Jon and Kate Plus 8 Official Thread - Part 8

[3prettyprincesses]

They prob weren't that close. My daughter has lenses that practically let you count the nose hairs in a person from 100 feet away. Maybe even 1000 feet away LOL. It's scary what she sometimes captures. When I go to her photo showings and see some of those photo's, especially of animals, it's amazing.
And some are prob up close and in her face.

I suppose that could be true but they *looked* really close. Particularly the store and parking lot ones. It would realllly creep me out to have people following me around and snappig my picture.

On a side note, I'm still trying to figure out my camera. I posted a question awhile ago on the photography board about taking good fireworks pictures. The answer I got was 'uh, try the fireworks setting on your camera.' Didn't even know I had that on my camera! I felt pretty stupid after that!

 

[OhMari]

I suppose that could be true but they *looked* really close. Particularly the store and parking lot ones. It would realllly creep me out to have people following me around and snappig my picture.

On a side note, I'm still trying to figure out my camera. I posted a question awhile ago on the photography board about taking good fireworks pictures. The answer I got was 'uh, try the fireworks setting on your camera.' Didn't even know I had that on my camera! I felt pretty stupid after that!

You have to remember, the old show was on cable, lots of people in my town, don't have cable. But Kate was on a regular tv station. If anything, she would be even more recognized now.

I don't have a firework setting on my camera.

 

[DMRick]

You have to remember, the old show was on cable, lots of people in my town, don't have cable. But Kate was on a regular tv station. If anything, she would be even more recognized now.
.

I think this was more interesting than talking about Kate LOL. A lot of people in your town don't have cable? So they only have the main chanels by rabbit ear (or now by using that machine)? I don't personally know anyone without cable, even if it's just the bottom tier, for good reception. Is your town a really poor town?

 

[walden]

DWTS spray tans them--and I had read she had gone for extra...so I assume that meant spray tan.

I doubt she is going to a tanning bed.

I know she has had work on her body--but it has all been reconstructive. Her skin looks way too good to be regularly exposed to UV light. (my opinion though)

On the tanning: This has nothing to do with Kate, it is just a PSA! Well you know I'm as old as the hills, don't you? Spray tans: OK, as a vanity thing if you can afford them. They may obscure an actual sunburn though. Tanning beds: Suicidal. Hear me please. Melanomas kill. I lost a dear friend to melanoma. Sun screen is your friend, and your children's friend. I've had many basal cell skin cancer removals, and 2 melanomas off, because I also once wanted to be bronzed -- prior to the information we now have.

Back on topic: Kate's tummy tuck was definitely reconstructive, and I'd venture to say probably medically necessary. I thought she had denied any other body work, but I need new bifocals if she has not had chestal enhancements! Sorry, but blossoming from a small B cup to a D cup overnight is quite unlikely. I have no problem if she has had enhancements, but can't understand why she (and her fans) seem to want to deny it.

Just saw on EW website that the state of Pennsylvania has granted approval for Kate + 8 to be filmed with the kiddos.

Apparently. If it is true (very, very odd that PA DOL supposedly released this confidential information, especially on a Saturday) at least this means that TLC will have to conform to PA state law such as it is (before it is beefed up by Rep Murt), and some minimal limitations on filming in the future. It may also mean that some part (15%) is guaranteed to be put aside for the kids in the future. Of course, unlike with Coogan the parents can draw on the 15% for educational and health needs. I'm not sure that I trust the Gosselin parents not to draw on the kids' funds.

Hey, I guess it is better than before applications for necessary work permits were filed. Or (quite possibly but not necessarily) granted.

Sigh.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

On the tanning: This has nothing to do with Kate, it is just a PSA! Well you know I'm as old as the hills, don't you? Spray tans: OK, as a vanity thing if you can afford them. They may obscure an actual sunburn though. Tanning beds: Suicidal. Hear me please. Melanomas kill. I lost a dear friend to melanoma. Sun screen is your friend, and your children's friend. I've had many basal cell skin cancer removals, and 2 melanomas off, because I also once wanted to be bronzed -- prior to the information we now have.

