Josh is the voice of reason on FP+

[ArwenMarie]

I'm sure each individual has their own attraction preferences and I DO go roughly 3-4 times a year for long weekends.

But...

I remember when I would go just once a year or less and we would ride BTMRR during Wishes. Literally, the "line" was how long it took you to walk from the exit back through the queue. I still, with zero people in front of me, only road it twice. I mean, personally, its the same ride again. There isn't anything new and you're going too fast to see something you missed last time.

Now that I go more often, I purposefully skip some of my favorites so that the next time I go, it will be like new. I love Spaceship Earth or Jungle Cruise, but I'll be okay if I miss them on one trip. I certainly don't need to ride them more than once a trip. I save that for the highly competitive Buzz Lightyear-type rides, where a vacation victor must be crowned!

We skip whole parks now on each trip, deliberately. It helps keep things less hectic and more relaxing, and then the park is new again when we get to go back. But we are lucky enough to get down there two or three times a year now. Back when it was only once a year, or less, there was a feeling of wanting to get as much out of it as we could.

I think kids also like to repeat rides more than adults, at least in our family. Once my kids find a ride they like, they want to ride it again. Especially as someone mentioned above, when you have a scaredy-cat

 

[MichiganDVC]

It is more than rides, I agree. I'm not a huge ride person myself...if I ride maybe 4 or 5 rides in a day (including the bottom tier rides lol). Throw in a show or a parade, I'm good.

But I do think there it's reasonable that people expect a certain amount of rides for the prices that Disney charges for their tickets.

The only way to do this, for EVERYONE who paid the exact same amount for their tickets, is to allow less people in the parks.

50,000+/- people are in the Magic Kingdom each day. How can all 50,000 ride every ride they want with zero wait?

I think the problem is that with FP-, people who knew the best strategy were the only ones who could ride everything 7 times. Unfortunately, the other 45,000 guests were just the unwashed masses that got passed by FP runner.

I know Disney just wants your money, but I agree with the other posters before that argue that WDW is about more than just the rides. Sure, getting a box of popcorn on Main street isn't free. Nor is getting a Dole Whip in Adventureland. But these are just as much a part of any trip to MK for me as any ride is.

 

[JanaDee]

I'm sure each individual has their own attraction preferences and I DO go roughly 3-4 times a year for long weekends.

But...

I remember when I would go just once a year or less and we would ride BTMRR during Wishes. Literally, the "line" was how long it took you to walk from the exit back through the queue. I still, with zero people in front of me, only road it twice. I mean, personally, its the same ride again. There isn't anything new and you're going too fast to see something you missed last time.

Now that I go more often, I purposefully skip some of my favorites so that the next time I go, it will be like new. I love Spaceship Earth or Jungle Cruise, but I'll be okay if I miss them on one trip. I certainly don't need to ride them more than once a trip. I save that for the highly competitive Buzz Lightyear-type rides, where a vacation victor must be crowned!

My kids like to ride their favorites more than once, as do I. Since you are a frequent visitor, it is easy enough for you to say "oh, I'll ride that next time".

Not everyone has that luxury.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall, but as been pointed out numerous times, there are very few "slow" times at WDW anymore. Experiences from even five years ago can't be compared to what is happening now.

Are there going to be times when rides are walk-on? Sure, for a short time in the morning at RD or late at night right before closing. It isn't the norm at any time during the day.

 

[wdwfreak]

I have been to WDW as a child (with my family), as a single adult, as a member of an adult party of 2 or more, as a parent (with my children), as a member of an extended family, and with a very large group (marching band). Add more people to your party and you add more complexity. Note the use of the word YOU. Disney isn't causing you to ride fewer rides, YOU are.

Josh did not claim that a family of 8 could follow his touring timeline. If asked, he would probably be the first to point out that it just wouldn't work. Even if all 8 were adults, you could never get 8 people moving together like that without other delays. But that isn't WDW's fault or problem. These are choices that we make.

Thank you. THIS was actually my point in response to the other poster's assertion that Josh was oversimplifying things.

 

[AliceandAriel]

Apparently some people think FP+ is the sign of the apocalypse. People need to chill, it's WDW and there has always been waiting involved at WDW.

You just have to go with it. It isn't going away any time soon, if ever at all. Learn to roll with the punches, and plan a bit more, sure, but hey, if it's what you've got to do to make sure you ride what you want and see what you want, so be it.

 

[sharonped]

My kids like to ride their favorites more than once, as do I. Since you are a frequent visitor, it is easy enough for you to say "oh, I'll ride that next time".

Not everyone has that luxury.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall, but as been pointed out numerous times, there are very few "slow" times at WDW anymore. Experiences from even five years ago can't be compared to what is happening now.

