Is this Racial ?

[susieh]

Consider this if you will..

When trying to decide who got the short straw for a job that had to be done but no one wanted, a manager (trying to keep it light hearted) used the first 2 lines of the old nursery rhyme 'eenie meenie mynie mo...' as he went round the team members.

A short while later he was summoned to his bosses office and told he was being reported for racial abuse and may be dismissed.

Reasonable punishment? Or not?

 

[emily1982]

You know what, i remember saying this rhyme when i was in my teens infront of my dad and i honestly didn't link it to being racist and the reason behind the rhyme. Think its abit OTT to give a formal warning, he wasnt being directly racist to a certain person there.

 

[jen_uk]

I don't think its racist and I think it was an over reaction the way it was handled. However, I googled it and apparently it does link with racism, a few years ago an American airline was sued because a worker used the rhyme in a joke with some passengers!!

 

[natalielongstaff]

oh dear me ! no its not racist.....in that context

 

[wideeyes]

The rhyme can certainly be racist and wouldn't say it, even the tiger version and would tell my DD to use another rhyme even though now the kids use the word tiger. I think it should be pointed out the manager that the rhyme is racist however I don't think he should be disciplined.

 

[thelittlemermaid83]

I don't think its racist, then again i cant even remember the whole of the rhyme lol.

 

[Lizzybear]

To be honest I didn't know it could be perceived as racist until I googled it now and read the wiki.. I'm sure many others could say the same. It's not particularly obvious so I think the threat of dismissal is a bit extreme.

 

[higgy66]

I would say it depends if he actually said the lines which contain the racist word. You say he said the first 2 lines?

If he did actually say that 2nd line then I'm sorry it is racist. If people continue to say these things it is still seen as acceptable and it clearly isn't.

My children don't know that rhyme as it's no longer said - I didn't know there was a tiger version.

However, I think he should have just been made aware of his "mistake" and that should be the end of it. Obviously somebody has been offended so in an ideal world the two people should be able to discuss this openly together and that be then end of the matter. If it happened again then fair enough - consequences made.

 

[wideeyes]

To be honest I didn't know it could be perceived as racist until I googled it now and read the wiki.. I'm sure many others could say the same. It's not particularly obvious so I think the threat of dismissal is a bit extreme.

I just read it on wiki and the version I remember from childhood is the Kipling version, hence why I think it is racist. I thought the tiger one was a later version to make it acceptable and for me that wouldn't off changed the original context of the rhyme.

 

[carolfoy]

unfortunately most childrens traditional rhymes, fables and fairytales have their roots in less 'politically correct' societies,
By bearing in mind that the language was common to use then and not deemed racially motivated you can argue that the rhyme is not racist. In this day and age that just doesn't cut it, any rhyme, nickname or adjective that someone finds offensive to themselves, (get me, I'm Cornish and couldn't care less about my straw chewing, tractor driving, surf bum stereotype!) is unacceptable.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

Political correctness in this country is getting beyond a joke. It is ridiculious.

I am sure if he did say that word(which by the way I could not bring myself to say) he did not mean it.

 

[wideeyes]

unfortunately most childrens traditional rhymes, fables and fairytales have their roots in less 'politically correct' societies,
By bearing in mind that the language was common to use then and not deemed racially motivated you can argue that the rhyme is not racist.

I would say that it is historical context that makes the use of the word in this rhyme racist. I would agree that the use of the word is not always racist on its own for example its used in Huck Finn because that was how people spoke then, however catching someone by the toe until they scream makes reminds me of slavery and violence . I have probably read to many slave narratives which I had to read for uni.

 

[mandymouse]

I think the only way I see this, is that I have never told that rhyme using that word, and as my girls are 18 & nearly 16, I have been aware for a long time not to use it. So I guess that deep down I have always found the word offensive, even in a nursery rhyme

 

[Grumpy John]

This country has gone to the dogs. Nothing can be said without someone taking offence. What happened to free speech?

It would be interesting to see who actually complained or was it a good old tittle tattle to get someone in trouble

Sorry but the whole episode is totally pathetic!

 

[disneyhockeymad]

When I was little (which wasnt really that long ago) and when we were in the playground we always used to use that rhyme with the word Tiger in it. We didn't, and indeed I didn't until I wiki-ed it about 2minutes ago, even know that another racist version of this rhyme existed.

Surely if your boss used the first line only, and used it in the sense purely to select someone and not in anyways hinting at being racist, which it looks like he definately wasnt then there is no problem with this. It's PC gone wrong, and it's not doing anyone any favours.

 

[Queenie]

When I was little (which wasnt really that long ago) and when we were in the playground we always used to use that rhyme with the word Tiger in it. We didn't, and indeed I didn't until I wiki-ed it about 2minutes ago, even know that another racist version of this rhyme existed.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had no idea at all about the other version. I had to go and wiki it to find out what this thread was even about.

If the guy used the offensive 2nd line then that's definately not appropriate in any situation. If it was the tiger version then I'd have to say it's very debatable whether he should even have been diciplined. If he was young then he may, like me and Laura above, have been completely unaware that there was even a racial connotation to the rhyme.

 

[susieh]

The guy concerned is my husband. Yes he did use the second line - yes we learnt it as children and so that version was the one in his head. Yes he apologised as soon as he realised he had caused her offence. She refuses to accept the apology, she wants a disciplinery hearing so that's what she is getting - tomorrow.

He may lose his job, his reputation, everything.

He is not racist - he sponsors a child in the sudan - he has Indian friends (was asked to be 'an honourary woman guest' at an Indian friend's Hindu wedding) - but all that is ignored because someone in an open office environment overheard what was intended to be a lighthearted joke where the actual rhyme used was irrelevant.

In my opinion SHE is the racist - against a white person because he accidentally used an old fashioned out of date saying and then immediately apologised for doing so

 

[Claire L]

I agree times are changing and not necessarily for the better. We do not have reset switches and therefore what we learnt years ago remains often imbedded and hidden away but surfacing on odd occasions.

I am sure your husband meant no offence as he immediately apologised and I am sorry he is being treated so harshly, when often more important things are ignored

Hope all goes well.

Claire

 

[Cyrano]

The rhyme can certainly be racist and wouldn't say it, even the tiger version and would tell my DD to use another rhyme even though now the kids use the word tiger. I think it should be pointed out the manager that the rhyme is racist however I don't think he should be disciplined.

This was my thoughts also. Most employers spend a while telling managers what they should and should not say. But it is difficult to remember what someone else will take offence at

 

[wilma-bride]

I'm sorry but I am in agreement with those that think there is no cause for the use of the word he used, regardless of the context in which it was used.

To me, it certainly has racist connotations and I think your husband ought to have thought carefully before he used that word, especially knowing that there was somebody present who may be offended by it.

I do think we have to be very careful what we say nowadays but, personally, I don't see anything wrong with taking the time to think before you speak.