Is this legal for DVC to do?

[diesel]

thanks for the quote. That was one of the things I was looking for so that when I called Accounting I would be aware of what the DVC rules are. So many times I've just skimmed through the by-laws and didn't pay much attention. I guess my thread is just a reminder to some of us who aren't aware off all of the rules. And don't worry BIL is going to contact Accounting bright and early Monday to give DVC his credit card info to clear this mess up. I'm just happy this wasn't some dead beat relative that I would have to pay for!

 

[MiaSRN62]

Nothing specifically as what you mention has happened to us before diesel and I believe you plan on totally owning up to the bill. But we have experienced general cc mix-ups in wdw before. Once at POR we had an approximate $1,200 bill after a 10 day stay. The first approx $600 was billed to our cc immediately, but it was almost a month later before the second approx $600 showed up ? I had made several calls to disney about this and they couldn't explain it ?

More recently, after a stay at POP Century in Feb with some girl friends of mine, I experienced another cc mishap. We had 2 rooms rented under my name. When we checked in, we specified who was going to which room. My friends put down a cc and requested charging privleges while I did not. All my friend's charges went onto my cc (the one I had paid the rooms with a month prior ?!). Took about a week to get everything switched over. My friend's bill of about $800 went on my cc for that week or so though.

I wish you luck getting this all straightened out and I do think you should have been contacted by phone/mail or something prior to having a "hold" placed on your account. Your situation makes me seriously doubt we'll ever rent to anyone but close friends/family.

 

[bicker]

I'm just wondering, can you not indicate on the reservation that there can be no charges to the room?

Me too. This is an important question for us to get an answer to.

 

[dizfanz]

I agree with you Diesel. This does not sound right. While I understand that when I rent my points out I am responsible for the condition of the unit. I can accept that risk. What risk I do not accept is that I may have to pay for someone's dinner bill, Mickey T-shirt, beers at the Rose and Crown Pub, etc... That should be Disney's problem for not charging for those services. That should have nothing to due with my points usage. I suspect there is really no grounds for DVC to hold up a reservation you are trying to make. Legally, I would say as an owner, you are responsible maybe for your unit, but certainly not for anything a guest has charged.

 

[bicker]

Uh, your post made me go back and read the quoted portion of the bylaws, quoted by PamOKW, above. It seems pretty definitive that we explicitly agreed to allow DVC to make us responsible for unpaid charges by our renters. Are you reading it differently than I am?

 

[MiaSRN62]

I'm just wondering, can you not indicate on the reservation that there can be no charges to the room?

I wonder as well. And even if they did tell me they could arrange this I have to wonder if I'd put full faith into them actually carrying this out ? I see what happened to me at POP. I specifically stated I wanted no charges to my room and they put all my friend's charges on my cc ? Have to wonder how much human error occurs in these situations ?

 

[bicker]

Good point, Maria. And without any physical evidence of such a directive, there's no way to prove that you made such a directive. I'd think it best, assuming DVC would be willing, to get all such assurances in writing, in advance, rather than risk incurring a dispute that would stem from such a gaff.

 

[Muushka]

This situation is just not right. Being allowed to charge a credit card without authorization. I can understand room damages, but when someone leaves CC information and the resort either chooses to ignore it or is just too stupid to be bothered to actually listen to what someone is telling them.

Reminds me of the time I bought 1 yard of material (at $4 a yard) and it rang up at 6 cents. I told the cashier that it was impossible, and she said "nope, that's right". Not sure who got stuck with that problem, but it sure makes you wonder how the heck these people can get dressed in the AM.

I just told my husband that the next time I wanted to rent out some points to remind me of this pathetic thread.

OP Please let us know how this is resolved. I know your BIL will pay and that is not the point. The point is that the hotel screwed up and you (almost) got stuck with the bill.

 

[abbysmema]

In May I rented a villa for my family and a studio for my sister's family at SSR. At check-in my sister gave her credit card information for charging purposes. I believe it was explained to us that they would have to charge everything to my card and then would credit my account and put the charge onto my sister's card. This is exactly what they did do. At checkout my card showed the charge and then the credit. My sister ended up with the charges she made on her credit card in the end. It's a crazy system but it worked out fine.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

Uh, your post made me go back and read the quoted portion of the bylaws, quoted by PamOKW, above. It seems pretty definitive that we explicitly agreed to allow DVC to make us responsible for unpaid charges by our renters. Are you reading it differently than I am?

