John McCain is a Socialist

[Biscuitsmom31]

Have you read Obama's writings? Have you listened to his previous speeches and interviews dating back all the way to 2001? I'm sorry like I said I love the man but he expounds "Marxist" views left and right. You can throw your Dictionary out the window because when the term "Socialism" is used one is referencing Karl Marx's view of the ideal Society and anyone who has taken Sociology 101 or Cultural Anthropology 101 or even done a little bit of research would see that.

I don't really really think McCain is a socialist, so why do you continue to defend him? I was referring to Obama being called a socialist for taxing one group of people and giving the proceeds to another. McCain is doing the same thing when he wants to tax insurance benefits.

 

["Got Disney"]

No more laughable that Obama being one.

Obama may not be a socialist but his ideas are.....if he implements what he says he wants than yes he will be a socialist.....to some that will bother and to others it wont....just depends on what you want to achieve in the good ole USA.....

If you want larger Government and for them to tell you what you can do and not do and take your money as they see fit and put it where they choose and tell you how much you can make and so on...than yes you will be happy with Obama or any other representative that wants to run your life for you and feed you and take care of you financially...than go for it...

No thank you here....I prefer to run my own life and not let GOV do it for me.

Here read this...sound familure... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.[1]



if this one doesnt fit Obama i dont know what does....

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/551569/socialism

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

capitalism[/URL] unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.[1]



if this one doesnt fit Obama i dont know what does....

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/551569/socialism

The very first line in the Britannica link says the same thing I posted, public ownership of interests instead of private. We will still own our homes and businesses, no matter which person we elect.

Again, I was trying to point out that McCain wishes to take money via taxes and redistribute it - the same thing many have been claiming makes Obama a socialist.

 

[Goofyluver]

Biscuit.

I made this point the other day on another thread.

Some people refuse to see the irony.

McCain's refundable tax credit for health care costs will be given whether or not the person files or pays income tax.

Sounds socalist to me.

I've said this before and I'll say it again...

If concern for my fellow man makes me a socialist...or anyone else for that matter...then please call me whatever you want. I'll tattoo socialist on my forehead.

This is all becoming so ridiculous...viewing things through clouded lenses as some do.

 

["Got Disney"]

Of course not. I'm just making the point that McCain is just as guilty of taking money from one person and giving it to someone else.

your ideology is off...he is not taking moneys to just give to one group of persons as Obama is....Obama is taking from those making $250,000 and up and feeding it to the Able working Middle class.....that is taking from one and giving it to another...

McCain's money is cut from all....and offered to all....not just offered to one group of people....all can apply for it....not just the ones making below $250,000

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";28433169]your ideology is off...he is not taking moneys to just give to one group of persons as Obama is....Obama is taking from those making $250,000 and up and feeding it to the Able working Middle class.....that is taking from one and giving it to another...

McCain's money is cut from all....and offered to all....not just offered to one group of people....all can apply for it....not just the ones making below $250,000[/QUOTE]

It's still taking money and redistributing it as "he sees fit". The exact words Palin has been driving this home in her speeches.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

Biscuit.

I made this point the other day on another thread.

Some people refuse to see the irony.

McCain's refundable tax credit for health care costs will be given whether or not the person files or pays income tax.

Sounds socalist to me.

I've said this before and I'll say it again...

If concern for my fellow man makes me a socialist...or anyone else for that matter...then please call me whatever you want. I'll tattoo socialist on my forehead.

This is all becoming so ridiculous...viewing things through clouded lenses as some do.

Oh well.

 

[metalis4ever]

Here's the old Marxist thing again. Okay, how much of Mark's writings have you read? Taking a 101 class doesn't count. I'm guessing not much. Which means, generally, you have no idea of what you are being told on talking points on Fake News has any real value at all.

Actually not that it matters but I have a Bachelor's Degree in Cultural Anthropology. Furthermore, Karl Marx derived his theory on society by observing and studying egalitarian societies in which the overall strenght and sucess of a society is defined by the work put forth by the collective unit and the ability and willingness of the population to provide for those who are unable and in turn receive equal wealth, food, clothing, materials, housing etc.... Paraphrasing an Obama interview from 2001 "the greatest tradgedy of the Civil Rights movement is that there wasn't a redistribution of wealth". That alone is enough evidence, however when one looks at his current Health care policy as well as his tax policy one would again see through to the redistribution undertones of said policies. Therefore, when one references his "Marxist" views one can clearly see that they are refering to Karl Marx's view of an ideal Society "From each, according to his ability, to each, according to his need" not his other philisophical theories regarding business i.e. "sell a man a fish, and he has eaten for a day, teach a man how to fish and you have ruined a wonderful business opporunity" ...So yes Obama does have "Marxist" views it is not a picture painted by the mainstream media it is reality..LIke I said Obama has my vote but unlike some people I refuse to keep the blinders on......

And since we are on a Marx kick:
"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.” - Karl Marx

 

[kinntj]

Of course not. I'm just making the point that McCain is just as guilty of taking money from one person and giving it to someone else.

Their love for McCain is such that he could do no wrong.

