Is "Walking a reservation" unethical?

[quinnc19]

Drusba, I would definitely not be a fan of a 5 night required minimum to book at 11 months. We make many shorter trips (3-4 days) and are fans of split stays. I own 500 points currently (AKV, BWV, Poly at WDW) and have never stayed in the same room for 5 nights since I became an owner 5 years ago.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So... I posted on another thread about this- but I just called for my reservation walking for our dec 3-11 trip (bwv and BLT std). The cm said it wasn't allowed and is unethical and they monitor our memberships for this sort of behavior.

She was pretty pissed.

However, from what I understand, a few ppl have reported cm's recommending the walking. Plus, no where is there a ban or discouragement of walking on the official papers that we received.

I only have 2 more phone calls and this is the only time we plan on walking (we generally do 1bds) but i was completely taken aback at the utter anger....

There's also been a CM or 2 who has stated that renting is not allowed etc, etc. Sounds like you got one like that. In the end it doesn't matter because it's not against the rules but apparently they had their own thoughts on it - many CMs seem to also own DVC and this one may have felt they were impacted or maybe they see some writing on the wall with possible changes that would greatly impact people such as a fee to change. Hard to say. It sounds like you called and said you wanted to walk? Not really necessary.

 

[clarkgriswold]

I still dn't get how this approach creates an advantage.

If I book today for 11/27/16 for 7 nights at BWV, but I really want to check in 12/22/16, I still am not allowed to walk the reservation to that date until 01/21/16, just like anyone else who wants to check in that date.

What am I missing?

 

[Dean]

I still dn't get how this approach creates an advantage.

If I book today for 11/27/16 for 7 nights at BWV, but I really want to check in 12/22/16, I still am not allowed to walk the reservation to that date until 01/21/16, just like anyone else who wants to check in that date.

What am I missing?

You can walk it in steps to that date. The main advantage is over those who don't know or don't follow through on this approach. Allowing it creates an advantage for that group over those who think the rules are simple as published.

 

[suebeelin]

There's also been a CM or 2 who has stated that renting is not allowed etc, etc. Sounds like you got one like that. In the end it doesn't matter because it's not against the rules but apparently they had their own thoughts on it - many CMs seem to also own DVC and this one may have felt they were impacted or maybe they see some writing on the wall with possible changes that would greatly impact people such as a fee to change. Hard to say. It sounds like you called and said you wanted to walk? Not really necessary.

The cm asked why I had so many cancelled reservations within the last few weeks. I told her I wanted to make sure I had dec 3-11. She got pissed ;( and chastised me. It kinda ruined my morning....

It's only 2 more phone calls and I'll be done.

 

[BobH]

No matter what the cm's opinion is she had no business berating you for something that is allowed by Disney. The professional approach would be for her to work within the Disney system to get it changed if it offends her.

 

[Dean]

The cm asked why I had so many cancelled reservations within the last few weeks. I told her I wanted to make sure I had dec 3-11. She got pissed ;( and chastised me. It kinda ruined my morning....

It's only 2 more phone calls and I'll be done.

Maybe it's changing or maybe you just got a rogue employee, I'm hoping for the former.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I have mentioned to Member Satisfaction many times, including at the association meeting this month that i do not think that " walking " a reservation should be allowed.

Bobbi

 

[DebbieB]

I have mentioned to Member Satisfaction many times, including at the association meeting this month that i do not think that " walking " a reservation should be allowed.

Bobbi

The question is how would they control it without hurting someone who is legitimately changing dates. I would not be in favor of no changes without rebooking, I frequently drop a night at the beginning or end after I see airline schedules.

 

[clarkgriswold]

You can walk it in steps to that date. The main advantage is over those who don't know or don't follow through on this approach. Allowing it creates an advantage for that group over those who think the rules are simple as published.

Ok, but still, in my last call to walk it forward on 01/22/2016, what advantage do I have over someone who is calling for the first time on the same morning to book for 12/22/2016?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have mentioned to Member Satisfaction many times, including at the association meeting this month that i do not think that " walking " a reservation should be allowed.