If you're just reading that quote then it seems pretty vague to me. If there is more to it, I'm not sure. I would think that covers the renter being responsible for everything that is expressly covered by the bylaws. I don't think they can blanket everything that happens while the people are staying at the resort. I never read the whole bylaws, but is there anything in the contract about room charges specifically? Charging back to the room seems like a contract that Disney enters into between two parties at check-in. (Which is why you sign the little piece of paper authorizing it) Why should we assume the responsibility for a contract that Disney makes with a non-owner, unless it is specifically laid out in the bylaws. The question as I see it is, how could you fight it, and would it be worth it. I would rather get rid of this 'perk' at DVC resorts and carry one extra wafer-thin card in my pocket in the parks, than risk getting burned by this system the way it is now.

 

[Chuck S]

If I would rather get rid of this 'perk' at DVC resorts and carry one extra wafer-thin card in my pocket in the parks, than risk getting burned by this system the way it is now.

Remember, we are dealing with several operating companies. DVC/DVD leases the land from WDW. WDW holds DVC responsible for for debts their members or their guests incur, no matter why it did not process properly. DVC in turn, holds the individual owner responsible if their guests or renters accumulate a bill.

Believe me, I'm sure Disney lawyers have dotted their "i"s on these contracts to hold the various parties responsible. And we agreed to it when we signed.

As far as wanting to get rid of the "perk" only for DVC resorts because you don't want to get "burned", there are ways to protect yourself...you could simply chose NOT to rent out your points, or have wording in the rental contract that the renters are responsible for any room charges and you have the right to file actions against them if DVC holds you responsible for any bills they incur. You could also require a refundable deposit (though I doubt many renters would agree to it.)

 

[NJOYURLIFE]

Wow! I have no problem taking responsibiliy for the unit itself and would accept that as a risk in renting...but this info really ups the risks.

 

[toesmom]

That really cancels my idea of ever renting out points if I am stuck with someone's debt (especially a perfect stranger). What if they damage the room in some way, and it is only detected after they leave? How would I ever recoup the funds after the fact?

Well we will just transfer points out to DVC members if we ever have any left over....

Sorry this happened to you, and thanks for posting the information so that others become aware of what could possibly happen.

 

[JimMIA]

On the question of responsibility -- the offering statement includes:

"All renters and exchangers must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes, and the renting Owners will be responsible for the acts or omissions of their renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Owners to use a reserved Vacation Home."

Pam, thanks for posting this, because it made me go back and reconsider my earlier comments. Having done so, my interpretation of the above quote is exactly the opposite of DVC's position.

OP is certainly responsible for any acts or omissions by BIL or anyone else he let use a room. But BIL didn't commit any acts or ommissions. In fact, he did just the opposite! He provided his own credit card, with specific instructions that all incidental charges during his stay were to be charged to the card. He did everything any reasonable guest could do to insure that all charges were paid.

DVC is the cause of this error. It was their omission - their failure to appropriately charge the card provided - that caused this problem, NOT any act or omission by the guest.

As owners, we are certainly responsible for what our guests do. But we cannot be held responsible for what DVC does or does not do. DVC's actions or failures are their bad -- not ours.

BIL certainly needs to pay the bill - and I'm sure he will. But I don't think the language in the offering statement permits DVC to shift responsibility for their mistakes to the DVC owner. I think they acted improperly -- not maliciously I'm sure, but certainly improperly.

I am also appalled that DVC would further compound their screw-up by tying up OP's entire account without even the courtesy of a phone call or letter. That is way beyond sloppy.

Can you imagine the problems this would have caused if OP had rented to a stranger??? I can just see going back to a person you don't even know, months later, and telling them you'd like for them to send you a check for $1,500 so you can make your own reservation!

 

[bicker]

No offense but I think your interpretation is off-target. Time will tell. It'll be interesting to see how this issue gets resolved. I hope the OP lets us know.

