It's official...ABD is going to Japan!

[Cousin Orville]

Thanks! I'll need it to get 4!

Yeah, I did trial runs on how to break ours up if we went for business. 4 saver tickets was rare. Could never find 5 on any trial date. For now, it will be just my dw and I that fly business. Makes me think of the Gordon Ramsey story:
"The celebrity chef made major waves when he told The Telegraph about his family's seating arrangement. "[The kids] don’t sit with us in first class," Gordon said. "They haven’t worked anywhere near hard enough to afford that. At that age, at that size, you’re telling me they need to sit in first class? No, they do not. We’re really strict on that." And he wasn’t mincing words: “I turn left with Tana and they turn right and I say to the chief stewardess, ‘Make sure those little xxxx don’t come anywhere near us — I want to sleep on this plane.'"

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Yeah, I did trial runs on how to break ours up if we went for business. 4 saver tickets was rare. Could never find 5 on any trial date. For now, it will be just my dw and I that fly business. Makes me think of the Gordon Ramsey story:
"The celebrity chef made major waves when he told The Telegraph about his family's seating arrangement. "[The kids] don’t sit with us in first class," Gordon said. "They haven’t worked anywhere near hard enough to afford that. At that age, at that size, you’re telling me they need to sit in first class? No, they do not. We’re really strict on that." And he wasn’t mincing words: “I turn left with Tana and they turn right and I say to the chief stewardess, ‘Make sure those little xxxx don’t come anywhere near us — I want to sleep on this plane.'"

Omg that is hilarious!!! So Gordon! Love that. My kids are teens so they could easily handle coach on their own, but my special need son might revolt! Also he’s not easy to deal with so I’d feel bad leaving my daughter that reponsibility. I think 4 is unlikely too. I’m planning to hopefully do 2 and 2 business/first or worst case take different flights with boys and girls.

 

[RSM]

I can't remember what thread I was reading, but I saw something recently that threw a ratchet in my plans a little and I was hoping to see if anyone had any ideas.

It looks like right now that our best bet for flights will be in and out of Tokyo. As the ABD starts in Osaka, I was planning to come in a day early, stay at a hotel near the bullet train, and then take the bullet train to Osaka. But someone posted about doing something like that and mentioned that having big bags on the train would be a nightmare. As we'll be loaded down with all our bags, and I've pretty much given up on the idea of ever packing light (defeated multiple times, LOL), it made me wonder whether I should take a local flight instead? Unfortunately due to the timing of the west coast flights and the fact that it would be separate ticket that needed plenty of time between flights, I would still have to have the hotel night in between. I guess in that situation we would just stay somewhere near the airport.

So my choices right now:
--Fly into Tokyo. Stay at hotel near train. Train next day to Osaka with lots of bags.
--Fly into Tokyo. Stay at hotel near airport. Flight to Osaka next day.
--any other ideas???

That was me that was talking about lack of large baggage space on the Shinkansen. Basically it is behind the seat of the last row on each car. Not alot of space for multiple bags and if you pile up too much baggage whoever is sitting in those seats would not be able to recline. You might be able to put the baggage in front of you in your seat, but that could get uncomfortable on a 3 hour ride. I would look at going to your hotel in Tokyo, pull out a day or 2 worth of clothes, and having them ship your bags to your hotel in Kyoto. It was about $15/bag and shows up the next day. You could even send it the day you arrive and they may be there when you arrive at the hotel in Kyoto. We did this when we went from Kyoto back to Tokyo and it worked out great. I was apprehensive, but our guide said that it was really commonplace. It's worth at least checking into. See the attached website. Another option, assuming that there are 4 of you, is to make sure you get seats in 2 consecutive rows on the side of the shinkansen with 2 seats. Those seats can then swivel so that you are facing each other which creates a little more storage room at your feet.
https://www.japanspecialist.co.uk/travel-tips/luggage/

 

[Mathmagicland]

Not sure if you're planning on economy or business. I've done both (generally between Tokyo and Jakarta, which is about 7-8 hours so not super long, but not short - though a few other routes as well). Both are good; however, I have never had a good meal in economy. I don't choose my airlines based on meals, but ANA economy (at least on the NRT-CGK route) is brutal. The business class meals (same route) are quite tasty.

