Is this math problem 3rd grade appropriate?

[castleview]

So, in the past when you didn't like how math was taught, it was because the methods weren't the best. But now, when you don't like how math is taught, it's Common Core and the "edu-peneurs"?



You don't know anything about me, and how far or close I am to the classroom. If you want to ask you can, if you want to assume a million inaccurate things about me, go ahead. I'm not the one who comes out looking bad when you do that.

In the past? The only other math program I knew of that was lousy was whole math which did not affect my kids. I had no problem with my older daughters' math curriculum. Are you referring to me hating to do math with my mother?

And yes, I will blame the edupeneurs for the time wasted in classrooms. They are the reason high stakes testing rules the classroom, legislators ignore the value of teachers, and public education is under attack.

If you want to explain your background and what you're up to now, I'll listen. But you immediately took the attitude that you knew better than parents and teachers and kind of put you in line with the shady people who are somehow seen as experts in education. Not saying you are shady of course, but I have obviously heard that mantra many times. Feel free to prove me wrong if you have the time.

 

[jodifla]

http://mrsmomblog.com/2013/10/02/how-common-core-is-slowly-changing-my-child/

Castleview, if you didn't see this blog that went viral, you should take a look. A teacher and mom is having the same experience with her child, who now is shutting down. SO many commenters say the same thing.

As others have mentioned who have gone through the testing of the Common Core monstrosity, most kids fail the state assessments. Then they take away all the kids electives, and pile on more Common COre nonsense on them.

 

[Hrhpd]

The word problem we are talking about…he knows how to subtract. But having the kids subtract double digits (with possible borrowing) and not allowing them to line up the problem isn't right.

My kid is 23. He was doing math this way in 3rd grade 17 years ago.

He did fine. He is now an extremely well paid engineer, having gone through all the math classes in college.

Why do you want to dumb down math? It really is ok to stretch the mind a bit to do double digit mental math. Most third graders I know (I work in an elementary school) could easily handle this problem.

 

[jodifla]

My kid is 23. He was doing math this way in 3rd grade 17 years ago.

He did fine. He is now an extremely well paid engineer, having gone through all the math classes in college.

Why do you want to dumb down math? It really is ok to stretch the mind a bit to do double digit mental math. Most third graders I know (I work in an elementary school) could easily handle this problem.

Again, read the blog of the mom above. She's a teacher, and says her own kid and the kids she teachers are suffering with this curriculum.

As do many of the 1000 plus commenters on the blog.

As does Castleview with her son, and as do I with my own son. This curriculum is NOT good for many kids.

 

[castleview]

My kid is 23. He was doing math this way in 3rd grade 17 years ago.

He did fine. He is now an extremely well paid engineer, having gone through all the math classes in college.

Why do you want to dumb down math? It really is ok to stretch the mind a bit to do double digit mental math. Most third graders I know (I work in an elementary school) could easily handle this problem.

Oh you haven't met me. I'm all about raising the standards - just ask the teachers of my older kids The problem is my kid wasn't given the proper foundation because math facts were not a priority in the previous grades.

My husband is a decently paid physics teacher and a former well paid engineer (more paperwork as he went up the ladder made it more boring). He knows math and thinks this curriculum is ridiculous too. You are still looking at one example that was sort of taken out of context and missing the rest of what I stated.

 

[castleview]

http://mrsmomblog.com/2013/10/02/how-common-core-is-slowly-changing-my-child/

Castleview, if you didn't see this blog that went viral, you should take a look. A teacher and mom is having the same experience with her child, who now is shutting down. SO many commenters say the same thing.

As others have mentioned who have gone through the testing of the Common Core monstrosity, most kids fail the state assessments. Then they take away all the kids electives, and pile on more Common COre nonsense on them.

I heard about this. Thank you. I know it's going to be frustrating to read.

 

[Hrhpd]

OP here everyone. Typing from my I-phone so forgive me any mistakes. As some have eluded to, yes I am stressed. I apologize for confusing everyone by throwing out every example that popped into my head after i mentioned the original - didnt mean to jumble them together. My son has been struggling with math this year and while he does well on the chapter tests, getting to that point is sheer torture and he is starting to hate math. His school has had three curriculums since he was in kindergarten and I don't think he was ever given a good foundation. I can't tell you how many methods I've seen that made me ask "why are they doing it that way?". Instead of teaching the "classic" way, they were taught the latest round-about way thàt did not strengthen the original concept. Plus, it's very "jumpy", if you will. Even one of his teachers said that "the theory was to introduce kids to future concepts, but without the background we are just making them feel like they that aren't too smart". It's very frustrating when I'm trying to do my part at hone when there doesn't seem to be a particular ladder they are working up.

