Jesus wasn't resurrected

[JoyG]

And other prophets have claimed theirs is the only way as well. And? Just because you feel you are right does not make it so. I believe it does not matter which path we take, it only matters how we travel that path and what we do upon it.

And this comment brings me full circle to the beginning of the thread with....

If Jesus wasn't resurrected then I wouldn't be a christian.

You're right...all the other prophets have claimed the same thing...that their path was the way.

However, none of them came back from the dead. If Jesus was just like the rest of them I wouldn't be a christian.

 

[phillybeth]

And this comment brings me full circle to the beginning of the thread with....

If Jesus wasn't resurrected then I wouldn't be a christian.

You're right...all the other prophets have claimed the same thing...that their path was the way.

However, none of them came back from the dead. If Jesus was just like the rest of them I wouldn't be a christian.

So Joy, and Jimmie, and Fitz, and the rest of the Christians on this thread, a rhetorical question:

What will happen, what would you do, if you are presented with absolute, undeniable, irrefutable PROOF that Jesus was not resurrected? Yes, he existed, he preached, he taught. Maybe he even died on the cross. But his mortal remains are found.

 

[magicmato]

And this comment brings me full circle to the beginning of the thread with....

If Jesus wasn't resurrected then I wouldn't be a christian.

You're right...all the other prophets have claimed the same thing...that their path was the way.

However, none of them came back from the dead. If Jesus was just like the rest of them I wouldn't be a christian.

No, they do not, necessarily, have the mythology of rising from the dead (though there are gods in many cultures that indeed did so). But there is not FACT that he rised from the dead. You only have FAITH that he raised from the dead, so using that mythology (because it is faith and not fact) does not change the fact that every religion has "the one true" savior or prophet. The only difference is that Christianity claims theirs rose from the dead.

I am not claiming it is wrong to believe it, just that it is no more or less "right" than the next belief. The only difference is that it works *for you* and it may not work for someone else. I respect your belief and am not trying to lessen it, just noting that every religion could be "the one real true religion".

 

[JoyG]

So Joy, and Jimmie, and Fitz, and the rest of the Christians on this thread, a rhetorical question:

What will happen, what would you do, if you are presented with absolute, undeniable, irrefutable PROOF that Jesus was not resurrected? Yes, he existed, he preached, he taught. Maybe he even died on the cross. But his mortal remains are found.

In order to have undeniable, irrefutable PROOF that Jesus was not resurrected you would first need undeniable, irrefutable PROOF that Jesus lived...and depending on who you talk to that's even debatable.

So there is an element of FAITH that I hold on to.

The faith came first but I have followed it up with historical research of my own. My historical research shows that there was likely a person named Jesus who lived and who appeared to people after his crucifixion. His claims were taken seriously enough by those close to him that after his ascention their lives changed and they professed their beliefs in what they saw even until their greusome deaths.

However, if in some way historians could produce such irrefutable evidence, I've said before that I wouldn't be a christian if he didn't ressurrect. I would leave the faith.

I personally look forward to seeing what Cameron has to say and then to taking his claims and researching myself. That's what I did with Davinci Code and it was fascinating. The thing with this kind of research is, for as many experts you find saying one thing...you'll find just as many experts saying the exact opposite. So that's why I believe you'll never find proof that he didn't resurrect.

 

[cardaway]

No, they do not, necessarily, have the mythology of rising from the dead (though there are gods in many cultures that indeed did so). But there is not FACT that he rised from the dead. You only have FAITH that he raised from the dead, so using that mythology (because it is faith and not fact) does not change the fact that every religion has "the one true" savior or prophet. The only difference is that Christianity claims theirs rose from the dead.

Exactly. There is no such thing as proof of the resurrection outside of stuff that would be discredited if it was a different topic. Basically it's a biased source situation.

 

[magicmato]

Exactly. There is no such thing as proof of the resurrection outside of stuff that would be discredited if it was a different topic. Basically it's a biased source situation.

Oh, I am willing to believe he rose from the dead. It is illogical, but there are many phenomena on the planet that are illogical.

What I always find odd is that there are many (not anyone here, per se), that are more than willing to hold on tight to the belief that a man thousands of years ago rose from the dead, walked on water, etc... who then bash other beliefs because they are "silly" or "fantasy", etc. Look at Wicca. Many of the Christian faith (again, not saying anyone here) consider that to be stupid, foolish, evil. Why? Because they believe in spirits, magic, etc. Erm... Anyone else see the disconnect?

As I have said before, I have ultimate respect for anyone who has a deep and abiding faith, no matter what that faith is (within reason). I am just using these examples as a source of discussion, not necessarily because I hold those beliefs, so please do not flame me.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Exactly. There is no such thing as proof of the resurrection outside of stuff that would be discredited if it was a different topic. Basically it's a biased source situation.

OK I'll bit. Please show me the proof that discredits the resurrection.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Oh, I am willing to believe he rose from the dead. It is illogical, but there are many phenomena on the planet that are illogical.