We are going business class -decided that would be most comfortable. However on the short hop Tokyo to Osaka/Kansai I think it is coach, ok since it a local flight & just an hour. We are not going direct into Osaka as thru Tokyo we get better arrival times. Direct to Osaka we were seeing late afternoon arrival times, putting us very late afternoon into Kyoto. Going thru Tokyo Haneda, we arrive there 5 a.m, & will be in Osaka around 10:30 a.m. or so. That should give us the afternoon to start exploring Kyoto after we get to the hotel to drop our bags. We are planning to arrive the day before the AbD starts.

 

[Mathmagicland]

I can't remember what thread I was reading, but I saw something recently that threw a ratchet in my plans a little and I was hoping to see if anyone had any ideas.

It looks like right now that our best bet for flights will be in and out of Tokyo. As the ABD starts in Osaka, I was planning to come in a day early, stay at a hotel near the bullet train, and then take the bullet train to Osaka. But someone posted about doing something like that and mentioned that having big bags on the train would be a nightmare. As we'll be loaded down with all our bags, and I've pretty much given up on the idea of ever packing light (defeated multiple times, LOL), it made me wonder whether I should take a local flight instead? Unfortunately due to the timing of the west coast flights and the fact that it would be separate ticket that needed plenty of time between flights, I would still have to have the hotel night in between. I guess in that situation we would just stay somewhere near the airport.

So my choices right now:
--Fly into Tokyo. Stay at hotel near train. Train next day to Osaka with lots of bags.
--Fly into Tokyo. Stay at hotel near airport. Flight to Osaka next day.
--any other ideas???

Thanks so much for the input--will definitely keep in mind the Narita hotel.

We are looking at a number of different flights to Japan, and it will depend on what we end up with. I'm going for business/first so i'm trying to be as flexible as possible. United isn't going to work for me as they've had no business saver awards 11 months out at any of the flights I've been tracking. They've gotten so stingy it's ridiculous. I'm hoping for JAL but we may have to fly out of LAX to get all 4. I've got quite a list going I don't want to fly directly into Osaka from LAX because the flight JAL uses is an angled flat (annoying!) with no first class. I recalled someone mentioned luggage service so I"m looking into that. It looks like we can drop our luggage off at JAL in Tokyo and they will deliver to Osaka hotel for $30ish per bag, depending on size. There's also supposedly a good "hands free" luggage travel company that operates out of hotels. If anyone has experience with these definitely let me know!

I saw tons of saver availability from SFO as well. It's the business/first saver that's so disappointing--definitely can't pull the trigger on the regular fare either. Ouch!

Not sure where In California you are...my DS is by SFO & I am by LAX. I found for $$ the flights out of SFO more than twice out of LAX. One site that helped me research flights was the Japan Tour Bureau https://www.jtbusa.com/ because they showed me airlines And airport options I had not considered, ie Haneda vs Narita. That’s how we ended up finding the ANA Haneda options. The airlines they show can change, ie sometimes Singapore air comes up & other times not, I’m not quite sure why. They show primarily the Asian based carriers with some code share US carrier flights. We will not book thru them but it was helpful for research.

 

[Calfan]