Your child is struggling in math, so you want to kill the author of the curriculum?

Different kids have struggled with subjects since the dawn of education. It is NOT the curriculum's fault.

Rather than placing blame, I would suggest doing what earlier parents did, and that is get a tutor.

The way our 3rd graders would do this problem using mental math since there is no borrowing

89-54
80-50=30
9-4=5
answer=35

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

In the past? The only other math program I knew of that was lousy was whole math which did not affect my kids. I had no problem with my older daughters' math curriculum. Are you referring to me hating to do math with my mother?

I'm referring to this quote:

The standards are there, but the methods for reaching them are not the best. But thanks again for pointing out how out of touch edu-peneurs are.

Which you used to explain why your child didn't learn to subtract in second grade. I read it as meaning that the standards were there in the past, because it wouldn't make sense for you to start an entire thread about how awful the CC standards are if you actually like the CC standards.

You also wrote the following about your child's previous math education, which again lead me to think that you weren't happy about the programs used previously:

His school has had three curriculums since he was in kindergarten and I don't think he was ever given a good foundation. I can't tell you how many methods I've seen that made me ask "why are they doing it that way?". Instead of teaching the "classic" way, they were taught the latest round-about way thàt did not strengthen the original concept. Plus, it's very "jumpy", if you will. Even one of his teachers said that "the theory was to introduce kids to future concepts, but without the background we are just making them feel like they that aren't too smart".

The problem is my kid wasn't given the proper foundation because math facts were not a priority in the previous grades.

 

[Hrhpd]

Yes, it makes every lesson intensely verbal. So if you are weak verbally but good at math calculation, now you are struggling in reading AND math, with almost no way to catch up. It's robbed a lot of kids of their most successful classes.

It's going to be good for a subset of kids, and leave others way, way, way behind. r

It was just 5 years ago that Everyday Math was the godsend for American students, and now that's being trashcanned because a "spiral" curriculum is a disaster for a lot of learners.

Back in the day of the dinosaurs, our school offered a choice of two curriculums, the regular one and Core Knowledge (a spiral curriculum). The Core curriculum always had a waiting list.

The Core kids were always farther ahead, always did better on testing, always were far more solid on concept. In fact, after 10 years of dual curriculums and the Core kids consistently doing better, the traditional curriculum parents were so jealous, they fought tooth and nail (and won) to get rid of the Core curriculum.

I will agree that all kids learn differently and that a single curriculum is not going to benefit all kids. But it has always been that way.

 

[nugov2]

I haven't read any posts yet, but my 3rd grade dd just solved this problem in her head very quickly. After she solved it I asked her if she knew what domestic meant and she said well if one is other countries they must mean over here in the US. So there you go. I see nothing wrong with the problem at all. My dd never heard that word domestically, but she used her logical reasoning skills to figure out if one was other countries it must mean here.

 

[castleview]

Your child is struggling in math, so you want to kill the author of the curriculum?

Different kids have struggled with subjects since the dawn of education. It is NOT the curriculum's fault.

Rather than placing blame, I would suggest doing what earlier parents did, and that is get a tutor.

The way our 3rd graders would do this problem using mental math since there is no borrowing

89-54
80-50=30
9-4=5
answer=35

Again, read more. I stated that I was seeking intervention for him. The school year is only a few months old and we're trying to pin point the issue before I get him a tutor. And I will place blame for kids falling through the cracks and being exploited by a wrong curriculum on certain individuals. It sounds like you work for a school system that is resisting the latest and greatest. Be happy and be careful before you judge.

 

[kirstenb1]

True, but few involve words at/near the limit of one's vocabulary, and even fewer require responses phrased in sentence form with explanations of the reasoning used (both of which are standard requirements in 3rd/4th grade math around here). I'm not saying word problems should be thrown out, but we learned just fine with problems about Bobby's apples and Jane's cookies rather than foreign and domestic post. Not everything needs to be a reading and vocab lesson. Let math just be math.

Amen!!! It'd be just dreadful for children who have difficulty with reading/writing find some victory in a pure math problem. I think we go too far with the cross-referencing in education. (as a really decent reader/writer student, but mediocre in math, this would have been right up my alley).

 

[castleview]

I haven't read any posts yet, but my 3rd grade dd just solved this problem in her head very quickly. After she solved it I asked her if she knew what domestic meant and she said well if one is other countries they must mean over here in the US. So there you go. I see nothing wrong with the problem at all. My dd never heard that word domestically, but she used her logical reasoning skills to figure out if one was other countries it must mean here.

You just hit on the head what's wrong with the curriculum my kid is doing. It's all about prepping for the test with lots of unnecessary steps leaving little to no room to use critical thinking.

