Jesus changed my life!!!!!

[graygables]

I certainly don't have such a well-thought out response and can only give my personal opinion. As a Christian, I'm torn. Without the 'death penalty', Jesus' sacrifice would not have been necessary. While I clearly have a modern Christian view of the OT, I was taught that a life was required in recompense for my sin (hence, animal sacrifice), thus Jesus' death was a requirement for my salvation.

In our society, I have a very difficult time justifying the tax dollars wasted providing food, shelter, clothing, porn, satellite TV, internet access, health care, etc to criminals. I just have a problem with that. I'm all for levels of incarceration (move over Dante... ) At the highest level, the prisoners are locked up and can have visitors who bring them food, clothing, etc, the basics needed to survive. Their friends and relatives are responsible for all their care, bringing a doctor if necessary, etc. In the middle level, the prisoners are locked up and can have visitors come OUTSIDE the facility and drop off the supplies, letters, etc for them. In the bottom level, no visitors. If you want to eat, you grow your own food. If you need clothes, you grow your own cotton/wool and make your own. Complete isolation from society. DH says to ship them all to New York and put up a fence...oh, wait, that was a movie, wasn't it??? Once you have intentionally taken away another person's "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", I believe you have forfeited your own right to those things.

 

[mom2taylorandemily]

I used to think that I believed in the Death Penalty, but after seeing the videos (and I still haven't seen the whole thing; nor do I think I could stomach to watch it) I'm not so sure that I feel the same way. SO, ok he did some horrendous horrible things to his fellow countrymen and I do not approve of how he treated his people, but his death solves nothing. My response was: put him in a cell, give him basic needs, water, bread and a place to sleep. Keep him out of the elements of weather and keep a roof over his head. That is all he deserves, I'm just not so sure about death.

 

[KikiFan]

JoyG I agree with everything you said. Well, not about the part about "turning to God" Because really I don't care if they do or not, that's between them and God. But ultimately I think that death is often to easy of an out for these people. For someone like Saddam, used to all the luxury life had to offer, 20-30 years in a cell would have been a real punishment.

The only argument that I've heard that made me think maybe, with regard to Saddam was that as long as he was alive there was a risk that he'd escape or that someone would be used as a hostage to try to free him.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Just for clarification,under the Jewish POV and under Jewish law Animal sacrifices were only one way to atone for one type of sins, unintentional sins against G-d..Jews never viewed animal sacrifices as the only way to atine for sin.
Carry on

 

[graygables]

I used to think that I believed in the Death Penalty, but after seeing the videos (and I still haven't seen the whole thing; nor do I think I could stomach to watch it) I'm not so sure that I feel the same way. SO, ok he did some horrendous horrible things to his fellow countrymen and I do not approve of how he treated his people, but his death solves nothing. My response was: put him in a cell, give him basic needs, water, bread and a place to sleep. Keep him out of the elements of weather and keep a roof over his head. That is all he deserves, I'm just not so sure about death.

The problem in Saddam's case was the potential for kidnap by fellow Sunnis and a rise in hero worship/violence with a new-found energy. Yes, they can now call him a martyr, but as someone called him he is "yesterday's man" and will be somewhat forgotten now that he's out of sight.

 

[JennyMominRI]

The problem in Saddam's case was the potential for kidnap by fellow Sunnis and a rise in hero worship/violence with a new-found energy. Yes, they can now call him a martyr, but as someone called him he is "yesterday's man" and will be somewhat forgotten now that he's out of sight.

I think this was a very legitimate concern.

 

[Saxsoon]

I am worried that he will be used as a martyr. Apparently his death also was set on the same day as some Islamic tradition. I believe it had something to do as a gift of God in the case of another martyr.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I am worried that he will be used as a martyr. Apparently his death also was set on the same day as some Islamic tradition. I believe it had something to do as a gift of God in the case of another martyr.

It was set on Eid..A very holy day for muslims...The thing is Sunni Muslims Start Eid one day before Shi'ites. Saddams hanging was at the start of the Sunni Holiday of EID,which many Sunnis viewed as a slap in the face to them personally,which leads to more sectarian issues.