Bobbi

The best controls for that is to either require every change to be a cancel and rebook or to implement a charge for any change to a reservation. I'd be far less in favor of either of those than to be concerned about walking.

I'll add that I don't have a feeling it makes much difference for any rooms other than the few small categories and with those I don't feel I have any more right to them than others. Even AKV concierge I look at as something we enjoy but I have only ever booked it if it happens to be open. I know about walking so if it were extremely important I could do it to guarantee my reservation. Being west coast we're always behind the 8 ball anyway unless we want to get up way earlier than I prefer to. I'd likely consider any solution to be a detriment to the flexibility that I most like about DVC.

 

[Dean]

The question is how would they control it without hurting someone who is legitimately changing dates. I would not be in favor of no changes without rebooking, I frequently drop a night at the beginning or end after I see airline schedules.

The way to do it is to make is simple, just like changing resorts or unit types would be, make each change a cancelation and rebooking. IMO they should "hurt" someone who's changing dates if "hurt" means putting them on the same playing field as someone who wants the new dates at the same time.

Ok, but still, in my last call to walk it forward on 01/22/2016, what advantage do I have over someone who is calling for the first time on the same morning to book for 12/22/2016?

Sure you do if you are walking because you already hold the room you don't intend to use and no one else can book if there's no availability. The way walking works is you hold a full week then call and roll those dates forward for up to 6 days at a time. Assuming the resort is old out at the moment, no one else can reserve the dates in question. Now I realize that someone will reserve those dates but it will not necessarily be the person who was following the rule to book 11 months out for up to 7 days. If it were a cancelation and rebooking, I'd agree with you.

 

[skier_pete]

The cm asked why I had so many cancelled reservations within the last few weeks. I told her I wanted to make sure I had dec 3-11. She got pissed ;( and chastised me. It kinda ruined my morning....

It's only 2 more phone calls and I'll be done.

Your making a lot of extra work for the Cast Members - some of them probably think it's wrong to do. (Hence the existance of this thread.)

If I had to walk a reservation for weeks, I couldn't be bothered, but I have nothing against people doing it - I'm on the "it's not unethical" side.

Just - as I've said before - be sure you HAVE to do it. If it does become more and more commonplace - they WILL find a way to take it away to the (likely) negative repercussions for all of us - if the result is all reservations have to be canceled to make changes, there will be a LOT of unhappy DVCers.

It's not unlike the free all day parking at the resorts and the late FP - as soon as people abused them to the point it made trouble for all, then they took it away. If this truly becomes commonplace, it will be stopped.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I suppose your opinion about walking is influenced by whether you typically book something that is valuable enough to walk.

 

[Dean]

I suppose your opinion about walking is influenced by whether you typically book something that is valuable enough to walk.

I don't believe in situational ethics. IMO it's wrong for DVC to give the option. However, if it's allowed within the rule (it's not the rule) then I don't believe it's unethical to do so. There are extremely limited situations where any option available to the general membership is unethical for the individual. I'd bet they eventually make the change though I wouldn't be surprised if they extend the number of days that can be booked to 10 or 14 (more likely) days at the same time. However, it's still possible to do essentially the same thing by booking, canceling and rebooking if one does so quickly, assuming they don't hold cancelations from being available for booking right away. The big difference is it's done online rather than tying up MS which we pay for. The ways to prevent the cancel rebook type of walking include a fee to cancel, a limit on number of cancelations, or to prevent cancelations from being immediately available. Likely the best one in keeping with the culture is a limited number of free cancelations per UY with a fee for any above that.

 

[kristenrice]

I must be super-unethical...