Following this convo with interest since we’ll be needing those Japan flights for 2020. Sounds like connecting through Houston or LAX might be our best bets. I’m having similar luck with United saver awards for business/first for our Africa trip next summer (i.e., not much). Plentiful saver economy options. I ended up pulling the trigger on saver economy because it was by far the best route in terms of stops (only 1 between SFO and Johannesburg) and the least elapsed time (but still almost 4 hours in Munich between flights, so not too tight). I’m going to do my usual and stalk the United site relentlessly for upgrade opportunities. I’ve had about 50/50 success with this in the past, my best success being scoring saver first class upgrades between SFO and LHR about 6 days before our flight for our 2017 British Isles DCL cruise. @CousinOrville, we ended up in kind of the same boat as you did with your Tokyo extension. I was originally planning on coming in early for our Africa trip (to recover from jet lag, etc. and also to give some cushion for delays, missed connections, whatever) and spending two or three nights at the Victoria Falls Hotel before meeting our Botswana trip in Livingstone (it starts with Victoria Falls and then goes into Botswana). Looks like we’re going to spend 4 nights at the Vic Falls hotel instead because those were the best saver award/route/elapsed time combo and i also hope will offer the better opportunity for upgrades. I’m actually really excited about going back to the Vic Falls hotel, and it’s definitely a first world problem to *have* to spend 4 nights there, lol. I’ve been perusing their activities list, and it looks like there will be more than plenty to keep us occupied. @Cousin Orville, would love to get your dining suggestions. Ok, now back to the regularly scheduled discussion about Japan.....

 

[Cousin Orville]

Following this convo with interest since we’ll be needing those Japan flights for 2020. Sounds like connecting through Houston or LAX might be our best bets. I’m having similar luck with United saver awards for business/first for our Africa trip next summer (i.e., not much). Plentiful saver economy options. I ended up pulling the trigger on saver economy because it was by far the best route in terms of stops (only 1 between SFO and Johannesburg) and the least elapsed time (but still almost 4 hours in Munich between flights, so not too tight). I’m going to do my usual and stalk the United site relentlessly for upgrade opportunities. I’ve had about 50/50 success with this in the past, my best success being scoring saver first class upgrades between SFO and LHR about 6 days before our flight for our 2017 British Isles DCL cruise. @CousinOrville, we ended up in kind of the same boat as you did with your Tokyo extension. I was originally planning on coming in early for our Africa trip (to recover from jet lag, etc. and also to give some cushion for delays, missed connections, whatever) and spending two or three nights at the Victoria Falls Hotel before meeting our Botswana trip in Livingstone (it starts with Victoria Falls and then goes into Botswana). Looks like we’re going to spend 4 nights at the Vic Falls hotel instead because those were the best saver award/route/elapsed time combo and i also hope will offer the better opportunity for upgrades. I’m actually really excited about going back to the Vic Falls hotel, and it’s definitely a first world problem to *have* to spend 4 nights there, lol. I’ve been perusing their activities list, and it looks like there will be more than plenty to keep us occupied. @Cousin Orville, would love to get your dining suggestions. Ok, now back to the regularly scheduled discussion about Japan.....

Livingstone Room all 4 nights. Done.


Kidding. Sort of... I probably would book 2 nights. After the first you can always cancel the 2nd if you think it's overkill (crazy talk). We also did the casual dinner show at the VFH. That was fun. There's always Boma which we didn't do. It looks touristy and silly like a Hawaiian luau, but maybe a lot of fun. Other than that, I'll depend on you to let me know where you enjoyed eating after you get back
BTW, have you travelled to Africa in the winter time? DW and I are looking at options for 2019.

Edit - the casual Lookout Cafe that overlooks the Zambezi gorge was pretty good too. A good lunch spot close by.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

That was me that was talking about lack of large baggage space on the Shinkansen. Basically it is behind the seat of the last row on each car. Not alot of space for multiple bags and if you pile up too much baggage whoever is sitting in those seats would not be able to recline. You might be able to put the baggage in front of you in your seat, but that could get uncomfortable on a 3 hour ride. I would look at going to your hotel in Tokyo, pull out a day or 2 worth of clothes, and having them ship your bags to your hotel in Kyoto. It was about $15/bag and shows up the next day. You could even send it the day you arrive and they may be there when you arrive at the hotel in Kyoto. We did this when we went from Kyoto back to Tokyo and it worked out great. I was apprehensive, but our guide said that it was really commonplace. It's worth at least checking into. See the attached website. Another option, assuming that there are 4 of you, is to make sure you get seats in 2 consecutive rows on the side of the shinkansen with 2 seats. Those seats can then swivel so that you are facing each other which creates a little more storage room at your feet.
https://www.japanspecialist.co.uk/travel-tips/luggage/

A belated thank you then! You saved us from a potential stressful luggage situation. I suspect we'll end up sending it ahead, maybe even from the airport if we do JAL (they have their own bag service). Good to know about the seats though if we somehow manage to pack light (ROFL!!!). I will check out the link--thank you!

