It's OK to use your retail poly points to stay at SSR

[Minniesgal]

Hypothetically, you reserve a studio standard, at Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa, for 97 vacation points, from September 17 - 24, 2017. Upon arriving at your room, you learn that your neighbors, in the 1-bedroom villa, had been upgraded from their standard room at Disney's All Star Music Resort. How would you react?

I wouldn't react at all it would mean nothing to me.

All that means is Disney had an unused room and made use of it. No skin off my nose.

 

[Dean]

I'm in agreement with you here Dean, the main reason to purchase DVC is to save money and the best comparison to make to see if it does save you money is against rental rates.

If someone wanted to spend half their time at the POLY and the other half somewhere else, a good option is to split the points over two contracts. One at POLY to ensure you get in there at 11 months and one at SSR that you can use to trade at 7 months.

We bought SSR points originally and I've used them to stay at VGF, BLT, AKV, POLY and BCV. Afterwards we bought another contract at BWV to ensure I have a good chance of getting a standard view room. For example for this summer, at 11 months I booked the entire trip at BWV with BWV points. At 7 months I then used my SSR points to book time at VGF and BCV and freed up some of my BWV points.

I had mentioned the split ownership previously. The odds that a new buyer at Poly (or any active sales resort) ends up preferring that resort in 10 years is likely under 50% as well.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I am not sure you realize it, but what you just described actually agrees with what I have been saying all along. Yes, convenience has its cost. When you attach convenience to whatever it is that you are buying, you are paying for a markup, which is essentially overpaying. If a bottle of water typically costs $0.50 at your local supermarket and you buy the same one at WDW for $3.00 because you don't want to carry one with you all day, that's overpaying as you are essentially paying $2.50 for that convenience.

Now if you start talking about how you would rather not deal with the extra work/hassle involved, then I wonder if DVC in general is right for you. In some ways, as Dean pointed out, your desire for convenience and peace of mind sort of goes against the core of timeshares/DVC.

LAX

To me owning timeshares is just as much a convenience than it is to save money. A convenience because you know that you are able to get into a deluxe resort, you just need to plan ahead. Since I like to plan ahead, then its no hassle. Sometimes DW says I plan too much ahead We also own other timeshares, and the convenience is also knowing that your options are open as to where you can go. Do we want to go to the US, europe, Asia or somewhere else. You could argue that with cash you have the same or better options, but this is where the money saving part comes into play. I would'nt have bought any of my timeshares if I was'nt able to save money on the long run also. To me the convenience alone is not worth it, but it might be for some.

To me convenience is also knowing that you are able to rent your ownership to cover some costs if you can't go.

So yes convenience comes at a cost, you just need to figure out if that cost is something you are willing to pay for.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I don't believe the direct cash price of the DVC option has any meaning unless it would be the direct cash choice not owning.

One thing I think is relevant: Without DVC, how many people booking studios would book Standard Rooms at resorts, rather than Villas? Obviously, when dealing with large families/2BR situations and even 1BR situations (which tend to be a choice, as they sleep the same number as a Standard Room at most deluxe resorts), the cost of a 2BR villa on cash vs. points is a fair comparison, because the 2BR villa is what it is (and the 2BR $uites are far costlier).

But a Standard Room can often grab a 25% discount, making the (inflated) studio villa cost as a defense for purchase/ROI self-serving, and not really a reflection of value.

 

[zavandor]

But if every third trip you decide to order something different than streak you are not diluting your purchase in any way because 1) you are not diluting your ability to guarantee a steak on future orders when you may very well only want steak 10 weeks in a row, and 2) It is still cheaper, at least by the tiniest margin, than paying cash.

What if you change job or move house and that restaurant is not convenient anymore? What if the chef you love opens a new restaurant and sells this one and you don't like the steak anymore? What if you became a Vegan?
Buying a prepaid voucher comes with the risk of anything like these happening. If the risk isn't offset by enough savings to make it worthwhile then you may probably end up paying more than if you just ordered every day a la carte.

The same with DVC: there are risks in ownership (cannot afford the MF, change of tastes, relocation) and we are not guaranteed to recoup the investment if we decide to sell. We should buy if the possible savings are good enough to make taking the risk worthwhile. Buying PVB to stay often in other resorts decrease these saving.

After saying all that: that's your money so use them like you want and enjoy your membership!

