Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread-Part 3

[themilesfamily]

I think they are already seperated

That's the impression I got, as well. It sounds to me like they're just trying to get the details worked out.

 

[C.Ann]

I'm really confused about who did/didn't cheat - who had/didn't have the 'right" to do so.. Who cares?? Jon & Kate are adults - they can take care of themselves..

The concern should be with the children - and what they are being exposed to.. After tonight's show - and Kate's own comments to her children, (as well as the little one saying, "Daddy, I don't want you to go away anymore..") people can no longer say that the children are "unaware" - or being "sheltered" from what is going on..

What's more important? Their children or the show? Obviously the show.. Kate made her intentions crystal clear - therefore I can't work up one ounce of sympathy for her.. If Jon continues to be a part of it, he's no better..

 

[ksjayhawks]

I caught some of the reruns here and there. Now that we know all this has been going on since last November or so, it is interesting to look at the last shows and j/k's interactions, interviews, etc. You can pick up on some subtle differences in their behavior toward each other.

I also wonder if the vow renewal wasn't an attempt to help salvage the marriage.

Could they be legally separated? If so, maybe that is what he means by not cheating. Legally, perhaps he didn't; morally, that is another story.

I wonder what the guests had to think about j/k interactions at the party.

I am glad that the kids seemed to have a good time. Poor madi/cara--they are probably carrying more of the burden than they should.

Time to pull the plug on the show. Someone mentioned about the lifestyle they were used to--kids are flexible and young, they could go back to a much smaller house and scaled back lifestyle that would allow mom and dad to be there. They don't need the matching designer clothes, fancy trips and outings, etc. They can go to college like a lot of kids do--loans, scholarships, grants, working, taking 5 or 6 years to do it.

Jon mentioned that his mom said you always have choices in life. That is true and now he and Kate need to figure out how to make the best of the choices they have made and the consequences--good and bad--that have resulted due to these choices.

 

[chrisann]

ok i just listened to this again on the repeat episode and this really bugs me because it truly shows what a liar and manipulator kate is:

kate "the paparazzi is coming after, good park job huh"

joel "whats paperotzee"

kate "shhh, dont say the word"

now her interview comment
"when you pull into the party store and your unloading you kids and your five year old joel, yells oh there is the paparazzi"

he did not say that he couldn't even say the word, and obviously was asking what the word meant it was just her self absorbed manipulated version of what he said

I was wondering about that and wondered if anybody else caught it.

Was it just me, or did Kate do a great job of constantly reminding us that she was doing this all by herself and playing the martyr! Don't get me wrong, if Jon cheated, he deserves whatever wrath is coming to him, but I can totally see her as reminding him every single moment that she is the better parent and he made a horrible mistake. For that reason alone, they shouldn't get back togther. I would think that if you choose to make your marriage work after something like this happens, you need to be able to let go of a lot of that anger and forgive. If you can't do that, that's fine but don't stay in the marriage.

On a side note, because I've been watching the marathon off and on all weekend and then the premiere tonight, it made me very sad that these 2 people or any 2 people really, can go from so much love for each other, to hate and blame for each other. I think it's hard for all of us because other than having the 8 little ones, we could all relate to them as parents and could appreciate their ups and downs as we would our own. I think with or wothout the tv show, if it was going to happen it was going to happen, Actually, maybe they've lasted this long BECAUSE of the tv show. The stresses they had these past 5 years had nothing to do with money and that would have been theown in there too!

It is just heartbreaking because the kids really do seem close to both parents and it will affect their lives forever.

 

[DMRick]

Do not most of us here realize that this was edited by TLC? The way they wanted us to see it? I don't know Jon or Kate's entire conversations. I don't know all that the kids might have said when getting out of the car at the store, since there were 'cuts' (but better to call Kate a liar, since some of you do know what isn't on the cutting room floor). I have no idea if they talked to each other during the party. We saw what TLC wanted us to see (although if I was hurting over my hubby having a possible affair, I wouldn't have been talking to him either).

I've heard some of your stories over the years. There have been some bad stuff that has happened to some of you. Bad decisions, divorces, money problems, child problems, medical problems, in law problems, etc. played right out on this board. Sometimes there was so much info given, I PM'd you to suggest some of it be removed, since I thought it could be figured out, who you were in real live. You know what? I heard only what you wanted me to hear because you were doing the editing and producing. We are only hearing what TLC wants us to hear. If Jon is snotty to Kate, or Kate is snotty to Jon..that's what they wanted us to hear. If TLC wants us to be on Kate's side, that's the way they will edit and vice versa John.

