It's official...DD is officially UK RESIDENT!

[dreamflight99]

Preparing to board her VA flight from LHR to LAX a week ago, security was called by the Airline attendant to assist in determining her category (place of "residence") on her immigration form. Since she is attending University full time (3~year current student Visa), receives free health care, and is actually living in the UK more months than the US, they determined she is officially a UK resident!

She is still a US citizen, but does not have to fly back every 6 months to renew/validate her passport. With her current status, she can remain as long as she likes (up to the three years), and still maintain her American citizenship. She has the best of both worlds, and loves it! She plans to obtain her UK license this spring, and apply for dual citizenship as well. She looks forward to completing her BSc, (as well as her Masters/PhD in England).

She's currently home on Holiday, and has enjoyed her first term in Uni. Just wanted to post the update and info, as I posted here some time ago (when she was planning to attend UNI in England). Thanks for all your information and support, it was very helpful. Hope everyone enjoyed a Happy Christmas and Boxing Day! Happy New Year to all!

 

[disneyholic family]

Once a US citizen, always a US citizen, unless a person renounces their citizenship.

The US doesn't actually recognize dual citizenship, but rather chooses to ignore if a person has additional citizenships. Basically semantics.

in any case, I guess congratulations are in order. I bet attending university in the UK is very interesting.

Although i can't imagine giving up California weather for that in the UK.

 

[dreamflight99]

Thanks Beth... Your facts are exactly correct! I spoke with some former UK residents in Epcot this summer (UK pavillion), and they informed me it's not a "two-way" street. Apparently, British citizens are not permitted the same courtesy (opportunity for the so-called "dual citizenship" passports), and must renounce theirs to become US citizens. At least this is the route these folks chose. True?

As for the weather, it seems we always want what we don't have. Perhaps because she was born here in So. Cal, and has always known the heat/sunshine...she wished to experience the rain and cold. California will always be here awaiting her return, (unless the "BIG ONE" finally sets us into the Pacific...LOL).

She's currently living in a college with kids whom are trying for a spot in the "international students exchange" program. There are two of them in the house, and they both want to attend California schools! DD has been assisting them with information, etc. She actually knows several students at each of the schools available through this exchange. She's in contact with them via email. If either of her mates is successful, they will have a "connection" prior to arriving via DD's friends. It's a wonderful experience/opportunity for them, as it is for DD.

 

[natalielongstaff]

thats great hope your dd is enjoying her xmas holidays

 

[florida sun]

Congratulations to your DD, as you say what a wonderful experience/Opportunity for her,and something she can look back on for many years.

Well done to her


Sue

 

[disneyholic family]

Thanks Beth... Your facts are exactly correct! I spoke with some former UK residents in Epcot this summer (UK pavillion), and they informed me it's not a "two-way" street. Apparently, British citizens are not permitted the same courtesy (opportunity for the so-called "dual citizenship" passports), and must renounce theirs to become US citizens. At least this is the route these folks chose. True?

As for the weather, it seems we always want what we don't have. Perhaps because she was born here in So. Cal, and has always known the heat/sunshine...she wished to experience the rain and cold. California will always be here awaiting her return, (unless the "BIG ONE" finally sets us into the Pacific...LOL).

She's currently living in a college with kids whom are trying for a spot in the "international students exchange" program. There are two of them in the house, and they both want to attend California schools! DD has been assisting them with information, etc. She actually knows several students at each of the schools available through this exchange. She's in contact with them via email. If either of her mates is successful, they will have a "connection" prior to arriving via DD's friends. It's a wonderful experience/opportunity for them, as it is for DD.

i don't know the rules for British citizens (i'm an american)......
america is actually one of the most lenient when it comes to dual citizenship...as i said, they just ignore the fact that you have another one....

as for weather....she's young....i grew up in Michigan and used to love the weather there.......i cannot imagine living there now........toooooooooooooooooo cold.....brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......all that snow and ice and frigid weather.....did i say brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr??....

 

[Minniespal]

Well done to your DD ~ That is fantastic news.

 

[traycie2201]

Great news for your DD, now if only i can figure how to take her space in the US as for the weather let me all assure you that the weather here in good old blighty does not dissapoint and it's bloomin freezing, no rain though Hope your DD has a wonderful time at UNI everyone i know has a great experience and makes plenty of friends. Happy New Year

 

[dreamflight99]

Thanks so much for all the kind comments, support and compliments regarding DD's college choice! They truly mean a lot to me. Witnessing her choose her own path in life has been "trying" at best. Most of our friends actually "selected" their own children's colleges (based upon everything from $$ to location). Yet, since we were not the ones attending UNI (after all, DD IS the one in college--doing the work and attending the lectures), we decided the final decision should be hers and hers alone. Both DH and I vowed to fully support her decision. This way, she will have no regrets about the choice down the road, as SHE is the one whom made it!

