Michelle said both are "not what a woman should be doing". They are being taught, per Michelle's own statments, that God doesn't want women wearing pants or working outside the home. they are also being taught, again per Michelle, that women have no place in any kind of leadership role. Their home is their whole world. I don't think as a 16 year old girl I would be strong enough to make a choice that alienated me from my family and my church in that environment. They have been robbed of any choice in the matter by a lifetime of being taught that it was wrong. JUst because they are exposed in a superficial way to people that do it doesn't mean that they aren't taught that those people are doing something wrong.

 

[ebtbmom]

Wow, what an interesting thread. Since everyone else is sharing their 2 cents worth I want to too.

Does anyone think that it is incredibly hypocritical of society in general to tout "openmindedness" "tolerance" and "acceptance" of others and their lifestyles. This standard applies to those with alternative lifestyles as well as minority religions, however not to conservative Christians.

You would never criticize a Muslim family or homosexual couple like this for fear of being called out by the PC police. However, it seems like it's perfectly OK to judge and criticize them because they aren't mainstream Christians.

I think this is disguisting, and if we're going to be "tolerant" of other cultures and religions then why shouldn't this apply to very conservative people.

I say this as an outsider because I am an atheist, and even I see that this is how some Christians are treated. I watch the Duggars every week and they appear to have very happy, loved children. I admire Jim Bob and Michelle for raising such admirable kids in today's world.

 

[princessmom29]

Wow, what an interesting thread. Since everyone else is sharing their 2 cents worth I want to too.

Does anyone think that it is incredibly hypocritical of society in general to tout "openmindedness" "tolerance" and "acceptance" of others and their lifestyles. This standard applies to those with alternative lifestyles as well as minority religions, however not to conservative Christians.

You would never criticize a Muslim family or homosexual couple like this for fear of being called out by the PC police. However, it seems like it's perfectly OK to judge and criticize them because they aren't mainstream Christians.

I think this is disguisting, and if we're going to be "tolerant" of other cultures and religions then why shouldn't this apply to very conservative people.

I say this as an outsider because I am an atheist, and even I see that this is how some Christians are treated. I watch the Duggars every week and they appear to have very happy, loved children. I admire Jim Bob and Michelle for raising such admirable kids in today's world.

I would and have. I don't tolerate opperssion in any form. Any culture that subjugates any of its members is WRONG. ANY CULTURE!!!! That is my exact point. Believe what you want, but don't force anyone into submission.

 

[ebtbmom]

I would and have. I don't tolerate opperssion in any form. Any culture that subjugates any of its members is WRONG. ANY CULTURE!!!! That is my exact point. Believe what you want, but don't force anyone into submission.

There's a big difference in subjugating people and forcing them into submission, this isn't a cult!

Do you not agree that parents have a perfect right to teach their own children what they believe is right and to then expect a certain standard of behavior in their own home?

Thinking like this is dangerous and reminds me of the UN Rights of the Child convention which, in my opinion, comes dangerously close to the line of not allowing parents to parent.

 

[princessmom29]

There's a big difference in subjugating people and forcing them into submission, this isn't a cult!

Do you not agree that parents have a perfect right to teach their own children what they believe is right and to then expect a certain standard of behavior in their own home?

Thinking like this is dangerous and reminds me of the UN Rights of the Child convention which, in my opinion, comes dangerously close to the line of not allowing parents to parent.

I do not think parents have the right to force their children to align with their religious beliefs. Sorry, but that is the way I feel. I teach my DD what I believe, but I beleive I would not be doing right by her if I didn't allow her to be exposed to thinking that is contrary to that. Per webster subjugation: noun. forced submission to control by others;To bring under control; conquer; To make subservient; enslave.. All of these definitions fit. I DO think that this is a cult, and I think they are subjugating these girls.

 

[ebtbmom]

I do not think parents have the right to force their children to align with their religious beliefs. Sorry, but that is the way I feel. I teach my DD what I believe, but I beleive I would not be doing right by her if I didn't allow her to be exposed to thinking that is contrary to that. Per webster subjugation: noun. forced submission to control by others;To bring under control; conquer; To make subservient; enslave.. All of these definitions fit. I DO think that this is a cult, and I think they are subjugating these girls.

