Jon and Kate Plus 8 Official Thread - Part 5

[DMRick]

Maybe he doesn't get them until Friday night?

I do think this won't work, sharing the house. Any mess, any friends, any parties..not going to be good. TLC will love it..lots of photo OP's.

I don't think it will work either. Who will want to hire Jon for 4 days only unless he works 7am - 7pm? Then what is the point of being in NYC if he misses out on all the party time in the city by being back in PA on the weekends. So he gets to be fun dad all weekend and then mom comes home and makes the kids go to school. I just can't see Kate allowing some girlfriend there to play house with her kids all weekend.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

The thing is...I make my assumptions, comments and observations and don't try and smack down anyone who disagrees with me. I read what others say, and may add to it, or say I see it a different way, or ususally I ignore the rosy Kate posts all together. (because I think they must be made by people just like her who are trying to defend the way they act to their own families)

But there are a few on this thread who feel they need to post their own assumptions, and single handedly try to rebut every post they disagree with to defend Kate. It is really tiring.

ITA. This is why I step away for months at a time. I don't think it is an assumption or coincidence that some of the people who defend Kate's less than average tendancies preface by saying "I see myself in her."

So does that mean those of you who sympathize with Jon is due to the fact "they see themselves in him" or are defending "the way they act to their own families"?

Ok...I don't really remember the wave episode, but I know that if I had 6 toddlers and two other young children I would be a nervous wreck on the beach. I've gotten knocked down by waves before just standing in ankle deep water, the ocean isn't something to mess around with.

We went to the beach numerous times when my kids were little, all of them under age 5 and I remember being paranoid that a wave was going to sweep them away. I wouldn't have attempted to take all 3 in the water at once. Kate having Jon only take 2 of his at a time just seems safe and logical to me. My youngest brother was caught in a riptide when he was only 5 and it freaked me out! So I don't think Kate was OCD for that one.

 

[MichelleVW]

By the way, when my SIL did the co-parenting arrangement they did one week on- one week off. Easier to ask for overtime at work, easier to plan events with extended family, and both parents were able to attend games, etc. on Saturdays (but birthday parties and other events required some major organizing eg. who was supposed to buy birthday gifts for parties the kids attended, etc.) They both attended school plays, birthday parties and shared Christmas and holidays. No girlfriends or boyfriends were ever at the house -- no need to introduce the kids to a new flame until it gets really serious.

.

When I first got divorced the kids went week to week between the two of us. It was a nightmare for the kids and they hated it. Luckily for me, my ex got orders and moved to New Hampshire. A few years later he moved back and he thought they were going to move back and forth again, but I said no way and the kids agreed.

Custody arrangements suck for all involved though..

 

[redrosesix]

So does that mean those of you who sympathize with Jon is due to the fact "they see themselves in him" or are defending "the way they act to their own families"?

I definitely wouldn't say I sympathize with Jon -- but I definitely see that those who really sympathize with Kate are more willing to accept everything she says as gospel and willing to believe everything bad that's ever been written about him. And I'm not crazy about many of the things Kate has said to him, about him, and to the kids. And I would never give her the mother of the year award, despite the fact that she probably thinks she deserves it.

But I think there's a lot more to this than what we know -- which isn't really very much (like the divorce papers, I think the divorce proceedings will be made public, and then we'll know a lot more). I'm not sure how I feel about Jodi and Kate's brother going public, but they're probably right on the money in their statements.

Like somebody else posted, there are 3 sides to this: his, hers and the truth.

We went to the beach numerous times when my kids were little, all of them under age 5 and I remember being paranoid that a wave was going to sweep them away. I wouldn't have attempted to take all 3 in the water at once. Kate having Jon only take 2 of his at a time just seems safe and logical to me. My youngest brother was caught in a riptide when he was only 5 and it freaked me out! So I don't think Kate was OCD for that one.

Well, at the time they were only at the shoreline, and there were plenty of kids out a lot further. Each beach is different and I think that one was relatively tame (BTW, I wouldn't blame you if you had a phobia about beaches -- it would be well deserved after that experience with your brother) But...rather than debating the issues surrounding kids at the beach, maybe we could go back to my Crayola factory example ie. that the Gosselin kids were the only ones there that weren't allowed to use the markers. I wasn't watching the show at the time, but there are plenty of clips of it on the internet.

 

[OceanAnnie]

So does that mean those of you who sympathize with Jon is due to the fact "they see themselves in him" or are defending "the way they act to their own families"?

I was wondering that myself!