Back on topic: Kate's tummy tuck was definitely reconstructive, and I'd venture to say probably medically necessary. I thought she had denied any other body work, but I need new bifocals if she has not had chestal enhancements! Sorry, but blossoming from a small B cup to a D cup overnight is quite unlikely. I have no problem if she has had enhancements, but can't understand why she (and her fans) seem to want to deny it.



Apparently. If it is true (very, very odd that PA DOL supposedly released this confidential information, especially on a Saturday) at least this means that TLC will have to conform to PA state law such as it is (before it is beefed up by Rep Murt), and some minimal limitations on filming in the future. It may also mean that some part (15%) is guaranteed to be put aside for the kids in the future. Of course, unlike with Coogan the parents can draw on the 15% for educational and health needs. I'm not sure that I trust the Gosselin parents not to draw on the kids' funds.

Hey, I guess it is better than before applications for necessary work permits were filed. Or (quite possibly but not necessarily) granted.

Sigh.

I read a CNN article and a bulb just went off...when folks realize....

The 15% is 15% of the kids' income....meaning, it is 15% of whatever is declared to be teh kids income. The other 85% can be used for whatever. But the 15% has to be set aside. It's not 15% of the shows pay out to the Gosseline family. At best they are only guaranteed (if at all) the equity rates which is likely a small fraction of the salary per show estimated of the past. The 85% of the remainder of their salary (let's say $850 of every $1000) can be used for whatever (for the kids--i.e. their education and such). If I'm understanding Coogan's law correctly--the 15% cannot be touched for any reason at any time...probably why the number is so small. It is realized that money can be spent to the benefit of the child in present time. Policing that though, whole other debate.

Also--I did find out as well (this is all from a CNN article) that failure for the Gosselins/TLC to follow the permitting process to the T, could result in charges on the past infractions. So they are without a paddle so to speak to try and "loophole their way" out of doing what is legally required.

 

[walden]

Coogan's Law is only relevant to California! The DOL did a very poor reading of it. Rep Murt is trying to strengthen the PA Child Labor Laws to be more in line with the Coogan Law.

My point was that the PA DOL solution was to set aside 15% for all 8 kids, which could be used for medical and educational expenses.

A very poor response to a very poor investigation. IMO.

Yes, from my reading of the letter to TLC from the PA DOL (it is on TMZ), the whole case can be reopened if TLC fails to comply with the existing legislation in the future. And with any new legislation

TLC and the Gosselin parents could have been fined big time. They still could be . . . they got off easy.

 

[Promomx2]

I didn't see Kate's coupons? I guess she doesn't need them anymore.

 

[DMRick]

TLC and the Gosselin parents could have been fined big time. They still could be . . . they got off easy.

And I still don't get why they weren't, if PA had a strong case. I'm wondering if they think they didn't, and if TLC fought it they might have won.
I am glad that they appear to be keeping an eye on the next taping, although I'm sorry (in a way, because I want to see the little ones) they will be back taping. I just hope Kate cut a better deal, and the really private stuff won't be on anymore.

I know Kate says she hasn't had a girl job, and I know sometimes she sure does look uh, big. But sometimes she doesn't, so I wonder if she's more into what Haley's dad said, a really good bra. Perhaps even a push up. I mean what benefits are there to lying about it. Does anyone really care if she had the girls fixed? I don't. The other part of me wonders, with all the people stalking her, when could she have had that done and it be missed?

I'm with you on the tanning, we've had some precursers to melanoma in our family, but for those who haven't had a problem and think they look good, it's wasting out breath.

 

[walden]

And I still don't get why they weren't, if PA had a strong case. I'm wondering if they think they didn't, and if TLC fought it they might have won.
I am glad that they appear to be keeping an eye on the next taping, although I'm sorry (in a way, because I want to see the little ones) they will be back taping. I just hope Kate cut a better deal, and the really private stuff won't be on anymore.

I know Kate says she hasn't had a girl job, and I know sometimes she sure does look uh, big. But sometimes she doesn't, so I wonder if she's more into what Haley's dad said, a really good bra. Perhaps even a push up. I mean what benefits are there to lying about it. Does anyone really care if she had the girls fixed? I don't. The other part of me wonders, with all the people stalking her, when could she have had that done and it be missed?

I'm with you on the tanning, we've had some precursers to melanoma in our family, but for those who haven't had a problem and think they look good, it's wasting out breath.