 

[kinntj]

Actually not that it matters but I have a Bachelor's Degree in Cultural Anthropology. Furthermore, Karl Marx derived his theory on society by observing and studying egalitarian societies in which the overall strenght and sucess of a society is defined by the work put forth by the collective unit and the ability and willingness of the population to provide for those who are unable and in turn receive equal wealth, food, clothing, materials, housing etc.... Paraphrasing an Obama interview from 2001 "the greatest tradgedy of the Civil Rights movement is that there wasn't a redistribution of wealth". That alone is enough evidence, however when one looks at his current Health care policy as well as his tax policy one would again see through to the redistribution undertones of said policies. Therefore, when one references his "Marxist" views one can clearly see that they are refering to Karl Marx's view of an ideal Society "From each, according to his ability, to each, according to his need" not his other philisophical theories regarding business i.e. "sell a man a fish, and he has eaten for a day, teach a man how to fish and you have ruined a wonderful business opporunity" ...So yes Obama does have "Marxist" views it is not a picture painted by the mainstream media it is reality..LIke I said Obama has my vote but unlike some people I refuse to keep the blinders on......ohh and it's Marx not "Mark's" ..

And since we are on a Marx kick:
"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.” - Karl Marx

Why in the World are you voting for Obama? You shed him in such bad light. Not that I think he's everything in the World either, but I really don't think that Obama is a Socialist and I'm sorry you are wrong.

 

[wardfamily1]

Actually not that it matters but I have a Bachelor's Degree in Cultural Anthropology. Furthermore, Karl Marx derived his theory on society by observing and studying egalitarian societies in which the overall strenght and sucess of a society is defined by the work put forth by the collective unit and the ability and willingness of the population to provide for those who are unable and in turn receive equal wealth, food, clothing, materials, housing etc.... Paraphrasing an Obama interview from 2001 "the greatest tradgedy of the Civil Rights movement is that there wasn't a redistribution of wealth". That alone is enough evidence, however when one looks at his current Health care policy as well as his tax policy one would again see through to the redistribution undertones of said policies. Therefore, when one references his "Marxist" views one can clearly see that they are refering to Karl Marx's view of an ideal Society "From each, according to his ability, to each, according to his need" not his other philisophical theories regarding business i.e. "sell a man a fish, and he has eaten for a day, teach a man how to fish and you have ruined a wonderful business opporunity" ...So yes Obama does have "Marxist" views it is not a picture painted by the mainstream media it is reality..LIke I said Obama has my vote but unlike some people I refuse to keep the blinders on......

And since we are on a Marx kick:
"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.” - Karl Marx

So you are telling us you support Marxism?

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Why in the World are you voting for Obama? You shed him in such bad light. Not that I think he's everything in the World either, but I really don't think that Obama is a Socialist and I'm sorry you are wrong.

Not everyone thinks that Socialism is a dirty word.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

So you are telling us you support Marxism?

There are citizens who support such ideas. We have a member of Congress who Obama campaigned for, and that is Bernie Sanders of Vermont, and he is the only Senator who belongs to the Socialist Party.

 

["Got Disney"]

The very first line in the Britannica link says the same thing I posted, public ownership of interests instead of private. We will still own our homes and businesses, no matter which person we elect.

Again, I was trying to point out that McCain wishes to take money via taxes and redistribute it - the same thing many have been claiming makes Obama a socialist.

Its not just redistribution of wealth that makes him sound like a socialist is is so many other things also. Sure we will be able to own our own business but at what expense....if you own your own business under Obama and make $250,000 we need to share our profits with the middle class that make below that.....that is telling us that sure you can own your own business BUT after a certain amount you must share it with others...and spread your wealth....

We are not talking about people making millions and millions we are talking about small business owners being penalized for making what he calls to much....
for daring to reach for the American dream......

Obama will most likely win.....and we will than see what he brings to us.....if people like it he will win again in 4 years and if not he will be out of there.....either way I will not be investing in the Market as long as he is POTUS...raising the Capital gains tax from 15% to 28% will keep us from doing that.....and have no doubt that there are many feeling the same way. Not to mention all of the other taxes he is planning on raising....

There was a time I liked Obama till I started to see him.....I am now a McCain supporter

 

[metalis4ever]

Why in the World are you voting for Obama? You shed him in such bad light. Not that I think he's everything in the World either, but I really don't think that Obama is a Socialist and I'm sorry you are wrong.

There is nothing wrong with "Socialism" in theory, it works for Canada doesn't it? You are the one who is assuming that by saying Obama is a "socialist" one is painting him in a bad light. Personally I am voting for Obama because I know that he will keep Religious Dogma out of our Nationalism and that Science and Education will get the funding they deserve. Also with Obama could come funding of Stem Cell Research.