I love having actual discussions on here sometimes. Don't get me wrong, Disney planning is great, but it's also fun to debate differing ideas and opinions.

Gotta go back to work, have a nice afternoon!

 

[princessmom29]

I love having actual discussions on here sometimes. Don't get me wrong, Disney planning is great, but it's also fun to debate differing ideas and opinions.

Gotta go back to work, have a nice afternoon!

I do enjoy a good debate!
thanks, You too

 

[CdnCarrie]

Read the literature on the homeschool method they use, and listen to some of the earlier taped interviews where they are much more willing to talk about their beliefs. Michelle has said multiple times that they do not believe women are to work outside the home, and that they are subject to men in all things. I don't think they are necessairly coached on that issue, it is just that wearing pants has been protrayed as so negative to them that they would never dream of doing it even if it were allowed. Same with working outside the home. Michelle said both are "not what a woman should be doing". They are being taught, per Michelle's own statments, that God doesn't want women wearing pants or working outside the home. they are also being taught, again per Michelle, that women have no place in any kind of leadership role. Their home is their whole world. I don't think as a 16 year old girl I would be strong enough to make a choice that alienated me from my family and my church in that environment. They have been robbed of any choice in the matter by a lifetime of being taught that it was wrong. JUst because they are exposed in a superficial way to people that do it doesn't mean that they aren't taught that those people are doing something wrong.

I agree with you that some of their religious beliefs are a little extreme. However this belief system is not unique to the Duggars obviously.

There is a huge leap from people raising their kids with a certain set of religious beliefs and people forcing their children to "work as servants" and all the other stuff and nonsense people write about this family. Not agreeing with their belief system is fine. Writing blatant blanket statements about how they are harming their children is not. That is my whole point.

 

[princessmom29]

I agree with you that some of their religious beliefs are a little extreme. However this belief system is not unique to the Duggars obviously.

There is a huge leap from people raising their kids with a certain set of religious beliefs and people forcing their children to "work as servants" and all the other stuff and nonsense people write about this family. Not agreeing with their belief system is fine. Writing blatant blanket statements about how they are harming their children is not. That is my whole point.

I get what you are saying, but I feel that their beleif system is harming these children, at least the girls. Subjugating someone and forcing them to be responsible for all of the household chores form a young age to me equates with being a servant. That is what the female srevant class was in Europe. It has been said over and over by the parents that the girls are responsible for keeping the entire house and cairing for the younger siblings. By their own statements they are teaching them that the only acceptable role in life for a woman is as a wife and mother subjgated to her husband.

 

[bookgirl]

their "friends" appear to me to be from families with the same phiolosophy as they have. I wonder if they would be allowed to have friends who wore pants and makeup???

That would be thier cousin Amy She is always hanging out with them. In her jeans, with her ipod, with her boyfriend whom she has kissed. They seem to like her anyway.

The rest of both sides of the family do not follow the same religious beliefs but they are all hanging out together anyway.

 

[princessmom29]

That would be thier cousin Amy She is always hanging out with them. In her jeans, with her ipod, with her boyfriend whom she has kissed. They seem to like her anyway.

The rest of both sides of the family do not follow the same religious beliefs but they are all hanging out together anyway.

It is made super clear that while they tolerate cousin Amy they DO NOT agree with her lifestyle. Do they associate with anyone outside of their family and the occasional transient person with the show that doesn't believe like they do? Not that I have seen. The show is their moneymaker so they cannot stop access by them, and the relationships with their family were already in place before Jim Bob and Michelle converted to this "lifestyle". It is such a contradiction to me that they feel TV is a currupting infulence, but make their living form a TV show!

 

[JUJU814]

It is made super clear that while they tolerate cousin Amy they DO NOT agree with her lifestyle. Do they associate with anyone outside of their family and the occasional transient person with the show that doesn't believe like they do? Not that I have seen. The show is their moneymaker so they cannot stop access by them, and the relationships with their family were already in place before Jim Bob and Michelle converted to this "lifestyle". It is such a contradiction to me that they feel TV is a currupting infulence, but make their living form a TV show!