 

[castleview]

I'm referring to this quote:



Which you used to explain why your child didn't learn to subtract in second grade. I read it as meaning that the standards were there in the past, because it wouldn't make sense for you to start an entire thread about how awful the CC standards are if you actually like the CC standards.

You also wrote the following about your child's previous math education, which again lead me to think that you weren't happy about the programs used previously:

I believe that I stated we were dealing with several "latest and greatests"

 

[nugov2]

Mental math is done in your head; there is no lining up the problem.


This is an easy question for 3rd grade.

I know...I watched my dd (and could read her lips while she was doing it). She counted up from 54 to 84 in 10's...so 64, 74, 84 and then said 5 more to 89....out loud to me: ok it's 35. I mean if we think there is a problem in teaching our children simple math solved mentally no wonder our country is failing academically, I am confused by the outrage

And the vocab, like pp have stated context clues...it is good for them to have to think about things. I am shocked that people are this up in arms.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I believe that I stated we were dealing with several "latest and greatests"

Some of which were used before the Common Core was rolled out, right? Those previous latest and greatests were what I was referring to when I said that I thought you had been disappointed with math curriculum in the past.

I am still really confused as to whether you are upset about the standards (the Common Core) or the curriculum your district has selected to teach them. Can you clarify?

 

[jodifla]

Back in the day of the dinosaurs, our school offered a choice of two curriculums, the regular one and Core Knowledge (a spiral curriculum). The Core curriculum always had a waiting list.

The Core kids were always farther ahead, always did better on testing, always were far more solid on concept. In fact, after 10 years of dual curriculums and the Core kids consistently doing better, the traditional curriculum parents were so jealous, they fought tooth and nail (and won) to get rid of the Core curriculum.

I will agree that all kids learn differently and that a single curriculum is not going to benefit all kids. But it has always been that way.

This doesn't make a lot of sense. What school district would get rid of a popular curriculum that all the kids were doing well in?

(Not that most districts don't do bizarre things.)

Growing up 40 years ago, we always had multiple math curriculums. That offered everybody the chance to find the right math fit.

 

[nugov2]

Yep. Common Core Crapola!

Actually it isn't CC crapola it's YOUR DISTRICTS CRAPOLA. CC doesn't state how to implement the standards, it just give the standards. It is the incompetent administrators and most likely teachers who are implementing the curriculum to teach it. In our district they have the teachers/administration at every grade level working together for an entire year to develop the curriculum to best fit their students needs. So they are either both to blame for not knowing their population of students and what will work for them or just the administration for just randomly picking curriculum without any teacher input.

I have stated this on other CC threads. I get your venting OP. If things do not make sense in the classroom and the majority are failing something needs to changes. You will not get any change by complaining online and then doing nothing else(though everyone needs to vent). Now take this fire/passion and find other parents and start speaking out at board meetings. I have seen first hand CC implemented in a successful way. I have seen my dd do crazy 10 step problems, but guess what...when I taught 3rd grade almost 10 years ago we did them in the district I taught and it had nothing to do with CC. There are methods that do this that are viable teaching methods if carried out properly. I seriously don't get the CC hate...I should really be the people implementing the CC that get the hate because if you actually read the standards they are not unreasonable. On all of these CC threads I have seen tons of districts with awful curriculum being implemented, but I have yet to see a single unreasonable standard posted.

 

[nugov2]

Some of which were used before the Common Core was rolled out, right? Those previous latest and greatests were what I was referring to when I said that I thought you had been disappointed with math curriculum in the past.

I am still really confused as to whether you are upset about the standards (the Common Core) or the curriculum your district has selected to teach them. Can you clarify?

I think the fact that the PP's son has been exposed to so many different curriculums in such a short period is proof of incompetent leadership in your district and the true problem behind why the students are not able to excel. It is districts like yours causing major problems with the academic success of our country. They cut and run and then cut and run every year with a new "magic bullet" curriculum that will get the students to succeed, but what actually happens is they cannot succeed when the building blocks that should be in place are constantly changing. Again this is a problem at your district though not with any standards. I would be advocating big time for a change at the board meetings because that is unfair to the students to constantly changing things year after year..

 

[Ceila]

I've been reading the "Common Core is evil" threads with interest. I don't believe I've seen anyone who dislikes it point to any one of the actual standards and explain what is wrong with it (and I even linked to the standards web site itself in one post). Perhaps I missed it. Mostly, I've seen complainers who do not seem to be able to differentiate between CC standards and their district's curriculum. Or, if they are called out on that, they resort to blaming "big business" for the poor quality curriculum that their district wrote or purchased instead of giving even a single example of a CC standard that they are opposed to.

FTR, I haven't yet decided my opinion on CC. I do think that there are some very good parts of it, though.