Not sure where In California you are...my DS is by SFO & I am by LAX. I found for $$ the flights out of SFO more than twice out of LAX. One site that helped me research flights was the Japan Tour Bureau https://www.jtbusa.com/ because they showed me airlines And airport options I had not considered, ie Haneda vs Narita. That’s how we ended up finding the ANA Haneda options. The airlines they show can change, ie sometimes Singapore air comes up & other times not, I’m not quite sure why. They show primarily the Asian based carriers with some code share US carrier flights. We will not book thru them but it was helpful for research.

We are in the bay area. LAX seems to have a lot more choices so we may hop SWA down there and fly out of there. Thanks for the link. I'll definitely check it out!

 

[Calfan]

Livingstone Room all 4 nights. Done.


Kidding. Sort of... I probably would book 2 nights. After the first you can always cancel the 2nd if you think it's overkill (crazy talk). We also did the casual dinner show at the VFH. That was fun. There's always Boma which we didn't do. It looks touristy and silly like a Hawaiian luau, but maybe a lot of fun. Other than that, I'll depend on you to let me know where you enjoyed eating after you get back
BTW, have you travelled to Africa in the winter time? DW and I are looking at options for 2019.

Edit - the casual Lookout Cafe that overlooks the Zambezi gorge was pretty good too. A good lunch spot close by.

Awesome! Thanks for the info. Will definitely book the Livingstone Room at least twice. The dinner show sounds like something my teens might enjoy so I’ll look into that as well as the Lookout Cafe.

And, yes my DH and I have travelled to Africa in the winter, if you are talking about winter in Africa. We have not done Africa in our winter. Our 2001 trip to Zambia/Zimbabwe was in the second half of June. The weather was perfect during the days since I don’t like heat (mostly in the 70s). It did get a lot colder at night than I was anticipating. I had one sweatshirt and one *track suit* that I wore so much. I ended up tossing the track suit at the end of the trip because I couldn’t stand to look at it anymore, lol. Ironically, we got much better use out of our safari wear on our stopover in London on the way home where we hit a heat wave and it was oppressively hot.

 

[calypso726]

I can't remember what thread I was reading, but I saw something recently that threw a ratchet in my plans a little and I was hoping to see if anyone had any ideas.

It looks like right now that our best bet for flights will be in and out of Tokyo. As the ABD starts in Osaka, I was planning to come in a day early, stay at a hotel near the bullet train, and then take the bullet train to Osaka. But someone posted about doing something like that and mentioned that having big bags on the train would be a nightmare. As we'll be loaded down with all our bags, and I've pretty much given up on the idea of ever packing light (defeated multiple times, LOL), it made me wonder whether I should take a local flight instead? Unfortunately due to the timing of the west coast flights and the fact that it would be separate ticket that needed plenty of time between flights, I would still have to have the hotel night in between. I guess in that situation we would just stay somewhere near the airport.

So my choices right now:
--Fly into Tokyo. Stay at hotel near train. Train next day to Osaka with lots of bags.
--Fly into Tokyo. Stay at hotel near airport. Flight to Osaka next day.
--any other ideas???

Book JAL using BA Avios. It is a short haul flight so 4,500 Avios and $3.90 per person. You can transfer Chase UR to BA. I am also planning to come in a day or two early and then plan to use BA Avios for any internal or regional flights.

But if that doesn't pan out then on to plan B. You could also fly ANA. I saw some flights at $77 which would be 5,133 UR per person. You can credit the flight to United and also earn some butt in seat miles too.

As for hotels near NRT there are plenty to choose from. There is the Hilton Tokyo Narita hotel (20K Hilton points or free weekend night with Aspire), the ANA Crowne Plaza (20K IHG points or use free annual award night), the Radisson Hotel Narita (15K Club Carlson points).