 

[#1hockeymom]

Actually not that it matters but I have a Bachelor's Degree in Cultural Anthropology. Furthermore, Karl Marx derived his theory on society by observing and studying egalitarian societies in which the overall strenght and sucess of a society is defined by the work put forth by the collective unit and the ability and willingness of the population to provide for those who are unable and in turn receive equal wealth, food, clothing, materials, housing etc.... Paraphrasing an Obama interview from 2001 "the greatest tradgedy of the Civil Rights movement is that there wasn't a redistribution of wealth". That alone is enough evidence, however when one looks at his current Health care policy as well as his tax policy one would again see through to the redistribution undertones of said policies. Therefore, when one references his "Marxist" views one can clearly see that they are refering to Karl Marx's view of an ideal Society "From each, according to his ability, to each, according to his need" not his other philisophical theories regarding business i.e. "sell a man a fish, and he has eaten for a day, teach a man how to fish and you have ruined a wonderful business opporunity" ...So yes Obama does have "Marxist" views it is not a picture painted by the mainstream media it is reality..LIke I said Obama has my vote but unlike some people I refuse to keep the blinders on......

And since we are on a Marx kick:
"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.” - Karl Marx

I commend you for explaining this about the party you are voting for. I know we've posted on the same threads before and although I didn't agree with you, you've always come across as knowledgeable and you know what you believe in and why. I respected what you had to post and read it for its content, rather than just to slam it.

The reason I bring this up is it seems on the Con thread, we bring up things we don't like about our candidates on a regular basis. Everyone has their issues and wishes they'd be more right or more left with their views. I never see that from many of the liberals on the board. It seems they speak as one and you don't dare say anything perceived as against getting Obama the vote for POTUS.

I applaud you for your efforts and for escaping the mold!

BTW>> I HATE nafta, but I hate socialism more.

 

[metalis4ever]

So you are telling us you support Marxism?

What is wrong with "Marxism" ? The basis of his theory (Egalitarianism) worked for HomoSapiens for 3/4 of a million years up until the birth of Horticulture and the invention of the plow which eventually gave rise Agriculture 10,000 years ago which made Class based societies possible.

We are a Capitalist Society nothing in the near future (next 4-8 years) is going to change that but a little injection of Socialism in theory wouldn't have a negative impact on our way of life.

 

["Got Disney"]

There is nothing wrong with "Socialism" in theory, it works for Canada doesn't it? You are the one who is assuming that by saying Obama is a "socialist" one is painting him in a bad light. Personally I am voting for Obama because I know that he will keep Religious Dogma out of our Nationalism and that Science and Education will get the funding they deserve. Also with Obama could come funding of Stem Cell Research.

I am for SCR also....but he will also only go so far with that, his religious beliefs will only let him go so far....I dont think he will go any farther than Bush has.....I think it will come back down to another vote from us in order to get more funding.

But it will come maybe not in the next 10 years but it will come. IMO if there are going to be TABS...Therapeutic Abortions...than throwing away what could be used in Research is a total waist IMO...Do one or the other....since abortions are going to be part of our norms than dont let them be just thrown away...use them to help others....

controversial I know....but it is how I feel

 

[MossMan]

America has a system of taxation.

In that system people are taxed at different levels. In other words, some people pay more or less than others depending on a whole host of factors.

McCain and Republicans believe those making more money should be taxed less. The theory is that these wealthy Americans will use tax savings to invest in American business. The investment will lead to a more robust economy and everyone will benefit.

Obama and the Democrats believe those making less money should be taxed less. The theory is that these people will use tax savings to buy the products made by American business. The increase in demand will lead to a more robust economy and everyone will benefit.

Notice that both parties are arguing over the same system. Nobody is talking about changing the system. Both parties are arguing how best to tweak the existing system in order bring about a better economy.

But some people are trying to make the case that one tweak is equal to socialism while the other tweak is capitalism at work. This is absurd. Both parties want to give tax breaks, they just want to give the breaks to different people. Each party supports the current system and both parties agree that tax breaks are a good thing. But for the reasons stated above, both parties want to give tax breaks to different parts of society.

 

[metalis4ever]

I commend you for explaining this about the party you are voting for. I know we've posted on the same threads before and although I didn't agree with you, you've always come across as knowledgeable and you know what you believe in and why. I respected what you had to post and read it for its content, rather than just to slam it.

The reason I bring this up is it seems on the Con thread, we bring up things we don't like about our candidates on a regular basis. Everyone has their issues and wishes they'd be more right or more left with their views. I never see that from many of the liberals on the board. It seems they speak as one and you don't dare say anything perceived as against getting Obama the vote for POTUS.

I applaud you for your efforts and for escaping the mold!

BTW>> I HATE nafta, but I hate socialism more.

Thank you and I must agree NAFTA is pretty useless Who is it really helping? Not the United States that's for sure. I bet you don't really hate "Socialism", I bet you just hate the notion of Big Government, which I can agree with you to an extent. Giving Obama that much power with a Democratic House Majority could potentially send the United States into a downward spiral socially and economically. Having said that in my opinion I think bigger Governement for a short period of time (4 - 8 years) would serve as a Vaccination, in other words firmer regulations on business and banks could right the ship financially and an increase in spending in key social areas could rebuild the foundation of morale that makes the people of The United States strive for greatness. Like I said that would be a short term fix or I should say a starting point, for as Our Economy, Educational System, and Global Standing improves one would want a smaller Government to maintain and let the Country and its People grow and thrive on their own. That is why I would like to see a small dosage of "Socialism" injected into our Capitalist Society.