Neither Jon or Kate are problem free. I sympathize with Kate, primarily because of the very public, "carrying on" Jon has been doing. It has to be humiliating. He could've handled himself better. There is no excuse for that.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Well, at the time they were only at the shoreline, and there were plenty of kids out a lot further. Each beach is different and I think that one was relatively tame (BTW, I wouldn't blame you if you had a phobia about beaches -- it would be well deserved after that experience with your brother) But...rather than debating the issues surrounding kids at the beach, maybe we could go back to my Crayola factory example ie. that the Gosselin kids were the only ones there that weren't allowed to use the markers. I wasn't watching the show at the time, but there are plenty of clips of it on the internet.

You made some interesting points and while I do sympathize with Kate, I certainly didn't agree with the times she spoke rudely to Jon or over reacted in a situation with the kids. Then again I don't agree with Jon snipping back at Kate either. I guess the main reason I'm sympathetic with Kate is that I *think* Jon did have that affair and didn't appear willing to work on their marriage.

With all of that said, BOTH J&K have irritating characteristics but I for one have never doubted their love for their kids. It is sad that the marriage couldn't be salvaged.

I remember the Crayola Factory episode. Markers make me crazy and I've only let my kids use them from the time they were about 6 since I was tired of stained clothing. That part didn't bug me but I did find it annoying how she was yelling across the place. I've said before, it's like Kate is sometimes in her own world and doesn't notice her surroundings. I wouldn't dream of screaming like she did at a place like that (or Toys R Us, remember that one?). I just think she gets so wrapped up in what she's doing and handling the kids that she isn't aware how LOUD she is.

 

[redrosesix]

You made some interesting points and while I do sympathize with Kate, I certainly didn't agree with the times she spoke rudely to Jon or over reacted in a situation with the kids. Then again I don't agree with Jon snipping back at Kate either. I guess the main reason I'm sympathetic with Kate is that I *think* Jon did have that affair and didn't appear willing to work on their marriage.

With all of that said, BOTH J&K have irritating characteristics but I for one have never doubted their love for their kids. It is sad that the marriage couldn't be salvaged.

I remember the Crayola Factory episode. Markers make me crazy and I've only let my kids use them from the time they were about 6 since I was tired of stained clothing. That part didn't bug me but I did find it annoying how she was yelling across the place. I've said before, it's like Kate is sometimes in her own world and doesn't notice her surroundings. I wouldn't dream of screaming like she did at a place like that (or Toys R Us, remember that one?). I just think she gets so wrapped up in what she's doing and handling the kids that she isn't aware how LOUD she is.

At the time of that episode, the twins were 8? not sure -- the video links say Season 3. Here, the kids use markers in school starting at age 5, and DD used them in daycare before that, so I maybe I saw it very differently. But, you're talking about using markers at home, right? -- we would all probably do it differently than Kate if we were taking our kids to the Crayola factory ie. wear clothes that we didn't have to worry about so much. Jon's sniping in the moment was, again, highly ineffective -- if he was playing more of a lead role in the raising of his kids (rather than letting Kate and TLC decide everything) he should have made his views re using markers, etc, known before the trip eg. "Well, Kate, if we're going to the Crayola factory let's have the kids wear clothes that won't stain and let them enjoy themselves. I don't care what they look like on camera."

And you're right -- she is too loud. DH would be mortified if I ever did that to him (and he's a drummer, so it wouldn't seem as loud to him LOL) He would be really irritated if somebody was doing that while we were trying to enjoy a family outing, and he would be fuming if somebody was doing that during one of his shows. I'll have to go and find the clip for Toys r Us LOL

To some extent, I'm more disappointed in the behaviour they're modelling to their children. So when their kids are loud in public, nasty to each other, ignoring each other, they have nobody to blame but themselves. It won't be long before their behaviour comes back to haunt them -- I hope they catch it on camera the first time one of the kids tells Kate "I don't trust your judgement" (a common thing she says to Jon, in front of the kids)

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

I don't think it will work either. Who will want to hire Jon for 4 days only unless he works 7am - 7pm? Then what is the point of being in NYC if he misses out on all the party time in the city by being back in PA on the weekends. So he gets to be fun dad all weekend and then mom comes home and makes the kids go to school. I just can't see Kate allowing some girlfriend there to play house with her kids all weekend.

I wouldn't want boyfriend's or girlfriend's staying over either. Not only that, but who pays the electric bill, cable, groceries, etc.

What if Jon buys his favorite ice cream and Kate eats it? Even the little things make this situation impossible in my opinion.

