Is "Walking a reservation" unethical?

MJ6987

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2008
As a new DVC member soon to make their first reservation, I recently read about this practice on here.

I am a bit uncomfortable with this for a couple of reasons:

1. Reserving nights that I have no intention of using, causing other genuine bookers to be locked out and causing them stress and disappointment

2. Wasting Member Services staff time, that all DVC members pay for via their dues (including the ones I locked out above!)

Is this just me being silly? Do I just need to forget about others and play the game for my own needs?
 

mickeyman

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
How does that work? You book earlier than you need to stay ahead of the booking window?
 

beer dave

IMOLOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Other than a few categories, and a couple seasons, walking is really not necessary as per my experience.

Now I have to quick go book my BLT standard view studio for christmas 16.

Just kidding......
 
  • disneynutz

    DIS Veteran
    DIS Lifetime Sponsor
    Joined
    Dec 11, 2006
    As a new DVC member soon to make their first reservation, I recently read about this practice on here.

    I am a bit uncomfortable with this for a couple of reasons:

    1. Reserving nights that I have no intention of using, causing other genuine bookers to be locked out and causing them stress and disappointment

    2. Wasting Member Services staff time, that all DVC members pay for via their dues (including the ones I locked out above!)

    Is this just me being silly? Do I just need to forget about others and play the game for my own needs?
    I suppose that it's up to you. It isn't against the rules but it's a lot of work.

    :earsboy: Bill
     

    beer dave

    IMOLOL
    Joined
    Apr 30, 2011
    I suppose that it's up to you. It isn't against the rules but it's a lot of work.

    :earsboy: Bill
    Not that I am pro or con, but with the new chat tool on the website, it's not that difficult any more-- go on the website once a week and have an agent modify. Ties up less agent time too.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    In the old days, the reservation rule was that you could reserve 11 months (or 7) from your date of departure from WDW. A typical and allowed practice at that time when a high demand room/time was at issue was for a member to call 11 months from the day after the first night he actually wanted and reserve that night; the next day he would call and add the second night moving the departure date up one and continue that until he had all the nights he wanted. Thus, you could "game" the system back then. However, under the old system, those with more points than others did not have an advantage in that everybody had the same chance of getting a night 11 months out. Thus, the disadvantage existed only if someone choose not to walk a long reservation and actually wait until 11 months out from departure to try to reserve.

    The new, 11 months out from date arrival, system has been in place for many years now. I do not consider it necessarily "unethical" to walk. It is allowed, anybody can do it, and, in fact, I recall it took only about a day after the new system went into effect for someone on these boards to post the method of walking a reservation when you are less than 11 months out from date of arrival. However, unlike the old system those who have enough points to reserve 7 nights at once can start walking before those who only have enough points to reserve fewer than 7 nights. In that way, one could argue there is unfairness, and, if you think like Democrats, you can demand social change because the "rich" are being favored again, but I do not know what the solution is. The need for walking exists because there are some very high demand times and Disney created categories of rooms where the supply is limited but the demand for them is much higher than others. Reverting to the old system would eliminate the unfairness issue but trying to bar the practice in the new system would be difficult to enforce, e.g., suppose someone makes a 7 night reservation and then calls later to drop the first six nights and add six, MS claims it is improper walking, and the member says no it is not, because he was going to go on those prior dates but found out he will not be able to get off work until the new dates. What would happen in that situation and should we have MS being in any position of deciding what is or is not improper walking? I think not becaus eit would jsut foment furtgher disputes.

    As to wasting Member Services time resaulting in higher dues, that is not an issue. MS is funded in a way that dues do not rise based on on amounts spent for it. It receives (a) a $1 per member annual fee, plus (b) its two entities, the Buena Vista Trading Co., the designated company for handling trade-outs to non-DVC resorts and members of one resort reserving another resort at 7 months out, and Disney Vacation Club Management Co., the designated company for handling home resort reservations, get all the breakage income (rentals of rooms still open at 60 days out) above a small percentage that goes to offset dues, plus (c) DVCMC gets as a management fee a set percentage, 12% of the budgeted operations and capital reserve budgets for a resort, in dues annually. Those are the sources for funding MS operations and none of those amounts are affected by how much MS gets used by members.
     
    Last edited:

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    In the old days, the reservation rule was that you could reserve 11 months (or 7) from your date of departure from WDW. A typical and allowed practice at that time when a high demand room/time was at issue was for a member to call 11 months from the day after the first night he actually wanted and reserve that night; the next day he would call and add the second night moving the departure date up one and continue that until he had all the nights he wanted. Thus, you could "game" the system back then. However, under the old system, those with more points than others did not have an advantage in that everybody had the same chance of getting a night 11 months out. Thus, the disadvantage existed only if someone choose not to walk a long reservation and actually wait until 11 months out from departure to try to reserve.