 

[Pa@okw95]

Memberships are suppose to be for members only. If you let someone use your membership either as a guest or renting you should be aware that you are liable. Having said that this sounds like a mistake to me, I am assuming your brother in law gave them his credit card, the problem with that is his credit card probably did not match either the reservation or membership name so they use the one they had on record. Keep in mind also the person checking in must have $1500 available so DVC can put a hold on their account, if he did not then they may have used the next card available which was yours. All hotels do this without the customer knowing it as a general rule. They want to be able to get their money for the charges you make so they put a hold on it.

 

[vascubaguy]

Pam, thanks for posting this, because it made me go back and reconsider my earlier comments. Having done so, my interpretation of the above quote is exactly the opposite of DVC's position.

OP is certainly responsible for any acts or omissions by BIL or anyone else he let use a room. But BIL didn't commit any acts or ommissions. In fact, he did just the opposite! He provided his own credit card, with specific instructions that all incidental charges during his stay were to be charged to the card. He did everything any reasonable guest could do to insure that all charges were paid.

DVC is the cause of this error. It was their omission - their failure to appropriately charge the card provided - that caused this problem, NOT any act or omission by the guest.

As owners, we are certainly responsible for what our guests do. But we cannot be held responsible for what DVC does or does not do. DVC's actions or failures are their bad -- not ours.

BIL certainly needs to pay the bill - and I'm sure he will. But I don't think the language in the offering statement permits DVC to shift responsibility for their mistakes to the DVC owner. I think they acted improperly -- not maliciously I'm sure, but certainly improperly.

I am also appalled that DVC would further compound their screw-up by tying up OP's entire account without even the courtesy of a phone call or letter. That is way beyond sloppy.

Can you imagine the problems this would have caused if OP had rented to a stranger??? I can just see going back to a person you don't even know, months later, and telling them you'd like for them to send you a check for $1,500 so you can make your own reservation!

I totally agree with your interpretation here. To think about this in other terms of real estate, if you rent out a house, the renter can't go out and charge things with the house being collateral. Nor can the owner of that home be held responsible for the debts of the renter. The resort allowing guests to charge items using the room card is an agreement that requires additional approval (which that guest/renter I do not believe is supposed to be able to authorize since it is not technically their reservation).

If I were renting, I would definately make sure to tell DVC to include a note on the reservation about not allowing room charges. I might would even followup with a call to the resort the day of the reservation to make sure they are aware that no room charging is permitted.

 

[msdis]

This doesn't sound right. If your BIL was using his room key card to charge everything back to the hotel bill he would have seen the actual individual charges on the printed invoice at the end of his stay. The individual charges would match the receipts he had from the shops or restaurants. To say that he saw nothing on his bill is very strange. Did he show the desk clerk his receipts?

Maybe you should ask your BIL if you could see his actual printed hotel invoice.

There could have been a glitch in the system which they straightened out later, like charging the wrong room, but that doesn't explain why they wouldn't have put the charges through on you BIL's credit card on file.

It just doesn't add up.

I agree

 

[JimMIA]

What if they damage the room in some way, and it is only detected after they leave?

There may be a difference of opinion about OP's responsibility in the specific case of his BIL's credit card not being charged, but there is NO doubt in anyone's mind about room damage. The DVC owner is responsible, period.

How would I ever recoup the funds after the fact?

You would write the renter a letter and ask them to reimburse you.

You could put some language in a contract, but unless the damage was a LOT of money, the legal expenses would outweigh the loss...so the contract would be unenforceable. Not that it wouldn't be legally sufficient; it would just be a poor business decision to try to enforce it.

I agree with ChuckS, the only real way to protect yourself from this eventuality is to require a large cash deposit...and that ain't happening.

Well we will just transfer points out to DVC members if we ever have any left over....

That's my plan, too. It's easier and better for both parties.

 

[Disneyrsh]

If this was really a problem, wouldn't we have heard about this particular abuse more?

Lots of people rent out points-when we did before we bought in, I definitely used my room card for charging and was asked for my credit card, never in the transaction did the owner's name come up, and I really doubt they have his card on file somewhere because he certainly wasn't on vacation with us!

Something's not adding up...