Island Tower at Polynesian Villas & Bungalows

[maui22]

I must be unlucky because I am not finding it easy to book the CFW cabins unless I look all the way to 7 months out. I only intend to buy a CFW fixed week during December and sincerely hope I can stay off peak easily using the rest of my SAPs.

With this news, you may find more luck?
https://wdwnt.com/2024/08/sewage-street-loops-unusable-fort-wilderness/

 

[intamin]

With this news, you may find more luck?
https://wdwnt.com/2024/08/sewage-street-loops-unusable-fort-wilderness/

CFW doing it's best Liberty Square impersonation

 

[Genie+]

If DVD is caught off guard with low CFW sales? Then they didn’t fully appreciate the hurdles of those high dues.

We’re not talking about purchase decisions needing to disregard the differences between $8 or $9 dues. We’re talking near VB level conversations and calculations.

Anybody looking for advice because CFW or VB looks attractive enough for them buy will be immediately met with one point in particular - the very high dues outweigh the pros in most cases. It is only a very niche set of expectations/usage that make those dues acceptable. Right off the bat if part of the plan is to trade out regularly or even occasionally, there are better options. It is very hard to argue CFW is the best resort purchase decision unless that person plans to stay in the cabins year after year in the highest demand seasons.

CFW can spark interest for DVC but I think most people who first run a few cost comparisons with other buying strategies ultimately find a better fit elsewhere. Even for potential buyers that only know about Direct - CFW is a hard sale. It’s still competing with other direct options plastered everywhere Direct is advertising. Unless you’re a die hard FW fan who plans cabin stays for decades… would they still buy CFW?

I figured they understood and counted on future details that would increase CFW interest enough to overcome that aspect. And because of that didn’t want to unnecessarily make incentives too strong early on when the complete package is likely to sell easier without seriously deep incentives. If there isn’t urgency to sell CFW points because cash rates bring enough money in the interim, then setting pricing bar too low might hurt how much you can get in the near future, after announcements are made about more intriguing developments for CFW.

 

[Sandisw]

It makes me wonder a lot more about the buyer if they aren’t checking every penny to make sure the math works.

$375 in dues can absolutely be the difference in the math working or not working versus just renting points. And $375 per year for 50 years is a lot of money.

In any case, the reason many people think the dues are too high, is because the dues are too high.

I’d rather spend $375 more every year to guarantee that I get the home resort booking I want.

While math can be important, I personally don’t think it should ever cause one to go with a second choice resort.

 

[OKW Lover]

In any case, the reason many people think the dues are too high, is because the dues are too high.

I wonder what services people think should be cut out of the cost of the dues.

 

[tidefan]

I wonder what services people think should be cut out of the cost of the dues.

I'd like to know the breakdown of the dues. I suppose we'll see that at the end of the year. My guess is that there is a much higher reserve on these than a regular room as it does not share a structure.

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

I’d rather spend $375 more every year to guarantee that I get the home resort booking I want. While math can be important, I personally don’t think it should ever cause one to go with a second choice resort.

Agreed - At this level of investment in a completely discretionary timeshare purchase, the extra $375 should not be a deciding factor.

As a SAP option? No, there are much better options. But if this a resort where someone wants to own because they like the resort....

 

[disneylandtour]

If DVD is caught off guard with low CFW sales? Then they didn’t fully appreciate the hurdles of those high dues.

We’re not talking about purchase decisions needing to disregard the differences between $8 or $9 dues. We’re talking near VB level conversations and calculations.

Anybody looking for advice because CFW or VB looks attractive enough for them buy will be immediately met with one point in particular - the very high dues outweigh the pros in most cases. It is only a very niche set of expectations/usage that make those dues acceptable. Right off the bat if part of the plan is to trade out regularly or even occasionally, there are better options. It is very hard to argue CFW is the best resort purchase decision unless that person plans to stay in the cabins year after year in the highest demand seasons.

CFW can spark interest for DVC but I think most people who first run a few cost comparisons with other buying strategies ultimately find a better fit elsewhere. Even for potential buyers that only know about Direct - CFW is a hard sale. It’s still competing with other direct options plastered everywhere Direct is advertising. Unless you’re a die hard FW fan who plans cabin stays for decades… would they still buy CFW?

I figured they understood and counted on future details that would increase CFW interest enough to overcome that aspect. And because of that didn’t want to unnecessarily make incentives too strong early on when the complete package is likely to sell easier without seriously deep incentives. If there isn’t urgency to sell CFW points because cash rates bring enough money in the interim, then setting pricing bar too low might hurt how much you can get in the near future, after announcements are made about more intriguing developments for CFW.

I'm pretty sure the largest driver for CFW was that dogs were allowed (at a pretty significant upcharge). If it wasn't for that, I think sales would've 50% lower. Certain people will pay to bring their pets, even with high MF and a per visit pet charge. But I also think that the people who are interested in those options have mostly already bought. In terms of MF, I think the best deals are BLT and SSR.

 

[intamin]

If DVD is caught off guard with low CFW sales? Then they didn’t fully appreciate the hurdles of those high dues.

I don't understand how they could NOT have predicted low sales..

1. Poor incentives/high buy in cost
2. Non park adjacent resort/no other transportation besides buses WITH an internal bus loop
3. Actual conversion of a moderate resort to deluxe
4. No new amenities
5. The highest dues in ALL of Disney World, and second in the entire DVC system only behind Vero Beach
6. Lack of a true table service restaurant
7. Resale restrictions
8. 1 room type for the entire resort

Do I need to go on? The only people I see buying here are people who want to stay at CFW during Halloween and Christmas which is a very niche demographic. IMO CFW won't sell until they attach Reflections/River Country 2.0 to it or discount the hell out of it to it's appropriate designation as a moderate resort.