As for the kids being sheltered..I never once said that they would be sheltered from all of that. I did say their parents love them and are trying to do what is best for them, and shelter them the best they know how, and still give their kids advantages. It's so easy to say what we would have done, but we weren't there and it wasn't offered to us.

I wonder if this marriage would have lasted even if there wasn't a show. Do I wish they had the divorce parts after the regular show? You betcha, but that's what happens when TLC decides what we are going to see. It's a reality show, and we are seeing the reality. 60% of all marriages end in divorce and from what I have found on the internet, 70-75% of parents of multiples or the death of a child divorce. I'm not sure what we all signed up for when we watched this show, but I guess it wasn't reality.

I hope this marriage can be salvaged, but I don't think stopping the show will salvage it. I think their lifestyle would change greatly, somehow that will be Kate's fault, and Jon would still not be happy.

 

[princessjv]

Having watched the show since it's beginning, never really paying attention to the "rumors", until recently, I had felt that there was a difference about Jon & Kate for some time. I decided to watch the TLC rerun weekend in it's entirety to see where I felt it happened.

Since the beginning I have always had a "laugh" at the way Kate treated Jon. In the beginning he almost seemed to "like" being the butt of the joke. Kate has always been quick to correct Jon, but at the same time was always pleasant and "loving" about it.

As I watched the seasons play out, it was very clear that Kate's corrections and remarks toward Jon took a turn to more negative. No longer was there the "loving remark" after the corrections. She started taking center stage during interviews, snapping at Jon when he'd try to interject comments during their interviews and not speak until Kate would snide him for not speaking. Jon was always reluctant to speak up for himself. That was his choice.


As I watched the episode tonight, it was clear that the Kate was now trying to portray herself in a very different light than the camera's had depicted over the last few years. She spoke calmer, there were few snide remarks, she played with her children and didn't "boss around" either Jon or any of the "friends" who were there to help with the party. She even admitted to her dislike for fans in their lives ... It was a very different Kate than had been shown in a long, long time.

I'd be surprised if Kate wasn't trying to play the "victim" in the problems her and Jon are having. Not to say that IF Jon had an affair that it was okay to do so... because that absolutely would not be okay. If Jon was unhappy he needed to make a stronger stance against keeping with the show. In the end of last season they stated he was not wanting to do it anymore. Then he shouldn't have done this season... If Kate's pushiness had pushed him to his break, it was his responsibility to step up and get out.

But Kate can't play victim. She has treated her husband and those around her like crud for years. People can only take so much and at some point they break. Jon Broke. The show stopped being about a family with 8 children being as normal as they could, with the same challenges of any family (and different) and more about the freebies they were getting, vacations they were taking, toys and appliances they were promoting.

The show is a business. At some point about a season in a half ago it became the Jon & Kate plus 8 business. Documenting of their children's childhood has turned into their business and Kate's career.

Will Jon and Kate divorce? It remains to be shared with their fans.


Will TLC continue to air the challenges that the family is going through? You bet! It's not only the business of a reality show, it's the reality of what is happening in Jon & Kate's lives. Hopefully someone will learn from Jon & Kate what not to do in their marriage and prevent the same mistakes that they have made.


Will we see a softer side of Kate, with her new found fondness of fans and expression of gratitude? You bet we will! She is really no dumby... she is trying to reinvent herself in the public's eyes.


No matter what, the show is reality. The same reality of millions of families who too are struggling with their marriages and challenges of raising children.

 

[Buckalew11]

I caught the same thing... although I didn't react quite as strongly

I caught that also. I think kate was so fired up about them that it just flew out of her mouth. I think she is really hating them and I don't blame her. I don't buy them or read them and I wish they'd go away.


And you know, I can see TLC going ahead with a Kate plus 8 type of show. I mean, what is America's divorce rate? 50%? 60%? it is high so a lot of people can definitely relate to such a theme. Jon could have his own show too. Jon plus 8 Dates. I know, that was uncalled for.
Honestly, I think it'll take a miracle for this couple to work things out. I also wonder why they are standing with their faith, church, and God right now.

