It's about time! This is long overdue...

[Lumpy1106]

Flight attendants are calling for ending lap babies on planes. I am STUNNED that this was ever allowed. We always, ALWAYS bought a seat for each of our kids and had them strapped into the car seats that we brought on board for the duration. ALWAYS, EVERY TIME. I also absolutely applaud the suggestion that a reduced fare be offered for kids - say under 10?

https://www.sfgate.com/lifestyle/tr...want-to-ban-lap-babies-on-planes-17843491.php

 

[SteveH]

I don't have a dog in the fight over lap vs car seats. I do take issue with socialism style pricing since everyone else pays for that seat subsidized seat. If all seats are $100 on a 200 passenger flight and 20 are reduced to $50 the airline needs to make up the $1,000 thus everyone else is subsidizing that child's seat by $7. I don't feel the need to do that. Flying is not a right, its a luxury. This is no difference for the person that can not fit in a single seat having to pay for as second seat.

 

[Marrila]

It's up to the FAA to make changes or not.
I agree seat discounts by age are kind of ridiculous. Car seats generally have to be placed in (preferred location) window seats.

 

[georgina]

We traveled with a lap baby a few times. I guess some of us were not perfect parents. I think when DD flew with her 5 month old to the UK last summer BA provided some sort of bassinet.

 

[Kae]

We always bought a seat started flying when DS was 6 months old. Didn't use a carseat past age 2.

 

[brockash]

We flew all the time with lap babies too. Certainly not the easiest trips we've had, but didn't impede on any other passengers experiences either.

 

[georgina]

Our trips were in 1990/1991 when it wasn't as common to travel with a car seat on the plane. Interesting from the Washington Post article on this -

Hoffman recognizes the drawbacks of requiring parents to purchase airplane tickets for their youngsters. The main concern is that families will not be able to afford the airfare and will resort to driving, a more perilous mode of transportation.

“If they travel by car instead, they will actually be putting themselves at a significantly greater risk, because car crashes are so much more common than airplane incidents, whether it’s a crash or turbulence,” Hoffman said.

To emphasize his point, he cited a 2003 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association Pediatrics that assessed the risks to children if families switched from air to car travel. The researchers determined that if as few as 5 to 10 percent of travelers hit the road instead of flying, the number of infant deaths caused by car accidents would likely exceed the number of fatalities averted by requiring child restraints on planes.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I don't have a dog in the fight over lap vs car seats. I do take issue with socialism style pricing since everyone else pays for that seat subsidized seat. If all seats are $100 on a 200 passenger flight and 20 are reduced to $50 the airline needs to make up the $1,000 thus everyone else is subsidizing that child's seat by $7. I don't feel the need to do that. Flying is not a right, its a luxury. This is no difference for the person that can not fit in a single seat having to pay for as second seat.

Good point - On Southwest, a larger individual can buy an extra seat, then gets that seat refunded if there is ANY open seat on the plane.

OK, do that for lap-baby age kids too.

ALSO:
You are really not paying attention if you think everyone on the plane is paying the same fare. No way. You pay a lot more if you do not book far in advance. That's why the airlines cater to business travelers. They do not care what the fare is and they tend to fly frequently, on short notice.

Can an airline impose a requirement they feel is for safety even when the FAA does not? Asking - I really don't know.

 

[Marrila]

Good point - On Southwest, a larger individual can buy an extra seat, then gets that seat refunded if there is ANY open seat on the plane.

OK, do that for lap-baby age kids too.

ALSO:
You are really not paying attention if you think everyone on the plane is paying the same fare. No way. You pay a lot more if you do not book far in advance. That's why the airlines cater to business travelers. They do not care what the fare is and they tend to fly frequently, on short notice.

Can an airline impose a requirement they feel is for safety even when the FAA does not? I really don't know.

No. The FAA has the first and last word on lap baby requirements and possible options.

 

[Carol_]

I don't have a dog in the fight over lap vs car seats. I do take issue with socialism style pricing since everyone else pays for that seat subsidized seat. If all seats are $100 on a 200 passenger flight and 20 are reduced to $50 the airline needs to make up the $1,000 thus everyone else is subsidizing that child's seat by $7. I don't feel the need to do that. Flying is not a right, its a luxury. This is no difference for the person that can not fit in a single seat having to pay for as second seat.

When you buy a large shirt, it is subsidized by all the people buying the same shirt in a smaller size but paying the same price. It happens. I don’t feel the need to do it, but I do it, because I want a shirt in my size. Airlines want families to fly.

 

[Marrila]

When you buy a large shirt, it is subsidized by all the people buying the same shirt in a smaller size but paying the same price. It happens. I don’t feel the need to do it, but I do it, because I want a shirt in my size. Airlines want families to fly.

And that is basically why lap babies will continue to be permitted. Surprisingly, statistics show It's much safer for lap babies to fly than for them to be in a car seat in the more dangerous automobile.

 

[Lumpy1106]

And that is basically why lap babies will continue to be permitted. Surprisingly, statistics show It's much safer for lap babies to fly than for them to be in a car seat in the more dangerous automobile.

That's a strawman argument. What do families do when they have to book at the last minute? They drive - or they don't go. That last-minute-ticket premium is multiplied when you are talking about families. The choice isn't between flying and driving, it's between flying with a kid in a carseat vs. sitting on your lap. It's a little cheaper to hold them on your lap, it's a whole lot cheaper to drive. If the FAA came out tomorrow and said you could no longer hold the kid in your lap, it would affect the demand on airline travel not at all.

 

[Marrila]

That's a strawman argument. What do families do when they have to book at the last minute? They drive - or they don't go. That last-minute-ticket premium is multiplied when you are talking about families. The choice isn't between flying and driving, it's between flying with a kid in a carseat vs. sitting on your lap. It's a little cheaper to hold them on your lap, it's a whole lot cheaper to drive. If the FAA came out tomorrow and said you could no longer hold the kid in your lap, it would affect the demand on airline travel not at all.

I'm not arguing w anyone. I'm just telling you the reason the status quo continues to stand.

 

[Kestryl]

(Disclaimer: I don’t have a kid.)

“The tragedy that haunts Nelson occurred in 1989, when United Flight 232 crash-landed in Sioux City, Iowa. Following protocol, the flight attendants instructed the parents to wrap their unbuckled babies in blankets and place them on the floor. Three of the infants suffered injuries, and one died.”

I feel like this is incredibly misleading as evidence to require car seats. Of the 296 passengers and crew on the plane, 112 died. Based on a map of the passengers’ dates, the infant who died had died from smoke inhalation. Not sure how a seat would have helped. (Interestingly, the map indicates that two of the other infants had no injury while the third had a minor injury, so there is some discrepancy here.)

 

[jimmymc]

Based on their reasoning, I think it would be more prudent to development a safety system for the lap children than requiring a seat. But their arguments are pretty weak to begin with, throwing out hypothetical situations when many passengers don't even wear their seatbelts and where proper procedures weren't developed yet or followed.

 

[Tenkawa]

One factor that I think may get overlooked, is lap infants must be 24 months of age or less.

I have taken my almost 2 year old on a flight to hawaii as a lap infant. He needed to be held the entire time. A good chunk was napping, but between feeding and being fussy with the cabin pressure, and the movement restrictions, he needed active management so as not to be "that crying baby".

The car seat isn't a magical fix unfortunately, as I expect 90% of the time they will not be in it (just takeoff and landing if regulated). Once they get around 2 years old, they are old enough that they can handle being in a seat for a few hours.

Also, babies want to be held the most during takeoff and landing.