I am an owner at AKV so I booked both a 1br std (for three nights) AND a standard studio (2 of the same 3) at the 11-month mark for our October trip. After I used BWV points to secure a 2BR std a BWV for the rest of my family, my plan is to try and get a std 1BR for us at the 7-month mark. If we can't get all 7 nights, then I have 2 other possibilities...
...3 nights in Std 1BR at AKV and 4 nights in Std 1BR at BWV...
...or 2 nights in a Std studio at AKV and 5 nights in a pool/garden 1BR at BWV. The goal is to try and get as many nights at BWV in a 1BR as I can with my meager 171 available points. I know my chances of a studio are slim to none and we prefer 1BRs anyway.

Basically, I'm holding 2 concurrent reservations as back ups. Obviously, I can't use both of them, but I know that October can be a tough time to get a studio at 7 months so I wanted to make sure I have one if I need it.

I wonder why people are so upset by walking when there are far more people that book at 11-months at their home resort with the intention of cancelling and getting something else at 7 months. I mean, GFV owners can get shut out of a studio at 11 months but what if a GFV owner books their studio with the intention of switching to PVB at 7 months? Nobody seems to have an issue with this, in fact, it's encouraged! I don't really see how it is any different than walking. Someone is temporarily tying up a room that they have no intention of using which causes someone else to either wait to book or use the waitlist. Just get on the waitlist (or stalk if you don't trust the waitlist) and if you are first on the list, then you have lost nothing. If you are 6th on the list, then the people walking didn't effect you anyway.

 

[Dean]

I must be super-unethical...

I am an owner at AKV so I booked both a 1br std (for three nights) AND a standard studio (2 of the same 3) at the 11-month mark for our October trip. After I used BWV points to secure a 2BR std a BWV for the rest of my family, my plan is to try and get a std 1BR for us at the 7-month mark. If we can't get all 7 nights, then I have 2 other possibilities...
...3 nights in Std 1BR at AKV and 4 nights in Std 1BR at BWV...
...or 2 nights in a Std studio at AKV and 5 nights in a pool/garden 1BR at BWV. The goal is to try and get as many nights at BWV in a 1BR as I can with my meager 171 available points. I know my chances of a studio are slim to none and we prefer 1BRs anyway.

Basically, I'm holding 2 concurrent reservations as back ups. Obviously, I can't use both of them, but I know that October can be a tough time to get a studio at 7 months so I wanted to make sure I have one if I need it.

I wonder why people are so upset by walking when there are far more people that book at 11-months at their home resort with the intention of cancelling and getting something else at 7 months. I mean, GFV owners can get shut out of a studio at 11 months but what if a GFV owner books their studio with the intention of switching to PVB at 7 months? Nobody seems to have an issue with this, in fact, it's encouraged! I don't really see how it is any different than walking. Someone is temporarily tying up a room that they have no intention of using which causes someone else to either wait to book or use the waitlist. Just get on the waitlist (or stalk if you don't trust the waitlist) and if you are first on the list, then you have lost nothing. If you are 6th on the list, then the people walking didn't effect you anyway.

As I've stated, to me this is a question of philosophy to a degree. However, the difference is that, in effect, DVC is allowing members to book in advance of the 11 month reservation window stated in the POS. And those other issues you bring up do create a certain amount of problems for the system and is another vote toward having limits or fees to changes/cancelations.

 

[suebeelin]

Your making a lot of extra work for the Cast Members - some of them probably think it's wrong to do. (Hence the existance of this thread.)

If I had to walk a reservation for weeks, I couldn't be bothered, but I have nothing against people doing it - I'm on the "it's not unethical" side.

Just - as I've said before - be sure you HAVE to do it. If it does become more and more commonplace - they WILL find a way to take it away to the (likely) negative repercussions for all of us - if the result is all reservations have to be canceled to make changes, there will be a LOT of unhappy DVCers.

It's not unlike the free all day parking at the resorts and the late FP - as soon as people abused them to the point it made trouble for all, then they took it away. If this truly becomes commonplace, it will be stopped.

The times I've called there have been no wait at all, so not sure how much extra work I'm making (unless work means having to do something during their working hours).