 

[calypso726]

We are looking at a number of different flights to Japan, and it will depend on what we end up with. I'm going for business/first so i'm trying to be as flexible as possible. United isn't going to work for me as they've had no business saver awards 11 months out at any of the flights I've been tracking. They've gotten so stingy it's ridiculous. I'm hoping for JAL but we may have to fly out of LAX to get all 4. I've got quite a list going I don't want to fly directly into Osaka from LAX because the flight JAL uses is an angled flat (annoying!) with no first class.

LAX seems to have a lot more choices so we may hop SWA down there and fly out of there.

We flew JAL on the PVG-NRT route in business last month. The seat was an angle flat but was not bad. I did a United angle flat seat once and hated it. I could have flown from the US to NRT in that seat and been perfectly fine. Even DH aka "The Plane Princess" was impressed and said he'd have been fine on that angle flat on JAL for 11+ hours.

Ugh! I know what you mean about the stinginess for premium seats on certain routes. BA has been ridiculous too. I just booked flights to Scotland for next year on BA and using the travel together ticket we earned with their credit card. Nothing out of Miami has been released in first class for months. I wound up booking it out of New York and will take a positioning flight to get there the night before and go play tourist around the city the next day before our flight. On the way back, I'll do the same thing and catch a show while I'm at it. I know it is possible when it comes time to book our Japan ABD flights, we may have to do a positioning flight from somewhere else. I'm good with that if it means we get to fly up front and sleep reasonably comfortable on the way over.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

A belated thank you then! You saved us from a potential stressful luggage situation. I suspect we'll end up sending it ahead, maybe even from the airport if we do JAL (they have their own bag service). Good to know about the seats though if we somehow manage to pack light (ROFL!!!). I will check out the link--thank you!

On our 2014 trip we took the Shinkansen from Tokyo to Kyoto and back, and on our 2016 trip we took it from Osaka to Tokyo. On all three trips the four of us had large suitcases and a couple carry-ons, and it was never a problem to stow our luggage.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Book JAL using BA Avios. It is a short haul flight so 4,500 Avios and $3.90 per person. You can transfer Chase UR to BA. I am also planning to come in a day or two early and then plan to use BA Avios for any internal or regional flights.

But if that doesn't pan out then on to plan B. You could also fly ANA. I saw some flights at $77 which would be 5,133 UR per person. You can credit the flight to United and also earn some butt in seat miles too.

As for hotels near NRT there are plenty to choose from. There is the Hilton Tokyo Narita hotel (20K Hilton points or free weekend night with Aspire), the ANA Crowne Plaza (20K IHG points or use free annual award night), the Radisson Hotel Narita (15K Club Carlson points).

Great minds! I''m definitely planning to use Avios if we fly. DH has been to Japan a couple times and he said the bullet train is a must do, which is why we were focusing on that. I think they do a shorter ride in the ABD itinerary, but I would have to double check. Thanks also for the hotels near NRT if we go that route! Awesome.

We flew JAL on the PVG-NRT route in business last month. The seat was an angle flat but was not bad. I did a United angle flat seat once and hated it. I could have flown from the US to NRT in that seat and been perfectly fine. Even DH aka "The Plane Princess" was impressed and said he'd have been fine on that angle flat on JAL for 11+ hours.

Ugh! I know what you mean about the stinginess for premium seats on certain routes. BA has been ridiculous too. I just booked flights to Scotland for next year on BA and using the travel together ticket we earned with their credit card. Nothing out of Miami has been released in first class for months. I wound up booking it out of New York and will take a positioning flight to get there the night before and go play tourist around the city the next day before our flight. On the way back, I'll do the same thing and catch a show while I'm at it. I know it is possible when it comes time to book our Japan ABD flights, we may have to do a positioning flight from somewhere else. I'm good with that if it means we get to fly up front and sleep reasonably comfortable on the way over.

Good to know if we end up "stuck" with the angled seat. I think it's only on one of our possible flights so I'm still hoping to avoid. The bigger issue is they don't have first that flight so we wouldn't have the 4 option (we're hoping to do 2 in first and 2 in business). I'm resolved to positioning if I need to. That sucks about BA and Miami. I thought they were usually pretty good! But I'm near a hub for them so maybe that's why.