 

[Laura]

I am worried that he will be used as a martyr. Apparently his death also was set on the same day as some Islamic tradition. I believe it had something to do as a gift of God in the case of another martyr.

Not in the case of a martyr, but a near-martyr. Eid al-Adha is celebrating a story you should be familiar with: the story of Abraham who almost sacrificed his son to God and was given an animal to sacrifice instead. For Muslims, it's Ishmael, not Isaac. But it's much the same story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_ul-Adha

 

[Fitswimmer]

I used to believe in the death penalty for most of the reasons that everyone else does-that it was more expensive to keep prisoners alive, that there were some criminals that commit crimes that are so heinous that imprisonment seems like it's too "nice", that it may have deterrent value, etc.
However, a few years ago I was volunteering at a lecture by Sr. Helen Prejean. Meeting her and hearing her speak sent me on my own journey about how the death penalty is applied in this country. It shocked me out of my complacency about our justice system. She wrote "Dead Man Walking" which was later made into a film starring Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn. (I highly recommend both the book and the film) Sr. Prejean has done extensive research since that first book about how the death penalty is actually applied in this country. I believe her second book is titled "The Death of Innocents" which chronicles the things she uncovered, also an excellent read. Even if you're sure that you support the death penalty, and I was, reading these books will give you a look at the other side.
Now, I try to be consistent about my "life" beliefs. I don't believe in abortion, the death penalty or euthanasia.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I used to believe in the death penalty for most of the reasons that everyone else does-that it was more expensive to keep prisoners alive, that there were some criminals that commit crimes that are so heinous that imprisonment seems like it's too "nice", that it may have deterrent value, etc.
However, a few years ago I was volunteering at a lecture by Sr. Helen Prejean. Meeting her and hearing her speak sent me on my own journey about how the death penalty is applied in this country. It shocked me out of my complacency about our justice system. She wrote "Dead Man Walking" which was later made into a film starring Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn. (I highly recommend both the book and the film) Sr. Prejean has done extensive research since that first book about how the death penalty is actually applied in this country. I believe her second book is titled "The Death of Innocents" which chronicles the things she uncovered, also an excellent read. Even if you're sure that you support the death penalty, and I was, reading these books will give you a look at the other side.
Now, I try to be consistent about my "life" beliefs. I don't believe in abortion, the death penalty or euthanasia.

That bring up another topic..What do you consider to be eathenasia...DO you consider the Terry Schiavo case Euthenasia? Is witholding of treatment euthenasia(at the request of the patient) or does one have to be an active participant ie. giving someone to much morphene

 

[cardaway]

I'm for the death penalty simply because I think there are some people that society is better off removing from that society. IMO is has nothing to do with religion unless the person inserts it themselves.

 

[Fitswimmer]

That bring up another topic..What do you consider to be eathenasia...DO you consider the Terry Schiavo case Euthenasia? Is witholding of treatment euthenasia(at the request of the patient) or does one have to be an active participant ie. giving someone to much morphene

I had to think about this a lot last year, because I was having the first major surgery of my life. I had to make the decision about what, if any, extraordinary means would be used to prolong my life. In the case of a complete loss of brain activity, no extraordinary means are to be taken to keep me alive. No active means are to be used to end my life however either, such as a withdrawal of a feeding tube or excessive morphine beyond what is needed to relieve my pain. I believe that when the time is right, God will take me-feeding tube or no feeding tube.
The reason I was careful about what I put to paper was because of Terri Schiavo. We'll never know what her true wishes were, but I still feel odd about the removal of the feeding tube.

 

[Saxsoon]

Not in the case of a martyr, but a near-martyr. Eid al-Adha is celebrating a story you should be familiar with: the story of Abraham who almost sacrificed his son to God and was given an animal to sacrifice instead. For Muslims, it's Ishmael, not Isaac. But it's much the same story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_ul-Adha

Yes, that is what it was. And thanks Jenny for clearing that up.