    The new, 11 months out from date arrival, system has been in place for many years now. I do not consider it necessarily "unethical" to walk. It is allowed, anybody can do it, and, in fact, I recall it took only about a day after the new system went into effect for someone on these boards to post the method of walking a reservation when you are less than 11 months out from date of arrival. However, unlike the old system those who have enough points to reserve 7 nights at once can start walking before those who only have enough points to reserve fewer than 7 nights. In that way, one could argue there is unfairness, and, if you think like Democrats, you can demand social change because the "rich" are being favored again, but I do not know what the solution is. The need for walking exists because there are some very high demand times and Disney created categories of rooms where the supply is limited but the demand for them is much higher than others. Reverting to the old system would eliminate the unfairness issue but trying to bar the practice in the new system would be difficult to enforsce, e.g., suppose someone makes a 7 night reservation and then calls later to drop the first six nights and add six, MS claims it is improper walking, and the member says no it is not, because he was going to go on those prior dates but found out he will not be able to get off work until the new dates. What would happen in that situation and should we have MS being in any position of deciding what is or is not improper walking? I think not becaus eit would jsut foment furtgher disputes.
    There are things that they could do - they could put in a fee for a change to a reservation within 8 days of it first being made - though again - those "rich" enough to shake it off would shake it off. Or they could institute an eight day rule - you can change a reservation the day you make it (just in case there is an "oops") but you can't then change it for another eight days unless the reservation is less than six months out. (The chances that work throws you that curve ball the day after your eleven month window are not small enough that thinking this happens often is not believable - and the infrequently it does happen, well sometimes life isn't fair - sometimes people have to cancel after the 30 day mark, too - or miss their banking window because their parent died).

    Personally, I think its unethical, but I also think its the way it is - and if you are going to be pragmatic, it may need to be done from time to time.
     

    beer dave

    IMOLOL
    Joined
    Apr 30, 2011
    The advantage of having a larger reserve of points is not that great of an advantage-- the person with the lesser point bank just has to start walking earlier and modify more frequently-- It's still a guessing game on how far in the future you need to start...I'm sure some have already started their walk for christmas 16.....
     

    DenLo

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 3, 2009
    Ethical, is so subjective. It is legal. However, walking does remove rooms from the system so other members booking minutes behind you might be blocked from making a reservation. Sure those nights up later, but it might be too late for those that already are missing days in their own reservation. And it is a lot of work. It is the work that would keep me from ever doing it.
     
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    djohn06

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 25, 2013
    It's a free country. And walking is not illegal. If you feel the need, do it.

    I've picked up days after walkers let them go in the past. Just have to know the system and flow with it instead of against.

    Also, I have no idea what the democratic comment meant as far as walking...... Some people try to infuse politics anywhere possible. It's definitely not needed or warranted in this conversation.
     

    Dean

    DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    As a new DVC member soon to make their first reservation, I recently read about this practice on here.

    I am a bit uncomfortable with this for a couple of reasons:

    1. Reserving nights that I have no intention of using, causing other genuine bookers to be locked out and causing them stress and disappointment

    2. Wasting Member Services staff time, that all DVC members pay for via their dues (including the ones I locked out above!)

    Is this just me being silly? Do I just need to forget about others and play the game for my own needs?
    There are almost no situations where something is within the timeshare rules and allowed but unethical. IMO it's inappropriate and all changes should be a cancellation and rebooking but that's on DVC, not the members.
     

    beer dave

    IMOLOL
    Joined
    Apr 30, 2011
    There are almost no situations where something is within the timeshare rules and allowed but unethical. IMO it's inappropriate and all changes should be a cancellation and rebooking but that's on DVC, not the members.
    That would be terrible. People would be losing their entire reservation that they had for months because of a hiccup in their schedule. Flight gets changes, work schedule, school schedule, there are so many things that could cause someone to need to change their res by a couple days, and this way they would loose their BWV standard studio for a studio or a 1 bedroom at SSR. There would be outrage.
     

    ziravan

    Welcome Home
    Joined
    Apr 4, 2014
    1. Walking reservations.

    2. Throwaway rooms.

    3. GAC (before DAS)

    4. Booking multiple Anna/Elsa or 7DMT at 60 day booking window.

    5. Both adults getting ride swap passes in conjunction with fastpasses thereby creating more fastpasses.

    There are all types of inefficiencies in the system because it's a practical impossibility to make broad rules systems that fits all situations.

    Is it unethical to take advantage of the inefficiencies? The bottom line is that if you choose not to do so, you're giving an advantage to someone else and there is always someone else that will use the rules to their advantage.

    The better question: is it unethical/intolerable for my family to not use this rule and instead, let it be used against us?

    GAC is an example of the plain fact that Disney can and will change their rules if the exceptions start to distort the entire system.

    In the meantime, if it's a rule, then the loopholes are allowed. Or, looked at another way, unless or until walking reservations or other loopholes distort the system to the point Disney decides to change the rule, it is the way it is. You might say that if you want the rule changed, the best method to do so is to help overuse the loophole. Do your part to change reservation walking by walking reservations. Or sonething.
     

    Dean

    DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    That would be terrible. People would be losing their entire reservation that they had for months because of a hiccup in their schedule. Flight gets changes, work schedule, school schedule, there are so many things that could cause someone to need to change their res by a couple days, and this way they would loose their BWV standard studio for a studio or a 1 bedroom at SSR. There would be outrage.
    They already do this for almost every situation including different resorts and different room types or categories. IMO it's far more fair than holding time one doesn't plan to use or there's a good chance they won't. No one would be losing a reservation if they made what they needed and not something they didn't need/plan to use. As people are now learning, there is a downside in that there is often no availability due to this situation. It also decreases calls and interactions with MS, saving money on the fees as well.
     

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