Many friends also have told us they would NEVER "let" their children go to school so far from home. Their children attend college in the same town for this very reason. Theoretically, DD is 18 and considered an adult in the US. We can neither "let" or "prevent" her from doing very much at this stage in her life. We do not consider her a child, but rather a young adult. I also have trouble with this statement for another reason. What's the "big" difference between "out of the state" or "out of the country?" One is a little farther by plane, but both are still on the same planet! LOL. Many of the parents making such comments, have kids attending school in Boston, or NY. Their plane ride is 5.5 hours from home, and DD's is 10.5 hours. It's still only a "plane ride" away in my book!

Yes, she is thoroughly enjoying herself at UNI, and is definitely making all kinds of friends. They share so much together, and even plan/make "Sunday roasts" to all get together in the common kitchen on the weekend.

She is SO excited about the prospect of experiencing snow while living there, although most residents have informed her the snow is usually not heavy. We have visited the snow together, but it's not outside our doorstep. She's living in the City of York attending the UNI there. I'm sure most of you are familiar with the area, and can offer more information on the weather (specific to the region).

It's an amazingly beautiful City, and we enjoyed our visit last October. DH and I stayed on a few weeks to assist her with things, and to "look around" the Country a bit ourselves. The history of York, with the ancient Walls and the Roman/Viking influence is astounding. We have nothing even comparable here in the states.

We all drove to nearby Scarborough, which was lovely. The homes overlooking the sea are gorgeous, and everything felt a wee bit like Santa Monica (with the Ferris Wheel and quaint shops)! We thoroughly enjoyed it. We also drove to the "lakes" district, which is some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever witnessed.

Beth~Many of my relatives (father's side--he was born there) hail from Michigan! I spent both winters and summers there visiting family during my younger years. I recall the heavy snow/ice in the winter, and the even heavier humidity and mosquitoes in the summer! Yet, it is considered God's country by all accounts. Both the people and country are beautiful. You are right about "youth" playing a factor in DD's love for the cold/snow. I hail from NY, where the winters seem endless. Out here...it's easy to miss the beauty and wonder of winter from afar, when I never have to shovel a walk or defrost my car, etc!

traycie2201~You're welcome anytime! We have loads of room...so pack your bags! LOL. It was warm enough to SWIM here this week...in December. Drives me crazy, as just once...I'd enjoy wearing a winter sweater or coat during the winter holiday season. Is that too much to ask? People are running around here in shorts and sandals. My parents are caught under frigid snow/ice in NY, and would also trade places with me in a NY-minute! (LOL). My mom doesn't believe a place can ever be "too sunny or warm" (as I've been protesting for the past month). I just want a little frost...something "close-to" freezing. Send some of the Brrrrrrrrrrr weather out here!!

 

[catherine]

i don't know the rules for British citizens (i'm an american)......
america is actually one of the most lenient when it comes to dual citizenship...as i said, they just ignore the fact that you have another one....

At the moment our DD's have dual citizenship, our oldest DD was born in the US and the youngest one was born here in the UK. We have been told that our when our youngest DD reaches 18 she can keep her dual nationality, while the oldest one who was born in the states has to choose whether she wants to be an US citizen or a UK citizen!

Dreamflight I am curious who determined that your daughter is officially a UK citizen? We have been through so much hassle both in the US and the UK (mainly at the US embassy!) regarding citizenship, that it seems to me that it's not as easy as that and you might want to double check. It might be that she's being granted temporary citizenship while she's a student. If that is the case I don't think that she'll be able to apply for dual citizenship.

Congratulations to you for allowing your DD to make her own decisions. I'm sure that she will get a great deal out of this experience that will stand her in good stead for the rest of her life. I don't know how she is dealing with the weather though!! DH is from CA and has been here a number of yesrs and he still can't deal with the cold wind and rain!

 

[disneyholic family]

At the moment our DD's have dual citizenship, our oldest DD was born in the US and the youngest one was born here in the UK. We have been told that our when our youngest DD reaches 18 she can keep her dual nationality, while the oldest one who was born in the states has to choose whether she wants to be an US citizen or a UK citizen!

i assume you mean that the UK requires her to make a decision, since the US does not require that sort of decision.

 

[catherine]

i assume you mean that the UK requires her to make a decision, since the US does not require that sort of decision.