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

One thing I think is relevant: Without DVC, how many people booking studios would book Standard Rooms at resorts, rather than Villas? Obviously, when dealing with large families/2BR situations and even 1BR situations (which tend to be a choice, as they sleep the same number as a Standard Room at most deluxe resorts), the cost of a 2BR villa on cash vs. points is a fair comparison, because the 2BR villa is what it is (and the 2BR $uites are far costlier).

But a Standard Room can often grab a 25% discount, making the (inflated) studio villa cost as a defense for purchase/ROI self-serving, and not really a reflection of value.

The apples-to-apples comparison is what one would have paid for the same room if not owning DVC. For me, that comparison has always been made against a private rental of that same studio room which I've always found to be more cost effective than any discount offered by Disney off rack rates on standard rooms or villas. I suppose there could be a "great deal" on standard rooms, but typically after figuring the out-the-door cost, I've not found that to be the case.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The apples-to-apples comparison is what one would have paid for the same room if not owning DVC. For me, that comparison has always been made against a private rental of that same studio room which I've always found to be more cost effective than any discount offered by Disney off rack rates on standard rooms or villas. I suppose there could be a "great deal" on standard rooms, but typically after figuring the out-the-door cost, I've not found that to be the case.

I have seen a lot of people doing apples to apples where they are comparing buy-in of DVC to rack rate for a Studio villa. I think that is somewhat logically dishonest in many cases.

 

[Disn3yVision]

The apples-to-apples comparison is what one would have paid for the same room if not owning DVC. For me, that comparison has always been made against a private rental of that same studio room which I've always found to be more cost effective than any discount offered by Disney off rack rates on standard rooms or villas. I suppose there could be a "great deal" on standard rooms, but typically after figuring the out-the-door cost, I've not found that to be the case.

I agree with this although the stress and hassle of renting points to stay where you want is waaaay to much for me to see this as a viable option.... Especially at the "premium" resorts like PVB, VGF, and VGC, all of which have significant waiting lists with almost every broker.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

To me owning timeshares is just as much a convenience than it is to save money. A convenience because you know that you are able to get into a deluxe resort, you just need to plan ahead. Since I like to plan ahead, then its no hassle. Sometimes DW says I plan too much ahead We also own other timeshares, and the convenience is also knowing that your options are open as to where you can go. Do we want to go to the US, europe, Asia or somewhere else. You could argue that with cash you have the same or better options, but this is where the money saving part comes into play. I would'nt have bought any of my timeshares if I was'nt able to save money on the long run also. To me the convenience alone is not worth it, but it might be for some.

To me convenience is also knowing that you are able to rent your ownership to cover some costs if you can't go.

So yes convenience comes at a cost, you just need to figure out if that cost is something you are willing to pay for.

DVC is a convenience in getting into a Deluxe resort? That I'd have to disagree with - cash rooms at Disney are by far the greater convenience. DVC first and foremost is about getting those accommodations for less than or getting greater room amenities more reasonably. It is not about convenience as getting cash rooms is very easy.

 

[Dean]

I have seen a lot of people doing apples to apples where they are comparing buy-in of DVC to rack rate for a Studio villa. I think that is somewhat logically dishonest in many cases.

Exactly. It's only relevant if one would have booked the studio via cash if they hadn't owned DVC. IMO the best comparison for DVC is rental privately vs owning unless cash direct approximates or is lower than that. Otherwise it's just an exercise in fun or futility depending. Often it's used as a justification for buying in and that's an absolutely unreasonable thought process IMO unless one would have done so on cash no owning.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Exactly. It's only relevant if one would have booked the studio via cash if they hadn't owned DVC. IMO the best comparison for DVC is rental privately vs owning unless cash direct approximates or is lower than that. Otherwise it's just an exercise in fun or futility depending. Often it's used as a justification for buying in and that's an absolutely unreasonable thought process IMO unless one would have done so on cash no owning.

Yeah. And generally, most families wouldn't have paid extra for the studio over a standard room.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

I have seen a lot of people doing apples to apples where they are comparing buy-in of DVC to rack rate for a Studio villa. I think that is somewhat logically dishonest in many cases.

"Logically dishonest"...I like that! The problem is when the logically dishonest results get posted here as fact and then subsequently relied upon by those truly trying to understand all the variables DVC has to offer.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

"Logically dishonest"...I like that! The problem is when the logically dishonest results get posted here as fact and then subsequently relied upon by those truly trying to understand all the variables DVC has to offer.

Yeah. It's "if you had to pay $RACKRATE-STUDIO" or "$DISCOUNT-STANDARDROOM" would you really pay more for that toaster?