 

[eyeheartgoofy]

She said she hated treat bags and she thought most other parents did, too. She hates the stuff that gets brought home in treat bags.
Why not just enjoy filling treat bags with your two daughters -- who seemed to be enjoying the process -- why immediately turn it into something negative -- "I hate this. I hate that." How about talk to your daughters instead of talking to the cameraman to make sure all of America knows how much you hate what you're doing.

Okay, for once, I was with Kate on this 110%!!! I hate when my kids bring home treat bags ... crappy $0.25 toys that break in 10 minutes (and then we cry b/c they break) and candy that they are begging to eat (like they need more sweets after a b-day party). And, of course, the jealousy the non-invited child in the family already feels over the B-day party is intensified when they see the goody bag from the party. And, like Kate, I suck it up and make treat bags for my kids' parties b/c it is expected by the kids.

 

[bambii]

they both have always said it is about the kids that is MISTAKE number ONE.. your spouse come before your kids..

 

[3prettyprincesses]

I'm really confused about who did/didn't cheat - who had/didn't have the 'right" to do so.. Who cares?? Jon & Kate are adults - they can take care of themselves..

The concern should be with the children - and what they are being exposed to.. After tonight's show - and Kate's own comments to her children, (as well as the little one saying, "Daddy, I don't want you to go away anymore..") people can no longer say that the children are "unaware" - or being "sheltered" from what is going on..

What's more important? Their children or the show? Obviously the show.. Kate made her intentions crystal clear - therefore I can't work up one ounce of sympathy for her.. If Jon continues to be a part of it, he's no better..

Excellent point, Kate said in her Larry King (or was it the Today Show) that the kids were unaware. That is really hard to believe and it makes me sad for them. I just can't understand why the show is still a priority in all this mess.

I caught some of the reruns here and there. Now that we know all this has been going on since last November or so, it is interesting to look at the last shows and j/k's interactions, interviews, etc. You can pick up on some subtle differences in their behavior toward each other.

I also wonder if the vow renewal wasn't an attempt to help salvage the marriage.

Could they be legally separated? If so, maybe that is what he means by not cheating. Legally, perhaps he didn't; morally, that is another story.

I wonder what the guests had to think about j/k interactions at the party.

I am glad that the kids seemed to have a good time. Poor madi/cara--they are probably carrying more of the burden than they should.

Time to pull the plug on the show. Someone mentioned about the lifestyle they were used to--kids are flexible and young, they could go back to a much smaller house and scaled back lifestyle that would allow mom and dad to be there. They don't need the matching designer clothes, fancy trips and outings, etc. They can go to college like a lot of kids do--loans, scholarships, grants, working, taking 5 or 6 years to do it.

Jon mentioned that his mom said you always have choices in life. That is true and now he and Kate need to figure out how to make the best of the choices they have made and the consequences--good and bad--that have resulted due to these choices.

I think too that Cara & Mady are dealing with far more than we know. Tonight they seemed quiet and withdrawn (not in a bad more, more sad I guess). I hope they have someone they can talk to beside J&K. Those poor kids, they certainly didn't sign on for this did they?

 

[DMRick]

You're right, she did comment on the junk inside of the bags, as well as the time to put them together.

She said she hated treat bags and she thought most other parents did, too. She hates the stuff that gets brought home in treat bags.

 

[themilesfamily]

What's more important? Their children or the show? Obviously the show..

I agree. And I wish they would both stop saying, "It's all for the kids. We do it for the kids. Everything for the kids."

What kind of burden is that going to put on the backs of those eight kids when their family is no more -- are they going to someday think, "Well, mom and dad did it all for us. Look what they had to sacrifice for us -- their marriage, our family" Like that isn't going to make those kids feel guilty? That they are somehow to blame.

Jon & Kate are no martyrs -- every bad decision they've made on their own. They need to stop rationalizing it by using the kids as some kind of explanation.

 

[DMRick]

I don't get that either and it seems to be that way with all the Kate supporters.

It's not that way with me. Neither of them should be cheating.

As for being a Kate supporter, I'm more a disgusted with Jon person. As I said, I really paid attention to the repeats and saw the man I had always supported in a much different light.

As far as the kids being unaware, Jon or Kate (I can't remember which) did say they have now talked to them.