Since reading this thread I've been reading some info. about dual nationality and it seems that the US immigration official that we spoke with gave us the wrong information when he told us that our eldest DD would have to choose between US and UK nationality. I now believe that both of out DD's can have dual nationality!

 

[dreamflight99]

Catherine~To kindly clarify my post, I wrote DD was a UK "RESIDENT" *(as opposed to a UK CITIZEN). These are two very different classifications. DD is still an AMERICAN citizen, but a UK RESIDENT. Therefore, she qualifies for all the privs of a UK resident (can view the Palace in the summer, receives discounts offered residents, receives inclusive health care, etc).

The decisions have been made primarily through the British consulate (embassy) here in Los Angeles. DD has the right to apply for dual citizenship under the US rules, if she so desires--at any time. She does not have to renounce her American citizenship---and may keep both (according to both US/British consulates). We have relatives in Nova Scotia whom also maintain dual citizenship with the US, so Canada must have similar (ius sanguinis) rules with America.

DD's current "residence" status is based upon her lifestyle. She is on a 3-year fulltime student visa/passport. Since she does not have to validate her American Passport every 6 months (as most do), and she actually resides in the UK more than the US (8-9 months UK, 3-4 month US), AND receives FREE national health care insurance coverage/privs---she is considered a UK resident by the British government. The security officers from immigration formally authorized and cemented this status at Heathrow international Airport and finalized/noted it in their central computer systems as well as DD's passport and forms (making future travel/immigration processing easier).

Here's another example, Gwyneth Paltrow holds dual citizenship (was born in the US). Her baby, Apple...was born in Los Angeles...but also has applied & received Dual citizenship from Britain (via mom/dad). Madonna has done the same for all of her children and self. The US, as Beth has stated, is very lenient when it comes to this process (and for the most part, at present, "looks the other way" when US citizens ALSO declare Britain as their home). US citizens are NOT required to "choose" or renounce their AMERICAN birthright status. I am unsure if the same courtesy is offered by the British government to their citizens, as the answers have been conflicting.

I know DD is able to apply and obtain Dual citizenship with no problem, as we have all talked with the British consulate director (head consular official) at the British Embassy Office in Los Angeles. Yet, it is much more difficult...if not impossible for British citizens to do the same (as from what we have heard, the British government demands they declare only ONE country of birth/residence---and renounce the other). He explained this to us briefly as well. This means, (just as the folks in the UK shop explained to DD and I) British citizens MUST "give-up" their British citizenship to become US/AMERICAN citizens, and are not permitted (by British law) to hold true "DUAL" citizenship passports. The US naturalization oath contains a mandatory renunciatory clause, but the new citizen's "old country" may or may not recognize it, and under current policies, the US doesn't care or mind if a naturalized US citizen's country of origin insists on hanging on.


Have you contacted your state department branch, or the local consulate to research this more thoroughly? They should be able to provide you with all the information you need. The process for DD to obtain the 3-year residence visa was very extensive, and she needed proof to process the visa. Since she intends to stay and obtain her PhD, she will need to renew this visa at the end of the three years. By this time, she will have her dual citizenship visa. Therefore, the other may not be necessary.

I agree, it can be VERY confusing and frustrating! We have to return to the embassy this summer, and fill-out all the necessary paperwork to start the ball rolling. I hope you are also able to sort it all out for your two daughters.

Thanks for the nice comments regarding her process/decision to attend UNI in England. She truly enjoys the weather, and loves the changing seasons (which, if you "blink" here in California you will miss it!). Some of her flat mates have call her cell-phone to wish her a "Happy Christmas", etc. She misses them, and has selected many treats (I'm sure your DH recalls SEE'S candies!) to bring back for them.

Enjoy the weekend!

 

[dreamflight99]

Since reading this thread I've been reading some info. about dual nationality and it seems that the US immigration official that we spoke with gave us the wrong information when he told us that our eldest DD would have to choose between US and UK nationality. I now believe that both of out DD's can have dual nationality!

WONDERFUL NEWS!! I will add Catherine, they do NOT make this an easy process (by any stretch of the imagination)! I would suggest you begin this process as soon as possible. From what I've read, possibly both of your children can actually hold this priv based upon their unique birthrights (one has "ius sanguinis" or right of the blood, and the other has "ius soli" or the right of the soil).