I mean, I love toasters. They're great. But I'm not sure they're worth the upcharge per night. For those with real food allergy/sensitivity issues, a 1BR tends to be a better choice than a studio, because a full kitchen helps.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

I agree with this although the stress and hassle of renting points to stay where you want is waaaay to much for me to see this as a viable option.... Especially at the "premium" resorts like PVB, VGF, and VGC, all of which have significant waiting lists with almost every broker.

I can certainly see how the level of trust and patience needed to rent points can be stressful. I personally don't view it that way, but admit that I've have some great renting experiences in my pre-ownership days and also assisting others in their rentals. A bad experience might make me think otherwise.

But before you write off the rental process, IMO, it could actually help you with your point usage argument. Sure, at the end of the day, you should use your points wherever you want to use your points...there's nothing "wrong" with that. But IMO, that is an emotional-based decision as opposed to a financially optimum or value based decision; which seem to be the two arguments that have emerged in this thread and have become somewhat commingled. I'm not a fan of the brokers, but as you've pointed out and is evident from the brokers, PVB points are in high demand on the rental market. IMO, if I owned a material amount of PVB points and truly wanted to stay at SSR for my next trip, I'd take advantage of the strong PVB demand and rent them privately here on the DIS at an optimum rate and use the proceeds to secure either a transfer, a rental of my own, or an acceptable cash stay at SSR at a much cheaper rate. You would then be satisfying the emotional side of your argument by technically using your points where you want for this trip and also not lose the value of your premium points that you paid for with your hard earned dollars thereby satisfying the financial side of the coin. I know, it's a little more effort, but a potentially a win-win. Maybe?

 

[Disn3yVision]

I'm not a fan of the brokers, but as you've pointed out and is evident from the brokers, PVB points are in high demand on the rental market. IMO, if I owned a material amount of PVB points and truly wanted to stay at SSR for my next trip, I'd take advantage of the strong PVB demand and rent them privately here on the DIS at an optimum rate and use the proceeds to secure either a transfer, a rental of my own, or an acceptable cash stay at SSR at a much cheaper rate. You would then be satisfying the emotional side of your argument by technically using your points where you want for this trip and also not lose the value of your premium points that you paid for with your hard earned dollars thereby satisfying the financial side of the coin. I know, it's a little more effort, but a potentially a win-win. Maybe?

THIS! Totally worth the effort in my opinion, and I think it is a great suggestion :0)

 

[Disn3yVision]

I would like to say that the reason I posted this in the mousecellaneous section and not in the purchasing DVC section is that I know that for most people, buying direct at PVB isn't the best option. I also didn't want to confuse any newbies as my argument applies to certain specific circumstances, and the last thing I want to do is give bad advice to people still figuring out the system. At the same time I thought it could be a valuable topic to broach with some knowledgable members on the boards and that, I feel, it has been.

I have already went into detail with why I bought at PVB on a previous thread here: https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...from-disney-instead-of-buying-resale.3503415/

For all of the reasons listed there, and then some, I know that buying at PVB was the best decision for my family, and don't regret it one bit. Every time I run the scenario through my head I come out buying PVB for some very unique and specific reasons. That being said, I refuse to hold myself hostage to the POLY if a vacation comes about that calls for different accommodations. To be honest I really don't plan on staying at all the resorts. I love the Poly and plan on staying at PVB for pretty much every trip where it doesn't matter where I stay.... The exceptions being if I really want to try a new or specific resort, or if the specific circumstances of the vacation call for it. If in 15 years from now when my kids are teenagers and we decide to squeeze in a extra disney trip where I want to get a 1 bedroom cheap (instead of renting 2 connecting studios at PVB) and plan on visiting Disney Springs a lot and not visit the parks, I will book SSR in a heartbeat and not think twice. Now, I may use the renting strategy as discussed above, but still.