 

[Genie+]

I'm pretty sure the largest driver for CFW was that dogs were allowed (at a pretty significant upcharge). If it wasn't for that, I think sales would've 50% lower. Certain people will pay to bring their pets, even with high MF and a per visit pet charge. But I also think that the people who are interested in those options have mostly already bought. In terms of MF, I think the best deals are BLT and SSR.

Good point. Pets were a big winner in the pros column. Even some of that group became discouraged after seeing the resort contract left open the option to remove the pet allowance. It probably won’t be an issue, just not guaranteed.

 

[Genie+]

The only people I see buying here are people who want to stay at CFW during Halloween and Christmas which is a very niche demographic

Yep. That’s the best case to buy I think. Works well specifically for that, and if they want to stay elsewhere they have other contracts for those stays.

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

Certain people will pay to bring their pets, even with high MF and a per visit pet charge. But I also think that the people who are interested in those options have mostly already bought.

Agree with this. I always assumed the CFW target demographic was the cash paying CFW population buying points out of loyalty/nostalgia (that's me by the way), and a special effort to entice a new customer base thanks to new cabins designed to vaguely invoke CCV Cabins and/or PVB Bungalows (albeit with no view at CFW) at a fraction of the point cost and 6 person sleeping capacity. I could see something like that as the well-intentioned internal DVD sales pitch to add CFW to the DVC portfolio.

DVD had just one small set back - vast majority of real world direct prospective buyers decided CFW is a train wreck and sprinted away from CFW contracts towards everything (Riviera?) else.

 

[disneylandtour]

Yep. That’s the best case to buy I think. Works well specifically for that, and if they want to stay elsewhere they have other contracts for those stays.

I just checked one year out. One bedroom Cabin rents for $493. The member fees alone on a one bedroom cabin (I realize that these are slightly different) for the same night is $243 for the 20 points required. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any place on property where MF are half of an equivalent room rental.

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

The only people I see buying here are people who want to stay at CFW during Halloween and Christmas which is a very niche demographic.

Yep. That’s the best case to buy I think. Works well specifically for that, and if they want to stay elsewhere they have other contracts for those stays.

Yep. That's my fact pattern.

 

[hockeydad21]

All this CFW talk in a poly thread got me feeling like this guy…

 

[Brob2132]

It’s already a very specific audience: Outdoorsy types. Even if there weren’t some of the drawbacks listed above, that’s not what a large % of the Disney ecosystem are interested in. I know we wouldn’t be.

 

[CastAStone]

I wonder what services people think should be cut out of the cost of the dues.

I think they shouldn’t have built a DVC there if that was the expense structure.

 

[CastAStone]

I don't understand how they could NOT have predicted low sales..

1. Poor incentives/high buy in cost
2. Non park adjacent resort/no other transportation besides buses WITH an internal bus loop
3. Actual conversion of a moderate resort to deluxe
4. No new amenities
5. The highest dues in ALL of Disney World, and second in the entire DVC system only behind Vero Beach
6. Lack of a true table service restaurant
7. Resale restrictions
8. 1 room type for the entire resort

Do I need to go on? The only people I see buying here are people who want to stay at CFW during Halloween and Christmas which is a very niche demographic. IMO CFW won't sell until they attach Reflections/River Country 2.0 to it or discount the hell out of it to it's appropriate designation as a moderate resort.

There aren’t enough like buttons for this post.

 

[disneylandtour]

I think they shouldn’t have built a DVC there if that was the expense structure.

Oh that's coming, too. Pretty sure about that.

 

[Genie+]

I just checked one year out. One bedroom Cabin rents for $493. The member fees alone on a one bedroom cabin (I realize that these are slightly different) for the same night is $243 for the 20 points required. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any place on property where MF are half of an equivalent room rental.

There’s actually a decent amount. Even just one resort for example - Poly. Mid Sept to year’s end is $800 to $1500 a night, while member dues for those same rooms from under $200/nt to a maximum of around $400/nt. Here the MF are closer 25%. There’s many other examples in between.

$243 for 20pt/nt is great. Adding buy-in cost then comparing to rack rate discounts starts closing the gap. Buying CFW can still win economically, plus the added value for Fort Lovers to own, and the value of home priority. But what happens with an occasional trade-out. That math gets tougher. I’ll use our next booking, mid-Nov VGF. We booked 2 studios at 23pts/nt avg each (1BR is similar total point cost). MF on these 268pts cost me $2,029. If I used my BWV contract, dues would be $2,324. CFW would cost me $3,256. That $1,000 quickly eats into the small gap of savings on the CFW trips. Take any reservation, run CFW and any other resort owner’s MF. The vast majority of trade calculations have a 30 to 40% MF surcharge, no matter the WDW resort being booked or the points owned.

To stay cost effective most or all trips need to be those cabins. We also see how commonly members change travel patterns after experiencing more of DVC. There is little flexibility to pivot like that for CFW. The added value of DVC’s flexibility is kind of missing here. Buyer’s need to be very confident about one specific room/resort for decades. Very narrow buyer pool.

If CFW goes and builds up that resort? That has the potential to change all this. What if they add something like Reflections, more amenities like unique restaurants and innovative pool, add a Trust option going forward, etc… The buy-in and MF could start making sense to a much larger buyer pool. More room to pivot and more magic.