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#moveabroad

(*Read #14--My son/daughter was born overseas. Can he/she become a US citizen? )

In fact, they may already hold this staus---and you may only be required to process it (to obtain the status). But, there are strict considerations to these rights:

If one parent is a US citizen, and the other is not, and the parents are married, then the current law says the child is a US citizen if the American parent was physically present in the US for one or more periods of time totalling at least five years, at some time or times in his or her life prior to (but not necessarily immediately prior to) the child's birth. Additionally, at least two years out the required five years of physical presence must have taken place after the parent's 14th birthday; thus, for example, a parent who was born and grew up in the US, but who left before reaching age 16 and never returned, doesn't meet the requirement.

**It is important to note that a foreign-born child whose parents have fulfilled the residency or physical presence requirements is a US citizen by birth. This citizenship is automatic; it is not dependent on the parents' registering the child with a US consulate (though such registration is strongly encouraged) or getting the child a US passport. Is this perhaps your case?!? Hope so!!

***Also, when a "dual citizen" enters the US, he/she is expected to identify himself to US immigration and customs officials as a US citizen (not as a citizen of some other country) -- and in cases where a passport is required to enter the US, a dual US/other citizen is expected to enter on a US passport, just like any other US citizen.

I've heard this "courtesy" may be coming to an end (due to the strains of 911, etc). This is why we are all considering applying (as DD may very well decide to stay-on in England), and would enjoy holding dual citizenship. It would make it easier on all of us (traveling, living there part of the year, and here part, etc). You and your husband should also apply while the window is still open!

Here's a couple of helpful websites:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=10993699#post10993699

(In particular, read this section on the differences between "US citizenship vs. US nationality"). Very interesting...and possibly a trite bit confusing...lol.

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

http://www.covlaw.org.uk/immigration/leaflets/leaflet9.html

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Here's a very interesting excerpt:

Where one country requires a citizen to renounce the citizenship of another country, this renunciation may or may not be recognized by the other country. This can sometimes lead to sticky legal situations. Also, countries which require such renunciations differ in how seriously they treat this requirement. In some cases (such as Singapore), an applicant for naturalization may be required by his new country to go to an embassy or consulate of his old country and renounce his old citizenship in a manner prescribed by his old country's laws. Other countries (such as the US in recent years) may treat their own naturalization oaths' renunciatory language as essentially meaningless and take no steps to enforce it at all.

Also in the FAQ:

Example 2: A person born to American parents in the United States who moves to the United Kingdom may, after five years of legal residence (or three years if married to a British citizen) become a British citizen, and therefore will hold dual British/US citizenship.





But the best resource remains your embassy.

 

[catherine]

Thanks dreamflight for all the information that you provided. Both our DD's have dual citizenship now. They both have a UK passport and a Us passport. The confusion arose when we informed by an immigration official at the US Embassy in London that when DD's reached 18 they would have to choose whhether they wanted to be US citizens or Uk citizens as they couldn't hold dual citizenship! We have also been told that the UK recognises dual citizenship!! Fotunately our DD's are not going to turn 18 any time soon so we have plenty of time to sort this out, and as you pointed out things may change along the way!

I'm happy for you that things are going so smoothly for your DD!

I remeber Sees candy!

I think it's so funny that your DD loves the weather. We really miss the CA weather and when we talk about whether to move back or not that is always way up there on our list of reasons to relocate! DH's family live in CA (both northern and southern) so we come over for vacations and we never want to come back!

 

[urglewurgle]

She's living in the City of York attending the UNI there....
We all drove to nearby Scarborough,.....
We also drove to the "lakes" district,...

oh! my part of the world! lol... glad you like it! we're quite proud :K:

i live in Leeds, a city not too far from York or Scarborough... and i agree about the history of York! I studied archaeology at university and we spent a fair bit of time in York.. digging up the road and annoying the people... lol...

Scarborough... lol.. been there like every year since i was born! love the place! lol...

and the Lakes.... *sigh*... really is breathtaking!




I'm really happy for your daughter.. and jealous! i wish i had the drive, ambition and confidence to do something like that! i can see she's gonna go far....

becks

 

[disneyholic family]

We have relatives in Nova Scotia whom also maintain dual citizenship with the US, so Canada must have similar (ius sanguinis) rules with America.

Actually Canada has much tougher rules than the US, though I won't go into the differences here.
But Canadian citizenship brings with it some really wonderful perks (e.g., medical coverage, even if you're living somewhere else in the world).

 

[dreamflight99]

Catherine~It's so funny (about the dual citizenship), about all the discrepancies between the agencies and officials (?). I read you should never produce BOTH passports at once, or it may arise suspicion (LOL), and you should never bring anything up to these agents unless THEY ASK first, or you may confuse them!!! You would think by NOW, both governments would have this important matter all cleared up and formalized!! Dang bureaucrats...they're still clogging the system everywhere you look.