In any case, I just checked BLT std 2bds, which I NEED for dec 3-11 (I have never walked before and don't intend to in the future bc I usually book 1bds). BLT std is completely booked all the way until December 2nd. As we all know, the first two weeks of December is the most vied for dvc season.

I'm ok with any new rule implementation that will put everyone on the same level playing field, especially since I've generally booked 1bds which are less vied for. But as it stands now, if I didn't walk, I wouldn't have gotten the much needed 2bd std for my trip, a trip which is very important to me.

I must be super-unethical...

I am an owner at AKV so I booked both a 1br std (for three nights) AND a standard studio (2 of the same 3) at the 11-month mark for our October trip. After I used BWV points to secure a 2BR std a BWV for the rest of my family, my plan is to try and get a std 1BR for us at the 7-month mark. If we can't get all 7 nights, then I have 2 other possibilities...
...3 nights in Std 1BR at AKV and 4 nights in Std 1BR at BWV...
...or 2 nights in a Std studio at AKV and 5 nights in a pool/garden 1BR at BWV. The goal is to try and get as many nights at BWV in a 1BR as I can with my meager 171 available points. I know my chances of a studio are slim to none and we prefer 1BRs anyway.

Basically, I'm holding 2 concurrent reservations as back ups. Obviously, I can't use both of them, but I know that October can be a tough time to get a studio at 7 months so I wanted to make sure I have one if I need it.

I wonder why people are so upset by walking when there are far more people that book at 11-months at their home resort with the intention of cancelling and getting something else at 7 months. I mean, GFV owners can get shut out of a studio at 11 months but what if a GFV owner books their studio with the intention of switching to PVB at 7 months? Nobody seems to have an issue with this, in fact, it's encouraged! I don't really see how it is any different than walking. Someone is temporarily tying up a room that they have no intention of using which causes someone else to either wait to book or use the waitlist. Just get on the waitlist (or stalk if you don't trust the waitlist) and if you are first on the list, then you have lost nothing. If you are 6th on the list, then the people walking didn't effect you anyway.

I agree with this sentiment. However, if they change the rules I'm ok with it too. However, that being said, I never walked before, and don't intend to in the future. This is our one time, which I'm glad we are doing bc it appears near impossible to get a 2bd std St BLT (given that it's all booked until December 2 thus far).

I've changed my plans plenty of times moving the dates a little due to ppls schedules, or canceling as needed.

Anyway, I do wish I didn't feel the need to walk this BLT std 2bd. But jeez, it's completely booked until December 2, so it tells you something.

 

[Sandisw]

To me, the solution might be to suspend the changing of start day without a cancel and rebook inside the home resort window...You can add days, up to 14, or 21 (then its a new reservation), but no changes for start date...this would prevent some of what is going on. Yes, for high point owners, this might not be an issue, but if the goal is to simply cut down on walking, then it is a good step solution without affecting those who really adjust dates for purposes other than walking.

I am definitely not in favor of a completely cancel and re-book as 11 months out and exact dates are sometimes a little off. I too like to wait for airfare and one the benefits of DVC is that I can adjust a day or two based on rates, which come out typically 9 months out. As an owner of VGF, trying to secure some of those hard to get studios, having to cancel and rebook vs. adjusting (if availability) would be a very harsh penalty. And, from where I live, airfare can be horrendously different by just a few days....when you are flying with 5 - 8 people, that amounts to alot.

 

[bobbiwoz]

It is because of our VGF ownership that I am most distressed about the walking. Like a lot of people apparently, we bought to go in December and because of point costs, we want a studio, either lake or standard view. Well, I booked this morning, . (What we got is no longer available.) DH and I are going on the Disboard Podcast cruise next December and we wanted to go to VGF either before the cruise or afterward. 2 years ago, I had to waitlist, and apparently some were walking because in a matter of days, the waitlist came through. I booked the weekdays we wanted, and will get the Friday and Saturday night elsewhere in a 1 bedroom where we can do laundry!

Bobbi