Doris, there is some sad stuff going on here. I think you agree that the Gosselin children should have some compensation for the filming? And for any filming in the future?

The PA DOL did a cursory investigation. Even with that, they found TLC/Gosselins at fault. TLC/Gosselins chose not to fight that. That is the important information, not that the DOL failed to fine or punish to the extent of its' powers. I think you have it backwards.

The TLC maintained that it was not at fault. It sort of wasn't. The responsibility for pulling permits per PA Statute, is the parents. TLC is somewhat at fault because they filmed without permits in place. Had either TLC or the G parents admitted guilt they would have been on the hook six ways to Sunday and subject to fines and/or incarceration.

BY LAW!

The DOL chose not to impose the potential humongous fines -- up to $400 per filming violation (not per episode, per filming) -- and the possible incarceration for the parents that they could have imposed. I guess they did that for the sake of the kids. Good for them.

They merely required that TLC/Gosselins put 15% aside for the kids. They did not ask for a *Coogar-like* protection. So the G parents can access those funds for medical/educational expenses. The DOL also required that permits were pulled in the future. That will give the DOL the ability to conduct site visits in real time.

Rep Murt is trying to get the PA Child Labor Laws better defined, along Coogan lines, so that the DOL has even greater powers and that children like the Gosselins have even better protections.

Does that make more sense.

 

[kidshop]

Doris, there is some sad stuff going on here. I think you agree that the Gosselin children should have some compensation for the filming? And for any filming in the future?

The PA DOL did a cursory investigation. Even with that, they found TLC/Gosselins at fault. TLC/Gosselins chose not to fight that. That is the important information, not that the DOL failed to fine or punish to the extent of its' powers. I think you have it backwards.

The TLC maintained that it was not at fault. It sort of wasn't. The responsibility for pulling permits per PA Statute, is the parents. TLC is somewhat at fault because they filmed without permits in place. Had either TLC or the G parents admitted guilt they would have been on the hook six ways to Sunday and subject to fines and/or incarceration.

BY LAW!

The DOL chose not to impose the potential humongous fines -- up to $400 per filming violation (not per episode, per filming) -- and the possible incarceration for the parents that they could have imposed. I guess they did that for the sake of the kids. Good for them.

They merely required that TLC/Gosselins put 15% aside for the kids. They did not ask for a *Coogar-like* protection. So the G parents can access those funds for medical/educational expenses. The DOL also required that permits were pulled in the future. That will give the DOL the ability to conduct site visits in real time.

Rep Murt is trying to get the PA Child Labor Laws better defined, along Coogan lines, so that the DOL has even greater powers and that children like the Gosselins have even better protections.

Does that make more sense.

The state also 'investigated' without EVER going to the Gosselin house.

 

[whitneyNC]

This wasn't a DSS investigation, I'm not sure going to the house was relevant. They state is trying to decide if the kids were working, and if their best interests were being met. Kids need an advocate. If the parents are being one, many states believe someone else needs to be. The worst part imo is the fact NO trust had been set up in any form until November of 2009...when the inquires began. The results of this investigation were weak, and disappointing. The kids are not winners. It very well may be just the beginning though.

 

[kidshop]

This wasn't a DSS investigation, I'm not sure going to the house was relevant. They state is trying to decide if the kids were working, and if their best interests were being met. Kids need an advocate. If the parents are being one, many states believe someone else needs to be. The worst part imo is the fact NO trust had been set up in any form until November of 2009...when the inquires began.

yes, but the house was the working site...it was the set.

 

[whitneyNC]

yes, but the house was the working site...it was the set.

You are right. That is sad. They didn't get to go home from work. It's the Truman Show. I love that movie!

 

[DMRick]

It all made sense to me, when I read it originally. I didn't have anything backwards imo.

Of course I think the kids should get compensation. More than what they got. I hope they have bank accounts in any case, before they were told they had too.