This "lifestyle" they are living is their FAITH. They are ultra conservative born again Christians. They seem to have done a FINE job raising these children and it's none of your business, my business, or anyone elses how many kids they have, that they've raised them in their FAITH not just a "lifestyle".

You don't know them from a hole in the wall so unless anyone has first hand knowledge of them , I think everyone should just shut up and mind their own business.

We see them on TV for one hour per week, so many weeks per year. Out of that one hour, what is shown is probably less than 40 minutes with commercials..and that is HIGHLY edited.

Let's just all hope that baby makes it and lives a healthy life. This could happen to ANYONE..whether it is your first baby or 21st..so give the poor family a break.

Is everyone here so darn perfect that they have nothing better to do than pick apart everyone elses parenting?????? What? You have NO self improvements to makes?

This "lifestyle" is MY faith. It seems to me you have NO clue from a spiritual standpoint the reasons behind a wife bringing herself under the submission of her husband. Many women, CHOOSE to do so...gladly and joyfully. I think this woman is a beautiful example of true biblical submission and she is a shining example to her daughters. One day, the girls will have their own decisions to make. I WISH I grew up with that example. As a matter of fact, just as a sidenote, the Bible, which they believe in, tells a woman to submit to her husband as unto the Lord, and then by the way, has a VERY important command to the HUSBAND. If you study theology and dig deeper into the scripture, you will learn that the idea of submission in the original greek goes a whole lot deeper. It is not just "women being subjugate to men"..not at ALL. AND if you have a husband that loves you deeply and cares for you and would lay down his life for you, then it is not at all hard to "submit to your husband". She doesn't believe at all that she is "beneath" him...that is not at all what it means..but of course, all most people can see is that word "submit" and they freak out.

All this hot air attacking the Dugger family just shows the pure ignorance there is out there about their "lifestyle" and the deepness of their seemingly genuine FAITH.

But of course, all will have their "opinions". The Duggars seem to be able to handle it..and for that, I say kuddos to them for being who they are, not being afraid to stand up for what they believe, and for raising a very beautiful family and being proud to allow all of America to see them.

 

[princessmom29]

This "lifestyle" they are living is their FAITH. They are ultra conservative born again Christians. They seem to have done a FINE job raising these children and it's none of your business, my business, or anyone elses how many kids they have, that they've raised them in their FAITH not just a "lifestyle".

You don't know them from a hole in the wall so unless anyone has first hand knowledge of them , I think everyone should just shut up and mind their own business.

We see them on TV for one hour per week, so many weeks per year. Out of that one hour, what is shown is probably less than 40 minutes with commercials..and that is HIGHLY edited.

Let's just all hope that baby makes it and lives a healthy life. This could happen to ANYONE..whether it is your first baby or 21st..so give the poor family a break.

Is everyone here so darn perfect that they have nothing better to do than pick apart everyone elses parenting?????? What? You have NO self improvements to makes?

This "lifestyle" is MY faith. It seems to me you have NO clue from a spiritual standpoint the reasons behind a wife bringing herself under the submission of her husband. Many women, CHOOSE to do so...gladly and joyfully. I think this woman is a beautiful example of true biblical submission and she is a shining example to her daughters. One day, the girls will have their own decisions to make. I WISH I grew up with that example. As a matter of fact, just as a sidenote, the Bible, which they believe in, tells a woman to submit to her husband as unto the Lord, and then by the way, has a VERY important command to the HUSBAND. If you study theology and dig deeper into the scripture, you will learn that the idea of submission in the original greek goes a whole lot deeper. It is not just "women being subjugate to men"..not at ALL. AND if you have a husband that loves you deeply and cares for you and would lay down his life for you, then it is not at all hard to "submit to your husband". She doesn't believe at all that she is "beneath" him...that is not at all what it means..but of course, all most people can see is that word "submit" and they freak out.

All this hot air attacking the Dugger family just shows the pure ignorance there is out there about their "lifestyle" and the deepness of their seemingly genuine FAITH.

But of course, all will have their "opinions". The Duggars seem to be able to handle it..and for that, I say kuddos to them for being who they are, not being afraid to stand up for what they believe, and for raising a very beautiful family and being proud to allow all of America to see them.