 

[KristiKelly]

So does that mean those of you who sympathize with Jon is due to the fact "they see themselves in him" or are defending "the way they act to their own families"?



We went to the beach numerous times when my kids were little, all of them under age 5 and I remember being paranoid that a wave was going to sweep them away. I wouldn't have attempted to take all 3 in the water at once. Kate having Jon only take 2 of his at a time just seems safe and logical to me. My youngest brother was caught in a riptide when he was only 5 and it freaked me out! So I don't think Kate was OCD for that one.

I live in NC, we have usually spent our beach vacations at either Myrtle Beach, SC or Atlantic Beach, NC. A couple of years ago we took our kids to the Outerbanks (Hatteras), I will say the ocean was much, much rougher than anywhere I've experienced. I don't know why. I have never had a problem with Dh taking our kids into the water but he got really worried when a wave smacked our dd (then 2) so hard that her thought it hurt her neck. I think there's a difference in being OCD and being a cautious mom.

 

[nuke]

You made some interesting points and while I do sympathize with Kate, I certainly didn't agree with the times she spoke rudely to Jon or over reacted in a situation with the kids. Then again I don't agree with Jon snipping back at Kate either. I guess the main reason I'm sympathetic with Kate is that I *think* Jon did have that affair and didn't appear willing to work on their marriage.

With all of that said, BOTH J&K have irritating characteristics but I for one have never doubted their love for their kids. It is sad that the marriage couldn't be salvaged.

I remember the Crayola Factory episode. Markers make me crazy and I've only let my kids use them from the time they were about 6 since I was tired of stained clothing. That part didn't bug me but I did find it annoying how she was yelling across the place. I've said before, it's like Kate is sometimes in her own world and doesn't notice her surroundings. I wouldn't dream of screaming like she did at a place like that (or Toys R Us, remember that one?). I just think she gets so wrapped up in what she's doing and handling the kids that she isn't aware how LOUD she is.

you bring up a good point about her being wrapped up in herself. But Jon told her that he was embarrassed by her screaming at him at Toys R Us. It's fine to be wrapped up in yourself but when someone you supposedly love is telling you that your behavior irritated them you should take a step back and evaluate.

 

[redrosesix]

you bring up a good point about her being wrapped up in herself. But Jon told her that he was embarrassed by her screaming at him at Toys R Us. It's fine to be wrapped up in yourself but when someone you supposedly love is telling you that your behavior irritated them you should take a step back and evaluate.

Good advice. And when you watch the couch sessions that people have posted on Youtube, I'd say this was Kate's biggest mistake -- she didn't ever seem to want to back off, no matter what he said.

All of these types of incidents can happen in any marriage, but the fact that they are all very public must make it harder to take.

 

[DMRick]

Not that I think it made a difference in the future, since she has yelled out to him since, but was that the time he did tell her in the parking lot he was embarrassed and she seemed so surprised? I can't remember what she said..did she say she was sorry?
No excuse for her from me, for the yelling, and I don't remember where I read it, but I thought someone said it isn't as loud as we hear, since they are mic'd up and we get the full effect.
Maybe as she looks back, she will realize the times she made him feel bad (and he her). I still hope they can heal, and go for help, but I think it's been over way before any of the 'Jon..yahoo, Jon's" happened.

you bring up a good point about her being wrapped up in herself. But Jon told her that he was embarrassed by her screaming at him at Toys R Us. It's fine to be wrapped up in yourself but when someone you supposedly love is telling you that your behavior irritated them you should take a step back and evaluate.

 

[ksjayhawks]

I would think Kate should be able to have some weekends with the kids. They'll be in school all day doing homework all night. M-Th aren't much fun--I'd want some free time in that schedule if I was her.

I had friends that kept their kids in the family home and they each had a small 1 bedroom apartment. They would switch Sundays at noon and each had the kids for a whole week at a time. They gave the master bedroom to their two girls, son kept his room; then they each had a small bedroom with a lock on it. It worked out great for them.

 

[redrosesix]

I had friends that kept their kids in the family home and they each had a small 1 bedroom apartment. They would switch Sundays at noon and each had the kids for a whole week at a time. They gave the master bedroom to their two girls, son kept his room; then they each had a small bedroom with a lock on it. It worked out great for them.

I like this idea -- each have their own bedroom -- great!

I suppose if the parents are happy with the arrangement, the kids will like it too.

 

[Buckalew11]

So does that mean those of you who sympathize with Jon is due to the fact "they see themselves in him" or are defending "the way they act to their own families"?

It is starting to all make sense...