 

[chrisann]

one more thing, I noticed this weekend. In some of the episodes, Jon made reference to his Dad. Now I haven't watched all 4 seasons so I don't know, but if Jon was as close to his dad, this may have been an stretched out and overdue situation. For some people losing a loved one while still having a chaotic life can really change you as a person forever, trust me I know. Maybe before his father's death, he was okay with things, but after, gradually things just seemed to make less and less sense. Let's face it, he didn't have much say in almost anything that ever happened in that household. I don't know, just a thought!

 

[3prettyprincesses]

It's not that way with me. Neither of them should be cheating.

As for being a Kate supporter, I'm more a disgusted with Jon person. As I said, I really paid attention to the repeats and saw the man I had always supported in a much different light.

As far as the kids being unaware, Jon or Kate (I can't remember which) did say they have now talked to them.

They did? I missed that. Was it on tonight that they said so? Oh that is so sad for the twins.

 

[eyeheartgoofy]

Do not most of us here realize that this was edited by TLC? The way they wanted us to see it?

Yep. And I wholeheartedly feel that, tonight, TLC wanted us to see Kate as a super strong woman who will do anything in her power to provide for her kids. Kate is supermom ... LOOK! She took her own kids to a store! LOOK! She fed her own kids a meal! LOOK! SHE DID IT ALL WITHOUT JON'S HELP!

So, tune in next season for: Kate and her 8. (because we don't need Jon to have a hit show, right? RIGHT????? Please, someone tell us we are right b/c we all upgraded our homes as well, and if this show doesn't continue, our a**#$ are toast)

 

[chrisann]

Excellent point, Kate said in her Larry King (or was it the Today Show) that the kids were unaware. That is really hard to believe and it makes me sad for them. I just can't understand why the show is still a priority in all this mess.



I think too that Cara & Mady are dealing with far more than we know. Tonight they seemed quiet and withdrawn (not in a bad more, more sad I guess). I hope they have someone they can talk to beside J&K. Those poor kids, they certainly didn't sign on for this did they?

That is so true!! Hopefully one or both of their parents are seeking out a professional they can talk to.

 

[crazee4mickey]

I agree. And I wish they would both stop saying, "It's all for the kids. We do it for the kids. Everything for the kids."

What kind of burden is that going to put on the backs of those eight kids when their family is no more -- are they going to someday think, "Well, mom and dad did it all for us. Look what they had to sacrifice for us -- their marriage, our family" Like that isn't going to make those kids feel guilty? That they are somehow to blame.

Jon & Kate are no martyrs -- every bad decision they've made on their own. Stop rationalizing it by using the kids as some kind of explanation.

ITA! I just can't believe they keep filming---won't it be nice for the kids to look back at reruns and watch their family fall apart.

Jon just seems so unhappy especially when he remarked something about how he didn't choose the being at home, it was chosen for him. Of course it was...Kate has stars in her eyes and is willing to sacrifice her family for a TV show and her own success.

So very sad for those poor little children......

 

[DMRick]

They did? I missed that. Was it on tonight that they said so? Oh that is so sad for the twins.

Yes, it was tonight. I played it back right after it was said. I thought it was John, but I was trying to catch so many things, I'm no longer sure. I thought he said all of the kids, but he mentioned Cara and Mady more. It was very short. Just about what they were going through. He didn't say they were separated or getting divorced.
One of you still watching it, can you see if you can catch that?

 

[ORMom2Four]

I thought Jon seemed totally checked out of the relationship. I thought kate seemed like she herself was not giving up. I didn't think he seemed drugged. I thought he seemed cold and uncaring. The marriage didn't seem to mean anything to him on tonight's episode.

I thought the scene with him and the DD was so very sad. "Daddy, I don't want you to leave anymore." His reaction was so blah. Like well, I'm gonna do what I'd going to do. Talk about helpless and hopeless. It seems that way tonight. I hope this get better as we see other episodes. We know he doesn't do Kate's b-day with them at Charm City, right? He does the chopper one though.

I would never defend what Jon did. I think cheating is HORRIBLE!

That being said, Jon didn't seem drugged or cold & uncaring to me. He looks and acts like a person who is very, very depressed. He has looked that way for at least the past year or so, but it's even more pronounced now.

I hope he and the entire family is getting some mental health help during this difficult time.

That will be the last Jon & Kate that I watch. I hope they stop taping, stop the touring and work on repairing their marriage and family.