I am not at all ignorant to this lifestyle and theology. I grew up in a slightly less extreme version, and THANK GOD I GOT OUT!!!I have herad it all beofre about "submission" ect. It is a twisted interpretation of scripture used to subjugate women and keep them incapable of leaving. They have no education, no financial resources b/c everthing is in their husband's name. If they leave they can either go on public assistance or starve. They have no means of supporting thier children b/c they have no skills outside the home. My family didn't buy this far into the theology, and our "church" was not quite as restrictive, but I knew plenty of families like the Duggars, just without the army of kids. I got to go to school, but some in other "churches" were not that lucky. They used a sham of a homeschool to turn out barely literate girls who could count money at the grocery, but not much else. I worked hard, got a scholarship, and ran. Fast. Eventually my parents figrued out that the "church" was not right about everything and left as well. THANK GOD!!!! I will never allow my daughter to go thorugh what I did. It was a struggle constantly no one saw why I ever tried in school because the role of a woman was wife and mother anyway. I would never use any of it so why bother. God forbid I disagree with any of the dogma or dare to question anything the "church" taught. I was reported to my parents as "questioning my faith" and "in need of guidance." Which was code ofr needing to be reindoctrinated. I finally just started keeping my mouth shut and planning my escape, pretending to buy inot the whole thing until I could get out. I had the resources, these girls are not so lucky. Shining example she is NOT, and I don't think these girls will EVER get to make any decisions for themselves. Their mother will be of no help to them should the decide they do not want to be brood mares and housekeepers.

You assume that everyone who has ever been a part of that lifesyle could never want to leave it. Soem of us actually believ that God would never want us to be treated as second class, because for all the pretty words about it being a beautiflu thing to joyfully submit to a husband is cristian love to a husband it is really just all about control. If it was really about having a better husband/wife relationship then marriage would be a prtnership not a dictatorship. That is why women are never allowed to be church leaders in these "conservative christian" groups.You should have seen the shock and outrage when I dared to suggest that I be able to speak on "youth Sunday". It was as if I suggested that we bite the heads off chickens aznd worship satan. "Women don't speak in the church" What a crock!

 

[maxiesmom]

When you put your family on tv for everyone to see, you should expect your choices to be commented on. If you don't want anyone to have an opinion on what you do, then don't broadcast it on tv. Simple. You can't have it both ways.

 

[ireland_nicole]

I get what you are saying, but I feel that their beleif system is harming these children, at least the girls. Subjugating someone and forcing them to be responsible for all of the household chores form a young age to me equates with being a servant. That is what the female srevant class was in Europe. It has been said over and over by the parents that the girls are responsible for keeping the entire house and cairing for the younger siblings. By their own statements they are teaching them that the only acceptable role in life for a woman is as a wife and mother subjgated to her husband.

I choose to submit to my husband, because of my faith in God, and my desire for a happy, biblical marriage. I am certainly not subjugated. My husband loves me enough that not only would he die for me, he lays down his life for me in countless ways every day. He loves me, cherishes me, values me, respects me, and encourages me. Surprisingly enough, I even have a college degree and marketable skills I'm an RN with a bachelor's degree-(not unlike Anna Duggar who graduated Bible college- but I guess to some, that wouldn't count as a "real" education.)

My "opinion" is that because of your anger regarding your own life experience, you are transferring your own emotions onto a family you don't even know. Quite frankly, it's really not healthy.

Point of fact, the boys do help in the running of the home. Point of fact, the girls are encouraged to be independent, and valued for who they are. Are they raised to respect authority, love God, put others first, and preserve modesty? You betcha. And so are my children. I certainly don't think these values are "abusive" in any way. There is no way that these children, who have been all over the country, and exposed to plenty of outside experiences and individuals, are unable to make a choice as to how they would like to live after they grow up. We all raise our children with our own values, whatever they are, and when they grow up, they decide for themselves.

 

[QVCshopper]

PrincessMom29, did you grow up in the Worldwide Church of God, by any chance? Just wondering... I had a similar experience as a child when my parents were members of that church. Now, I am very cautious of any religion.

That said, I hope the baby girl is OK. But, I don't really agree with the number of children they have, simply because the older siblings seem to raise the younger ones. And I also find it ironic that the Duggars don't like watching much TV, but they make tons of $ on it. But, to each their own.