I had friends that kept their kids in the family home and they each had a small 1 bedroom apartment. They would switch Sundays at noon and each had the kids for a whole week at a time. They gave the master bedroom to their two girls, son kept his room; then they each had a small bedroom with a lock on it. It worked out great for them.

That is the way I envisioned this---sharing the house. And your suggustion of a week and a time sounds good too. Maybe Jon's work can be done at home some too? That would help him be able to stay with the kids through the week while they are in school. He'd have to have a lot of self discipline for that to work, but maybe, possibly...for the kids.

Ocean) we went to DVC's VB last oct. and you talk about some rough water. good gracious! I grew up on the beach in NJ and I thought that ocean was rough compared to MB, SC, HHI, SC, and Sunset Beach in NC---but no! VB was probably the roguhest water I have ever entered into. And I'll probably never go back there either.

 

[kidshop]

Good advice. And when you watch the couch sessions that people have posted on Youtube, I'd say this was Kate's biggest mistake -- she didn't ever seem to want to back off, no matter what he said.

All of these types of incidents can happen in any marriage, but the fact that they are all very public must make it harder to take.

I think Kate's attitude is that this is how she is and so what? I never saw her make any attempt to treat people nicely (especially Jon), except her lame comment about once again keeping her mouth shut about the placement of the crooked houses. We saw how long that lasted!

At the TLC Jon and kate page there is a statement:

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv/jon-and-kate/statement-from-jon-and-kate.html

During this very difficult time we will be working to focus solely on the needs of our family. This includes no longer commenting publicly or reacting to media stories and speculation. Our goal is to do the very best for our children and that will be done as privately as possible. We appreciate the understanding, support and well wishes from so many.

Thank you.

So People mag is considered private these days?

 

[madge]

I think Kate's attitude is that this is how she is and so what? I never saw her make any attempt to treat people nicely (especially Jon), except her lame comment about once again keeping her mouth shut about the placement of the crooked houses. We saw how long that lasted!

At the TLC Jon and kate page there is a statement:

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv/jon-and-kate/statement-from-jon-and-kate.html

During this very difficult time we will be working to focus solely on the needs of our family. This includes no longer commenting publicly or reacting to media stories and speculation. Our goal is to do the very best for our children and that will be done as privately as possible. We appreciate the understanding, support and well wishes from so many.

Thank you.

So People mag is considered private these days?

that is new .. as in the last few days. I can't remember which day this week I checked TLC about something, and it wasn't there.

now. with that said, I wonder if they sent something similar out to the mainstream media, LOL ... not that it matters, they are afterthoughts now. It's all about Michael Jackson, now.

 

[phamton]

Not that I think it made a difference in the future, since she has yelled out to him since, but was that the time he did tell her in the parking lot he was embarrassed and she seemed so surprised? I can't remember what she said..did she say she was sorry?

That was at Toys R Us when they were buying Christmas gifts. I don't remember hearing her apologize. Jon said he felt like he was being treated like a dog.

No excuse for her from me, for the yelling, and I don't remember where I read it, but I thought someone said it isn't as loud as we hear, since they are mic'd up and we get the full effect.

That may be but she was loud enough that other people in the store were staring.

 

[MichelleVW]

That may be but she was loud enough that other people in the store were staring.

There was also a film crew following her....that makes people stare too.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Not that I think it made a difference in the future, since she has yelled out to him since, but was that the time he did tell her in the parking lot he was embarrassed and she seemed so surprised? I can't remember what she said..did she say she was sorry?
No excuse for her from me, for the yelling, and I don't remember where I read it, but I thought someone said it isn't as loud as we hear, since they are mic'd up and we get the full effect.
Maybe as she looks back, she will realize the times she made him feel bad (and he her). I still hope they can heal, and go for help, but I think it's been over way before any of the 'Jon..yahoo, Jon's" happened.

That was at Toys R Us when they were buying Christmas gifts. I don't remember hearing her apologize. Jon said he felt like he was being treated like a dog.

That may be but she was loud enough that other people in the store were staring.

Here's the youtube clip of the Toys R Us episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCLd5M9zcdg&feature=related

Kate was acting pretty annoying in that she was screaming for Jon and berating him. He was very embarassed and told her how he felt. He said it hurts him and makes Kate look horrible and he knows she's a better person than that. She apologized to Jon and said she didn't even notice the other people. When she is somewhere she said she doesn't see other people around her. She apologized again by saying I'm sorry, I like you. I felt it was a genuine apology. But it perfectly illustrates how she does get wrapped up in herself when they're out.