The funny thing is that I bought direct the first time, and I am almost certain if I add- on it will be direct as well. In order to get 2 PVB studios and afford flying a family of 5 cross country I plan on going to WDW every other year. Living in California 25 minutes from Disneyland and having AP's, I definitely plan on staying at using my "spare" points leftover from banking/borrowing to stay at a California DVC during those off years, and maybe Aulani every now and then. I refuse to buy SSR because I would hate getting stuck there. So if I followed the advice on this thread I could have purchased 75 points at AUV or VGC..... But those resorts are pretty expensive resale. And AUV has higher dues. And I would have to wait to find the right contract in the right amount with the right use year...not so easy with VGC. Also, I would be splitting up my points and effectively forfeiting my home booking advantage at PVB if I need the full banking of all my points to combine studios, which I do. Splitting your purchase works great if you are sure you will alternate resorts and bank and borrow, but if I have a 150 points and its split 75-PVB and 75-VGC then banking PVB points only gets me an 11 month priority on 150 points total... not enough to get the two rooms I want/need for my family. I would have to try and get the second room at 7 months and hope the days line up perfectly.... adding more stress every trip. If Disney does indeed build DVC into the new flagship hotel at Disneyland, which I suspect they will, then I hope to buy 50 points there. Pretty sure it will be direct as well because it would take 10 years from the time the resort goes on sale for the resale contracts to be of sufficient value and I am not willing to wait that long.

What I think is getting lost here, but is also kind of a separate conversation, is the value of the home resort bookings advantage. I am strongly against buying SSR unless you love it or truly don't care/know where you want to stay because you are essentially throwing away your 11 month booking priority. Sure with the new room categories at SSR that changes slightly, but I feel it is a bad decision to throw away what I think is one of the most important advantages you get by purchasing a home resort. When you do this you run the risk of spending $5,000 on something you don't really love and may not even want. I would rather pay $10,000 for something I love, especially if I will own it and be paying dues on it for decades.

 

[Dean]

What I think is getting lost here, but is also kind of a separate conversation, is the value of the home resort bookings advantage. I am strongly against buying SSR unless you love it or truly don't care/know where you want to stay because you are essentially throwing away your 11 month booking priority. Sure with the new room categories at SSR that changes slightly, but I feel it is a bad decision to throw away what I think is one of the most important advantages you get by purchasing a home resort. When you do this you run the risk of spending $5,000 on something you don't really love and may not even want. I would rather pay $10,000 for something I love, especially if I will own it and be paying dues on it for decades.

Your choice of course and it may make sense for you. Truthfully we don't have enough information to truly know but I know you're convinced it is right for you. I would strongly suggest that your view of owning SSR is not reality. There are not uncommon posts of those who own there and have NEVER stayed there. Certainly they are not going to get into VGF or other specialty options routinely and if one of those is the goal, owning SSR likely isn't for them. But the reality is that unless one owns a fixed week, there are no guarantees of getting a reservation even during the home resort priority window for any resort. The odds are better of course but not as much as some would think. Unless one is able to book day one 11 months out, they could easily get shut out for something that's difficult. I personally don't think Poly will be difficult to get into long term but we'll see. The time to start judging is about 2-3 years after it's completely sold out, now really has no meaning. Most of my personal stays are at SSR, OKW & AKV at around $600-650 per week in 1 BR villas (current cost) though historically cheaper than that but doing other timeshares isn't for everyone. I'd think the odds of a new buyer having the same home resort preference in 10 years is likely less than 50%.

 

[Cyberc1978]

DVC is a convenience in getting into a Deluxe resort? That I'd have to disagree with - cash rooms at Disney are by far the greater convenience. DVC first and foremost is about getting those accommodations for less than or getting greater room amenities more reasonably. It is not about convenience as getting cash rooms is very easy.

I see your point. But for me as an owner booking DVC i'm almost guaranteed the room I want at my home resort at 11 month. This is at least the case for me booking during the summer. I know if you book during late sep-early jan then your have a higher risk of being out of luck during your 11 months. I also noted that the convenience alone did not do it for me I would also need to be able to save money longterm.

I know booking with cash, is almost worrie free, unless ofc your room choice is not available. Booking with cash wont save you any money longterm.

 

[crisi]

Exactly. It's only relevant if one would have booked the studio via cash if they hadn't owned DVC. IMO the best comparison for DVC is rental privately vs owning unless cash direct approximates or is lower than that. Otherwise it's just an exercise in fun or futility depending. Often it's used as a justification for buying in and that's an absolutely unreasonable thought process IMO unless one would have done so on cash no owning.

Or whatever you would have done without DVC. If that is staying at the All Stars, you need to use that and then see whether the value of the additional expense is worth staying DVC. If that is booking a room at the Poly hotel side, then that's your comparison - but remember to factor in any additional or lost value.

I don't find the timeshare rooms "Deluxe" - I find them to be timeshare rooms. (Then again, I haven't been impressed by Disney's idea of Deluxe for some time either). So to me there is a loss is value if I were booking studios over booking regular Deluxe hotel rooms - I like having my bed made by someone else every day. For me, the value in DVC is the multiroom units.