However, TLC has said that if they (and I was under the impression that meant them or the Gosselins) had been fined, they were going to fight it, as they said PA misinterpreted the law. That would cost PA more money, and I was thinking that they were afraid that they (PA) would lose the case. They only chose (that's what was reported at the time) to not fight it, because there were no consequences. They still maintain, however they did nothing wrong. My opinion is, that since PA didn't fine them, they weren't so sure that TLC was wrong. In this country you are presumed innocent until found guilty..but there are usually consequences. Why didn't they have any. I can only think that perhaps they would have won. And yes, if permits should have been in place, TLC wasn't sort of at fault..they would be at fault, no matter who was supposed to get them. They did the filiming without permits..which they still say they didn't need.

I find it hard to believe that PA didn't fine them because of the kids. I happen to believe they weren't sure it was winable, if it was contested by TLC.

And because they didn't fine them, we'll never know the whole reason why. Out of the goodness of their hearts? I don't buy it.

Am I glad they didn't have to pay out (although I wonder if TLC would have covered it)? Of course, but I don't think any lesson was learned.

Doris, there is some sad stuff going on here. I think you agree that the Gosselin children should have some compensation for the filming? And for any filming in the future?

The PA DOL did a cursory investigation. Even with that, they found TLC/Gosselins at fault. TLC/Gosselins chose not to fight that. That is the important information, not that the DOL failed to fine or punish to the extent of its' powers. I think you have it backwards.

The TLC maintained that it was not at fault. It sort of wasn't. The responsibility for pulling permits per PA Statute, is the parents. TLC is somewhat at fault because they filmed without permits in place. Had either TLC or the G parents admitted guilt they would have been on the hook six ways to Sunday and subject to fines and/or incarceration.

BY LAW!

The DOL chose not to impose the potential humongous fines -- up to $400 per filming violation (not per episode, per filming) -- and the possible incarceration for the parents that they could have imposed. I guess they did that for the sake of the kids. Good for them.

They merely required that TLC/Gosselins put 15% aside for the kids. They did not ask for a *Coogar-like* protection. So the G parents can access those funds for medical/educational expenses. The DOL also required that permits were pulled in the future. That will give the DOL the ability to conduct site visits in real time.

Rep Murt is trying to get the PA Child Labor Laws better defined, along Coogan lines, so that the DOL has even greater powers and that children like the Gosselins have even better protections.

Does that make more sense.

 

[DMRick]

The state also 'investigated' without EVER going to the Gosselin house.

This wasn't much of an investigation IMO. Or it's possible there were not laws to allow what would have been a better investigation.

I only hope that when they start taping again, they realize we don't need to see the really private moments in these kids lives.

 

[madge]

I know this isn't a DWTS thread ... and I know how Kate was on the show as long as she was ... and it wasn't because of her dancing. LOL.

I hadn't seen the others dance until tonight. Wow. I can't imagine how she (or Buzz, or any of the others voted off to this point) could have continued to compete with the dancing I've seen tonight. Some of these people can move!

 

[OhMari]

I think this was more interesting than talking about Kate LOL. A lot of people in your town don't have cable? So they only have the main chanels by rabbit ear (or now by using that machine)? I don't personally know anyone without cable, even if it's just the bottom tier, for good reception. Is your town a really poor town?

I live in a farming community, and the cable companies don't extend cable to the farmers out in the country. Plus there are some towns, with just one road that runs through the town-(my dh grew up 2 miles from me in a small town) and cable companies will not run cable to these towns. So yes, many people I know, had to get the converter box. My county and the next county have a 14% unemployment rate. People are not rich in our area. People may be land rich-because they own acres, and many are starting to sell off the farm land for $14,000 an acre to pay their bills, and people come out of Milwaukee and build big houses like the Gosselins live in. But after a few years, most move away, because of the manure smell.

 

[DMRick]

Ah, that makes sense.

LOL on the manure smell and the moving. Guess they didn't do their homework.

I live in a farming community, and the cable companies don't extend cable to the farmers out in the country. Plus there are some towns, with just one road that runs through the town-(my dh grew up 2 miles from me in a small town) and cable companies will not run cable to these towns. So yes, many people I know, had to get the converter box. My county and the next county have a 14% unemployment rate. People are not rich in our area. People may be land rich-because they own acres, and many are starting to sell off the farm land for $14,000 an acre to pay their bills, and people come out of Milwaukee and build big houses like the Gosselins live in. But after a few years, most move away, because of the manure smell.

 

[MAKmom]

I know this isn't a DWTS thread ... and I know how Kate was on the show as long as she was ... and it wasn't because of her dancing. LOL.