What I always find odd is that there are many (not anyone here, per se), that are more than willing to hold on tight to the belief that a man thousands of years ago rose from the dead, walked on water, etc... who then bash other beliefs because they are "silly" or "fantasy", etc. Look at Wicca. Many of the Christian faith (again, not saying anyone here) consider that to be stupid, foolish, evil. Why? Because they believe in spirits, magic, etc. Erm... Anyone else see the disconnect?

As I have said before, I have ultimate respect for anyone who has a deep and abiding faith, no matter what that faith is (within reason). I am just using these examples as a source of discussion, not necessarily because I hold those beliefs, so please do not flame me.

...technically Jesus isn't the only person who has ever walked on water anymore.

and the funny thing is, Christianity is based on early Pagan beliefs, but no one seems to want to either admit that, or look into it. i know, that was really random, but hey....this thread is getting a bit off topic anyway lol

 

[magicmato]

OK I'll bit. Please show me the proof that discredits the resurrection.

Oh goodness, not this again. One can no more prove that someone resurrected than disprove it, and we will all just have to accept that. It is called faith for a reason.

 

[JoyG]

OK I'll bit. Please show me the proof that discredits the resurrection.

I think the point Mike was saying is that the "evidence" we have that Jesus was resurrected wouldn't be considered enough evidence if we were say, trying to convict a criminal.

If we were talking about a different situation, the evidence wouldn't seem so convincing.

I see what his point is, and that's why I said in a post above, there is definitely an element of faith in this...a strong element , but I have found some "circumstantial evidence" of his resurrection in my studies.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

So Joy, and Jimmie, and Fitz, and the rest of the Christians on this thread, a rhetorical question:

What will happen, what would you do, if you are presented with absolute, undeniable, irrefutable PROOF that Jesus was not resurrected? Yes, he existed, he preached, he taught. Maybe he even died on the cross. But his mortal remains are found.

well, if we're gonna talk about that, then you have to actually have PROOF that he lived. there really isn't PROOF. yes, it's in different books, but there have never been remains found or any scripture written by Jesus Christ, himself.

i'm not saying i don't believe he existed, because i do, i'm just saying to have proof that he resurrected you also have to have 100% actual proof that he even existed. neither of those cases can be proven 100%

 

[cardaway]

It is illogical, but there are many phenomena on the planet that are illogical.

Yes but rarely does anybody ever quote those things as facts. I see many people quote the resurrection as a proven fact.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

I believe that anyone here who is a registered user is allowed to post on this thread whether they comply to your rules of hearing the FACTS first. (And on a side note I do not consider J. Cameron's findings as FACTS.)


please see the above post on page 16. Maybe the quotes from actual archaeologists and biblical scholars indeed hold the FACTS.


I don't expect my opinion to make sense to you. It just has to make sense to me. In some ways this is already a sad sad world. Thus I am glad I have my faith.

your opinion doesnt have to make sense to me but when we as people arent willing to listen to others points of view and shot them down saying they are nothing ....just because we dont want something they say to have any truth
what good becomes of that??

I mean its great that you have your faith.. but not everyone is of the same faith and maybe if we were willing to be more open and not so judgemental and negative about something we choose not to listen to we wouldnt have alot of the problems we face today

 

[mickeyfan2]

Oh goodness, not this again. One can no more prove that someone resurrected than disprove it, and we will all just have to accept that. It is called faith for a reason.

I know all about faith because I have it, but this statement "There is no such thing as proof of the resurrection outside of stuff that would be discredited if it was a different topic." is just a dig with no proof behind it. I want to read the discredit stuff.

I could careless if you (generic) don't believe in the resurrection or have any faith in any religion.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Those of you that believe in Jesus crucifixion and ressurection,how do you feel about the fact that Muslims believe his life was very different,IE he escaped crucifixion etc?

 

[poohandwendy]

Those of you that believe in Jesus crucifixion and ressurection,how do you feel about the fact that Muslims believe his life was very different,IE he escaped crucifixion etc?

Doesn't really bother me. Different beliefs. I dunno, many people have different beliefs than I do, it doesn't or affect or change mine.

 

[JoyG]

Those of you that believe in Jesus crucifixion and ressurection,how do you feel about the fact that Muslims believe his life was very different,IE he escaped crucifixion etc?

That would be where I look at the lives of his apostles. These people went to their deaths long after Jesus was gone still proclaiming that Jesus had risen.

These guys were human...not divine. It would have taken seeing something pretty spectacular for me to hold fast to it when I'm about to be hanged or beheaded.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Doesn't really bother me. Different beliefs. I dunno, many people have different beliefs than I do, it doesn't or affect or change mine.

Jews kind of have a similar issue in that the stories of Isaac and Ishmael differ from Judaism to Islam.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Paul.

Sure Jenny, blame the Jew.

Sorry, couldn't resist on that one.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Those of you that believe in Jesus crucifixion and ressurection,how do you feel about the fact that Muslims believe his life was very different,IE he escaped crucifixion etc?

No problem here. They are free to believe what they want. I find it more interesting that they even think of him as a prophet.