Oh, DD received news it had snowed in York for three days since she has been gone. She was so sad she missed it, as here...it's SUNNY each and EVERY darned day!!! C'mon out and visit, there's always room at our house (wayyyy too much room for only two people)!

I completely understand your conversations about relocating during your visits to California, as we had similar ones after spending time in York and the surrounding area. DH and I actually talked about buying a house there, so we could go "back and forth" between both places in the future (after DD graduates). The prices are truly reasonable (from a So. Calif. perspective), and we could buy a nice single family cottage in the area around her college. She could live there for her second and third year if she liked and occupy the home in our absence. Since we are only planning to visit once per year, (spring) for a week or so...she would not have to worry about us "taking up residence" during her college years!!

See's candy=YUMMY!! I had a marshmallow Christmas tree this afternoon...simply delectable!

DD brought colored foil"crackers" home for New Years Eve!! We all got to pull two, and wear the paper crowns and keep the fun toys (everything from whistles and marbles to tops and screwdriver sets...LOL)!! Truly a FUN English tradition. She also brought home some Maltesers, and some Walker's crisps (my favorite=salt and vinegar, I'm fully addicted!). She brought home some cadbury treats, and some delicious galaxy chocolate and cocoa mix, plus some mars bars chocolates!! England has the BEST chocolate in the Universe! MMMmmmm.

Becks! I know RIGHT where LEEDS is located, as we all drove to the IKEA there to purchase some DORM stuff with DD!! What a lovely City. DD also went there with all her flat mates on a train, to shop and see the Christmas lights (a lovely display according to her)! Yes, you are VERY close to York. We also drove to Manchester (DH and I) as we had to change our plane tickets on VA (we extended our stay by a week). It was so much fun, and DH thinks he may have had his picture taken on a freeway (as he possibly failed to slow in time in a construction zone, and we saw a BRIGHT flash). We have not yet received anything in the mail or from Enterprise, so... (keeping fingers crossed as I type).

I must agree and attest, Scarborough and the LAKES are two of the most unique and beautiful areas I've ever had the pleasure to visit. I've been all OVER the US (literally), several times over. I've been to South America, and the Bahamas. I've been to Grand Cayman, and the Keys of Florida. BUT...nothing compares to the places we visited in Northern England. I can hardly wait to visit Scotland with DD in the Spring. I can only imagine the scenery gets better and better, the father north you travel (?). We are planning to take the "Northern Bell" for transport, and stay in a castle in Edinburgh. Should prove interesting and adventurous!

Thank you for the generous and kind comments regarding my DD. Yes, even I too find myself in total awe of her tenacity, clarity and focus at the tender age of only 18. She can see what she wants, and is not afraid to go after it. She actually shot for the moon...and reached it (IMHO). In this life, it is one thing to "talk" about doing something, and another to actually DO it. She is the type of person whom fulfills her desires, stands by her convictions and accomplishes her goals. DH and I are both so proud of her (plus...it gives us reason to visit England/Europe!).

BTW...your shutterfly photos are simply adorable!! Thanks for sharing the MAGIC and fun.

Beth~I've never discussed this with either of my Aunts personally, but I'm sure they would elaborate if I asked about the details of their process (in obtaining dual citizenship). They reside in Lunenburg, with their homes looking out on the bay (completely onbstructed views...stunning). Oddly enough, one of my favorite things about Canada remains the $$$, as I absolutely LOVE the LOONIE (and have a bunch here in my office from numerous visits). I also love the QUID and that $2.00 piece (gold/silver) in England too! I also love the beautiful anthem (Oh, Canada...).

DD currently has full medical coverage in the UK, just as any other citizen does (as she is a full-time student, and therefore is covered as a UK resident). This came in very handy, as she had an inoculation and obtained emergency treatment on two separate occasions! She went to the pharmacy (or chemist!) to receive her medicine without any problem. She was delighted at the ease of the process and treatment. It was right on the campus, and the nurses and doctors were wonderfully warm and proficient.

It's so interesting to learn about different cultures, etc. Even though we speak the same language, we have many differences which make us both unique and very interesting. DD still laughs, as everyone in her house believes SHE is the one with the accent!! They LOVE her inflection, and love to hear her talk. They even ask her to recite certain words or phrases, and they all laugh together. She does the same to them (California vernacular), and they all end up on the floor with laughter! It's silly how a little thing like "language" keeps them entertained for hours together. May they ALWAYS be this carefree and easy!

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!

DF99