I hadn't seen the others dance until tonight. Wow. I can't imagine how she (or Buzz, or any of the others voted off to this point) could have continued to compete with the dancing I've seen tonight. Some of these people can move!

They were not all this good in the past shows. Neicy did great but was awful before. Jake & Pam & the football player were terrible the first 2 weeks. They are all getting better each week.

 

[walden]

However, TLC has said that if they (and I was under the impression that meant them or the Gosselins) had been fined, they were going to fight it, as they said PA misinterpreted the law. That would cost PA more money, and I was thinking that they were afraid that they (PA) would lose the case. They only chose (that's what was reported at the time) to not fight it, because there were no consequences. They still maintain, however they did nothing wrong. My opinion is, that since PA didn't fine them, they weren't so sure that TLC was wrong. In this country you are presumed innocent until found guilty..but there are usually consequences. Why didn't they have any. I can only think that perhaps they would have won. And yes, if permits should have been in place, TLC wasn't sort of at fault..they would be at fault, no matter who was supposed to get them. They did the filiming without permits..which they still say they didn't need.

I find it hard to believe that PA didn't fine them because of the kids. I happen to believe they weren't sure it was winable, if it was contested by TLC.

And because they didn't fine them, we'll never know the whole reason why. Out of the goodness of their hearts? I don't buy it.

Am I glad they didn't have to pay out (although I wonder if TLC would have covered it)? Of course, but I don't think any lesson was learned.

I think a lesson was learned. The good new is that work permits have now been obtained. http://www.philly.com/philly/entert..._child_work_permits__Kate_Plus_8_is_a_go.html

"The permits' language spells out certain restrictions, mostly regarding hours on camera and mandatory days off, that are to apply to all future reality shows filmed in Pennsylvania, said Troy Thompson, a spokesman for the Department of Labor and Industry, on Monday.

The permits also bar any filming of children while they are naked or in their bedrooms or bathrooms."

TLC's contention that the PA DOL, the Regulatory Agency, misinterpreted the very laws that it is required to develop and uphold is nothing other than risable. As to *fighting* the finding against them? Posturing hot air. TLC could have appealed the decision and asked for a Judicial Review by the State of Pennsylvania. FYI, Judicial Reviews hardly ever succeed and would necessitate a much more thorough investigation by the DOL. Somehow TLC didn't want that.

I'm writing like a bureaucrat, so some definitions from wikipedia (easier to read than Britannica) to explain terms that some people may be unfamiliar with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_agency
"Regulatory agencies deal in the area of administrative law—regulation or rulemaking (codifying and enforcing rules and regulations and imposing supervision or oversight for the benefit of the public at large). The existence of independent regulatory agencies is justified by the complexity of certain regulatory and supervisory tasks that require expertise, the need for rapid implementation of public authority in certain sectors, and the drawbacks of political interference. Some independent regulatory agencies perform investigations or audits, and some are authorized to fine the relevant parties and order certain measures."

Judicial review: "Judicial review is the doctrine in democratic theory under which legislative and executive actions are subject to review, and possible invalidation, by the judiciary. Specific courts with judicial review power must annul the acts of the state when it finds them incompatible with a higher authority, such as the terms of a written constitution. Judicial review is an example of the functioning of separation of powers in a modern governmental system (where the judiciary is one of three branches of government). "

This is one of those cases where ignorance (of the law) is something of a defense. Whoops, we messed up, but "we didn't know" (Jon and Kate's contention) or "we don't agree with PA's interpretation of its own laws" (TLC's contention.)

It is true that regulatory agencies are more interested in compliance than in collecting punative damages. Thus, they settled for ensuring that the children were compensated and required work permits for them in the future. However, TLC had better not put a single step wrong in filming Kate & 8 and renewing those work permits. Now they do know the law, wilful disregard of the law and the terms of the work permits will bring the DOL down on them like a ton of bricks, reopen the case and assess punitive damages going back 3 years.

I find it sad that some people are falling for TLC's position. My knowledge of all this comes from prior experience with a regulatory agency auditing (investigating) Nursing Facilities. You would not believe what unbelievably gross things we find, and what big companies try to argue for the sake of saving a few dollars.