Are there going to be times when rides are walk-on? Sure, for a short time in the morning at RD or late at night right before closing. It isn't the norm at any time during the day.

This.

As a family that can really only go about once every 2 years, and doing a bit of calculation on the money we're spending per hour, and older kids (and myself) who do really love the mountains (yes, multiple times/day)...I'm very grateful we got to experience WDW in the golden years. It absolutely was magical.

Our Dec/Jan trip this year was fun. It really was. But we did experience much, much longer FP lines than ever before, and for the first time ever I was bored in the middle of the afternoon. Just one little family's experience... but we're done for a good 5 years. Best wishes for the magic to continue for all of you. Truly.

 

[ciera321]

Well stated, as usual! Josh's website is so helpful and informative! Yes, this makes me feel a lot better about FP+! Though I will miss riding my favorites with a FP more than once!!!

 

[wdwfreak]

Our Dec/Jan trip this year was fun. It really was. But we did experience much, much longer FP lines than ever before, and for the first time ever I was bored in the middle of the afternoon. Just one little family's experience... but we're done for a good 5 years. Best wishes for the magic to continue for all of you. Truly.

This was also when paper FP was still available so people were double and triple dipping to get as many FP as possible, both + and -. With legacy FP gone (just in the the last week) this won't be the case moving forward.

 

[nugov2]

I'm sure each individual has their own attraction preferences and I DO go roughly 3-4 times a year for long weekends.

But...

I remember when I would go just once a year or less and we would ride BTMRR during Wishes. Literally, the "line" was how long it took you to walk from the exit back through the queue. I still, with zero people in front of me, only road it twice. I mean, personally, its the same ride again. There isn't anything new and you're going too fast to see something you missed last time.

Now that I go more often, I purposefully skip some of my favorites so that the next time I go, it will be like new. I love Spaceship Earth or Jungle Cruise, but I'll be okay if I miss them on one trip. I certainly don't need to ride them more than once a trip. I save that for the highly competitive Buzz Lightyear-type rides, where a vacation victor must be crowned!

You are an adult, kids like to ride things multiple times. I can see why you wouldn't want to ride things or skip things, but kids...not so much. My DD rode Space 5 or 6 times when we were there in June(I can't remember exactly right now, but she would) My DD and DS 6 rode BTM 2 times, Splash 3 times...my 3yr old rode Small World on an almost endless loop(my poor mother who went over and over) she met Ariel twice in the Grotto(I mean she had different outfits on she needs to see them both) and also went on the ride at least 3 or 4 times. We were in MK for 2 days and right now those are the only ones I can remember off the top of my heads that we rode multiple times...I know there were more)
In Universal we rode Dudley Doo Right 4 times in a row...I finally said ok lets move on. I was also drenched and ready to dry off. While I think not all families are like this, many are. Probably more than don't care if they ride again.

WDW is soooo much more than just rides!! It seems that the people who are only concerned with the number of rides they can get in a day would be better served going to Universal and staying in one of their hotels to get the "front of the line" pass. Then they can ride all they want. I think that would also benefit the other people who are fine with standing in line for a Disney ride to not have to listen to someone next to them complain the whole time in line because they cant get paper FP anymore.

It does have other things to offer, but for what they are charging if I am not getting on a significant number of rides it isn't worth it. I am not paying that kind of money to watch parades/fireworks and to eat. Sorry, I again don't think this is the viewpoint of most unless you live in the area and go whenever you want(sure I'd feel this way if we went 5+ a year) or are older and don't have kids. WDW is fun, but it isn't so great I will shell out that kind of cash to eat a dole whip, watch a parade and dine at a restaurant and maybe hop on 1 or 2 rides.

 

[Magpie]

If I want to read Josh's review and opinions I will go to his site.
And I do

Despite how popular Josh is, there are always people on the Dis who've never been to his site and have never heard of him.

The OP was being thoughtful, in providing a link to something that might actually be helpful in planning theme park strategies.

Or when your scaredy cat kiddo finally rides the big ride and looks at you and says "can we go again"...in the past we would be able to pull another FP-, now the only way to ride it again is to stand in a ridiculously long line, it is not happening.

What did you do when you and your scaredy cat kiddo walked up to the FP- machine and discovered the passes were all distributed for the day? Or the return times were right smack in the middle of your dinner ADR? Or you were already holding a different FP-? Or the return times were out to 11pm and you knew your scaredy cat kiddo would never stay up that late?

In the past, children were disappointed at Disney with much the same regularity as they are now.