On our 2014 trip we took the Shinkansen from Tokyo to Kyoto and back, and on our 2016 trip we took it from Osaka to Tokyo. On all three trips the four of us had large suitcases and a couple carry-ons, and it was never a problem to stow our luggage.

That's great to know! We will be a party of 4 with the same bag situation. Did you take the fast one or the slow one? We're thinking if we take the fast one (which presumably has less tourists as the rail pass isn't good on it), might leave more room for luggage.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

That's great to know! We will be a party of 4 with the same bag situation. Did you take the fast one or the slow one? We're thinking if we take the fast one (which presumably has less tourists as the rail pass isn't good on it), might leave more room for luggage.

We always took the bullet trains that were available on the JR pass. If I remember right those aren’t much slower than the ones that aren’t covered. I think we put our big suitcases on racks near the door and our smaller ones above or in front of us.

 

[sayhello]

Great minds! I''m definitely planning to use Avios if we fly. DH has been to Japan a couple times and he said the bullet train is a must do, which is why we were focusing on that. I think they do a shorter ride in the ABD itinerary, but I would have to double check. Thanks also for the hotels near NRT if we go that route! Awesome.

I had to look up what Avios was, and I came across this article:

https://www.businessinsider.com/british-airways-avios-frequent-flyer-scheme-closing-points-2018-4

Don't know if this impacts you or not?

Sayhello

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I had to look up what Avios was, and I came across this article:

https://www.businessinsider.com/british-airways-avios-frequent-flyer-scheme-closing-points-2018-4

Don't know if this impacts you or not?

Sayhello

No--thank goodness. I use British Air executive club. I'm not surprised. Having a separate website like that was very confusing!

 

[sayhello]

No--thank goodness. I use British Air executive club. I'm not surprised. Having a separate website like that was very confusing!

Glad to hear it! Air Canada does the same thing, with 2 plan websites, and I can never tell where I am or which one I'm supposed to be on.

Sayhello

 

[Mathmagicland]

Thought I’d share in case something similar is offered in other areas - I signed up for a Japanese for Travelers class today! The local adult education offers some language classes for travelers, a different topic each week for 10 weeks to teach some basic phrases. Since we are on the April trip and I don’t know when the spring class dates will be, I’m taking it in the fall. Should be fun! If I can fit it in, I may take it again in the spring as a refresher or the other Japanese class offered which is to practice speaking skills. I’d like to be able to attempt some Japanese while we are there.

 

[sayhello]

Thought I’d share in case something similar is offered in other areas - I signed up for a Japanese for Travelers class today! The local adult education offers some language classes for travelers, a different topic each week for 10 weeks to teach some basic phrases. Since we are on the April trip and I don’t know when the spring class dates will be, I’m taking it in the fall. Should be fun! If I can fit it in, I may take it again in the spring as a refresher or the other Japanese class offered which is to practice speaking skills. I’d like to be able to attempt some Japanese while we are there.

What a great idea!!

Sayhello

 

[CaliKris]

Thought I’d share in case something similar is offered in other areas - I signed up for a Japanese for Travelers class today! The local adult education offers some language classes for travelers, a different topic each week for 10 weeks to teach some basic phrases. Since we are on the April trip and I don’t know when the spring class dates will be, I’m taking it in the fall. Should be fun! If I can fit it in, I may take it again in the spring as a refresher or the other Japanese class offered which is to practice speaking skills. I’d like to be able to attempt some Japanese while we are there.

I did this very thing and highly recommend it! I took an 8 week class and supplemented it with Mango Languages which is free online with our local library card. Very helpful because both were geared toward travelers. We found the Japanese love it when Westerners attempt to speak their language and were very forgiving with my terrible pronounciation and American accent. It is always fun to interact with locals when traveling and enhances the experience. Plus we got totally lost when trying to find our ryokan. I called the hotel and with my broken Japanese abd her very limited English we were able to find our way!