Of course, assuming this isn't the last day of your trip, you can always make a FP+ for the next time you're in this park. Or you could make an effort to get there at Ropedrop. Or - for a same-day solution! - you can skip the parade/fireworks and return to ride while everyone else is distracted.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

You are an adult, kids like to ride things multiple times. I can see why you wouldn't want to ride things or skip things, but kids...not so much. My DD rode Space 5 or 6 times when we were there in June(I can't remember exactly right now, but she would) My DD and DS 6 rode BTM 2 times, Splash 3 times...my 3yr old rode Small World on an almost endless loop(my poor mother who went over and over) she met Ariel twice in the Grotto(I mean she had different outfits on she needs to see them both) and also went on the ride at least 3 or 4 times. We were in MK for 2 days and right now those are the only ones I can remember off the top of my heads that we rode multiple times...I know there were more)
In Universal we rode Dudley Doo Right 4 times in a row...I finally said ok lets move on. I was also drenched and ready to dry off. While I think not all families are like this, many are. Probably more than don't care if they ride again.



It does have other things to offer, but for what they are charging if I am not getting on a significant number of rides it isn't worth it. I am not paying that kind of money to watch parades/fireworks and to eat. Sorry, I again don't think this is the viewpoint of most unless you live in the area and go whenever you want(sure I'd feel this way if we went 5+ a year) or are older and don't have kids. WDW is fun, but it isn't so great I will shell out that kind of cash to eat a dole whip, watch a parade and dine at a restaurant and maybe hop on 1 or 2 rides.

When my boys were in their "ride" years, I would probably have agreed with this. There were a few trips in which riding was the only thing that we really prioritized. Out of 30+ trips, maybe 4. For those 4 trips, we would probably choose Universal today.

 

[btk2333]

As usual Josh does a great job

 

[JanaDee]

WDW is soooo much more than just rides!! It seems that the people who are only concerned with the number of rides they can get in a day would be better served going to Universal and staying in one of their hotels to get the "front of the line" pass. Then they can ride all they want. I think that would also benefit the other people who are fine with standing in line for a Disney ride to not have to listen to someone next to them complain the whole time in line because they cant get paper FP anymore.

We didn't spend the money it costs and time it took to get to FL to wander around looking at each other.

 

[wdwfreak]

Is there some algorithm or formula I'm not aware of that lays out how many rides you are entitled to ride per dollars spent?

 

[Planogirl]

Josh is a funny guy and I think that he's onto something here. However we won't all be able to enjoy EMH or an unusual 8 AM opening which can change things quite a bit. Plus as he admits, the three fastpass limitation is still there.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Is there some algorithm or formula I'm not aware of that lays out how many rides you are entitled to ride per dollars spent?

I don't think that it is a question of "entitlement" as much as expectation. Every person who spends money brings his or her own expectations. Fail to meet those expectations and you risk their future spend. Some people want better/more rides, others want better restaurants, others want better resorts.

 

[Planogirl]

Is there some algorithm or formula I'm not aware of that lays out how many rides you are entitled to ride per dollars spent?

People quite naturally will expect what they always had in the past. I'm not talking about back when there was no fastpass but after the improvement of legacy fastpasses was put into place. No one wants less than what they had before.

 

[sharonped]

This was also when paper FP was still available so people were double and triple dipping to get as many FP as possible, both + and -. With legacy FP gone (just in the the last week) this won't be the case moving forward.

Good point! I had forgotten about that. I really hope it gets better all around. I'd love to come back sooner if things change.

 

[morethananyonex]

I'm not sure why everyone seems to be picking on the PP who mentioned Josh's times are fairly unrealistic with a family with small children. They are. I do not recall her blaming WDW for that, or Josh, or anyone for that matter. She was just pointing out that while his post may provide relief to some people, it doesn't exactly do that for families with small children or other groups who cannot move around the park quickly. That's not a knock against him, I too find his site very helpful, but FP+ in MK is much more complicated when you cannot take full advantage of the rope drop hours like he does. I'm sure he would tell you that too.

Also, I don't know why it's so hard for people to grasp that not everyone goes to WDW for the same reasons they do. For some people it is about the rides. For some people missing a ride or not being able to repeat it would be a downer on their trip. I feel like some people take people wanting to ride rides instead of walk around as a personal insult. Who cares?

 

[wdwfreak]

I don't think that it is a question of "entitlement" as much as expectation. Every person who spends money brings his or her own expectations. Fail to meet those expectations and you risk their future spend. Some people want better/more rides, others want better restaurants, others want better resorts.

True. To each, his or her own. However, if you equate a successful trip with sheer number of rides ridden and you don't get up for RD or if you travel with children or if you go during peak times then you're probably going to be disappointed, FP+ or not.